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Diverge 2018

Old 06-18-17, 03:37 AM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by wheelhot View Post
Not sure if you saw my post on Page 3, but the 2018 Carbon Diverge has the same wheelbase as 2017 Diverge, with the exception of 2018 Alu Diverge being 3mm longer.

Both the Carbon and Alu has a longer chainstay than the 2017 models, but that is expected due to the increase tyre clearance.
I'm looking at aluminum at a 54cm since that's what I ride. The '17 alu chainstay is 415mm and wheelbase is 1001mm. 2018 is 424/1007.
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Old 06-18-17, 04:58 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
I'm looking at aluminum at a 54cm since that's what I ride. The '17 alu chainstay is 415mm and wheelbase is 1001mm. 2018 is 424/1007.
Okay, I just looked at all the wheelbase sizes and it seems the difference between '17 and '18 model increases the smaller your frame goes.

The smallest frame wheelbase for '18 starts at 1000mm up to 1053mm, whereas '17, it's 989mm to 1054mm.

So as you can see, at the largest size, the wheelbase are identical and Spesh probably has to have a minimum 1000mm on the smallest size in order to accommodate the increase tyre clearance.
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Old 06-18-17, 05:22 AM
  #103  
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On the topic of welds

E5 vs DSW

Headtube
2018 Diverge


2017 Diverge


Seat Tube Junction
2018 Diverge


2017 Allez DSW


Chainstay (Brake side)
2018 Diverge


2017 Diverge


The only missing is the downtube as I can't find any photos of 2018 Diverge downtube.

So looks like the new Diverge has a nicer welds on chainstay side, Seat Tube junction looks the same, and uglier headtube in comparison to DSW

Summary in terms of looks

Headtube = 2017 Diverge DSW
Downtube = ??? (probably DSW, but if I recall the 2017 Diverge DSW downtube doesn't look as nice as Allez DSW)
Seattube = Equal
Chainstay = 2018 Diverge E5
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Old 06-18-17, 07:35 AM
  #104  
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Which model is that pic of the 2017 Diverge headtube? I thought the only DSW was the Elite, which only came in black with red logo.
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Old 06-18-17, 07:46 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by curttard View Post
Which model is that pic of the 2017 Diverge headtube? I thought the only DSW was the Elite, which only came in black with red logo.
Nope, 2017 DSW comes in orange as well.

In the images above, the first images are 2018 Diverge, whereas the bottom are Diverge DSW (with the exception of the seattube which is Allez DSW)
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Old 06-18-17, 08:00 AM
  #106  
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Hmm, considering I plan to upgrade to 105 and CG-R, guess I need to speak to my Spesh dealer to see how much the adjusted price will be and if the Comp E5 the right way to go or Sport 9r or better yet, straight Comp 9r since it already comes with 105 and CG-R.
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Old 06-18-17, 08:13 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by wheelhot View Post
Nope, 2017 DSW comes in orange as well.

In the images above, the first images are 2018 Diverge, whereas the bottom are Diverge DSW (with the exception of the seattube which is Allez DSW)

I was referring to this pic:

Originally Posted by wheelhot View Post

2017 Diverge
Color doesn't match the Elite DSW Diverge.
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Old 06-18-17, 08:16 AM
  #108  
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Oh my bad, that's probably the 2016 Diverge
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Old 06-18-17, 08:29 AM
  #109  
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Does anyone know what these Axis wheelsets weigh? A guy on another forum said the Classic weighs 1960g. That's what I have and if true that's actually not bad for the low end, but that may be optimistic.
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Old 06-18-17, 07:38 PM
  #110  
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When it comes to the scales the S-Works frame in 56cm comes in at 880grams. Complete, that means a Diverge S-Works 56cm with two bottle cages and a full SWAT box comes in at 18.52lb (8.4kg). A women’s Diverge Comp in a 56cm with no cages, SWAT, or dropper and a 2x drivetrain measured 21.01lbs (9.5kg), while the aluminium Diverge Comp E5 in a 54cm weighed in at 21.61lbs (9.8kg).
url

Gotta say, I'm surprised that the S-Works complete bike is a whole 1kg lighter than the Comp and this makes me a little disappointed that the Comp weighs that much and is only 300grams lighter than a Comp E5 (probably close to 400/500 if sized at 56cm)

Changing the wheels and 105 to Ultegra on the Comp will probably get it around 8.8-9kg I suppose.

As for the Comp E5, guess with the same upgrades (Ultegra and wheels), then it's possible to get around 9.1-3kg or so.

So looks like if you're looking for long term upgrades, the Diverge Sport might be the better buy then a Diverge Comp (though I wished the Sport came in better color)

And those who will ride more on the road and occasionally offroad might be better of with the Roubaix Elite instead, it's lighter and cheaper than the Comp.

Last edited by wheelhot; 06-18-17 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 06-18-17, 07:46 PM
  #111  
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I think I'm leaning more and more toward the Comp E5 rather than the 2017 Elite DSW. 105, Futureshock, standard wheels, bigger tires. I just wish it had the more unique look of the 2017s.
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Old 06-18-17, 07:50 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by curttard View Post
I think I'm leaning more and more toward the Comp E5 rather than the 2017 Elite DSW. 105, Futureshock, standard wheels, bigger tires. I just wish it had the more unique look of the 2017s.
Yes, I think from weight to price ratio, the Comp E5 is a better buy as its component is close to the Comp (-CG-R and hydros)

The DSW body still looks nice though I think it doesn't help much in terms of compliance and 2018 definitely has a better looking fork. Haha

Last edited by wheelhot; 06-18-17 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 06-19-17, 10:29 AM
  #113  
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Dang, I was hoping this thread and the Facebook group would have all kinds of ride impressions of the 2018 Diverges from people who have the 2015-2017, since the 2018s seem to be in stores now.
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Old 06-19-17, 12:02 PM
  #114  
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My 2c having been following the Diverge since the beginning and an owner for over a year.

-@wheelhot All frames including carbon have had front/rear fender And rack mounts since the beginning

-@lazyass Axis 4.0 wheelset is around 1650g. Not sure about the others.

-SCS is not an issue on the previous models. For DSW frames, once you use the non-SCS hanger it becomes a regular bike, there was no difference except the hanger. For carbon frames with thru-axle SCS, again with using the non-SCS hanger there's no issue and you will see people in the facebook group running the whole spectrum of wheelsets without any issue.

-DSW is not just about appearance. It creates more optimum tube ends underneath the welds, allowing for better stiffness and compliance. When I was in the process of purchasing in 2015 I posted a back to back review. Apart from big potholes and ruts, the DSW was the smoothest frame I had ever ridden. There was zero buzz. It only gave up to the 10r carbon frame slightly in large bump impact and a bit more in overall pedaling and steering stiffness. One of the best alloy frames I've ever ridden. For casual road and well groomed gravel, it was actually the better frame imo. The pictures above are of the 2015 Smartweld frame. I don't know why the welds had such a sloppy appearance, which really put me off, but underneath they had the DSW tube end profiles. 2016 and 2017 welds are very clean in appearance. The 2018 alloy frames while having better front-end compliance due to futureshock are more than likely giving up some stiffness to the 2015-2017 models due to lack of DSW.

-Compared to the 2015 Carbon Comp they previously reviewed, cyclingtips found the 2018 Carbon Comp is 2+ lbs heavier. I have a 2016 Carbon Expert, but if I were in the market for this new bike I'd probably go for the Alloy Comp. The value for $$ in the new carbon models is seemingly absent. The final compliance will be similar between the alloy and comp considering how much the futureshock and a quality seatpost offer. Alloy Comp vs. Carbon Comp is a $1200 difference.

-Biggest one is regarding the frame philosophy. If you regularly ride on very gnarly gravel the new bike is a home run. Otherwise, the previous one struck the goldilocks balance between road and gravel. And on top of this all the models had front and rear rack/fenders which will make it a truly unique bike in history since the other similar bikes like Domane SL/R and Paralane only take fenders. I was considering upgrading before the release but the frame is overkill imo unless riding rough gravel regularly and the frame and component downgrades were the final straw.

-Imo the best deals today are used 2016 Comp DSW's. There are many 'used' bikes that have barely been ridden and they go for $900-$1200. And for that you get Ultegra level R685 shifters and brakes, 105 derailleurs, Axis 3.0 wheelset. And with alloy, frame warranty is much less an issue.
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Old 06-19-17, 12:57 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by vinuneuro View Post
-Imo the best deals today are used 2016 Comp DSW's. There are many 'used' bikes that have barely been ridden and they go for $900-$1200. And for that you get Ultegra level R685 shifters and brakes, 105 derailleurs, Axis 3.0 wheelset. And with alloy, frame warranty is much less an issue.

Interesting. This one? Bike bluebook says $1300-1400. I've definitely never seen any for anywhere near $900. There's one on ebay right now for $1900. Craigslist in the DC Metro area has only had a tiny handful of Diverges in the year I've been looking -- one was an Elite DSW for $800 (that I should have bought), the rest have been A1s for $750-800 (ridiculous).

Personally I can't consider the 2016 Comp DSW because I don't like either the silver or the red.

I guess what will ultimately decide me between 2017 Elite DSW and 2018 E5 Comp will be reviews from people directly comparing the 2018s and 2017s. If the road ride suffers noticeably then I'll go with the 2017 probably.
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Old 06-19-17, 01:15 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by vinuneuro View Post
-@wheelhot All frames including carbon have had front/rear fender And rack mounts since the beginning
I've only had mine for a week so maybe I'm totally missing something, but I don't see any kind of mount on the fork. I was actually bummed because I was planning on getting those "plug and play" fenders. Am I missing something?

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Old 06-19-17, 01:26 PM
  #117  
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Oh, never mind. I looked up the install instructions and see those small holes on the rear of the dropouts. Now my new question is how big a tire will they fit? Specialized says 30c, but the 30c's on my bike actually measure 32 according to my micrometer. And I want to buy 33.3's.
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Old 06-19-17, 10:42 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by vinuneuro View Post
My 2c having been following the Diverge since the beginning and an owner for over a year.

-@wheelhot All frames including carbon have had front/rear fender And rack mounts since the beginning
thanks for your 2c, oh I must have read wrong then, as I always thought that rear racks is only available on the DSW model

-DSW is not just about appearance. It creates more optimum tube ends underneath the welds, allowing for better stiffness and compliance. When I was in the process of purchasing in 2015 I posted a back to back review. Apart from big potholes and ruts, the DSW was the smoothest frame I had ever ridden. There was zero buzz. It only gave up to the 10r carbon frame slightly in large bump impact and a bit more in overall pedaling and steering stiffness. One of the best alloy frames I've ever ridden. For casual road and well groomed gravel, it was actually the better frame imo. The pictures above are of the 2015 Smartweld frame. I don't know why the welds had such a sloppy appearance, which really put me off, but underneath they had the DSW tube end profiles. 2016 and 2017 welds are very clean in appearance. The 2018 alloy frames while having better front-end compliance due to futureshock are more than likely giving up some stiffness to the 2015-2017 models due to lack of DSW.
Well your review echoes what I've read about the Allez DSW which the reviewer mentioned it being very comparable to the carbon version. Though can you clarify if your Diverge DSW bottom tube looks like this?





-Compared to the 2015 Carbon Comp they previously reviewed, cyclingtips found the 2018 Carbon Comp is 2+ lbs heavier. I have a 2016 Carbon Expert, but if I were in the market for this new bike I'd probably go for the Alloy Comp. The value for $$ in the new carbon models is seemingly absent. The final compliance will be similar between the alloy and comp considering how much the futureshock and a quality seatpost offer. Alloy Comp vs. Carbon Comp is a $1200 difference.
Good points, especially with the futureshock and if you go for the CG-R seatpost, then the final compliance will be similar, the only difference will be weight but the 9r carbon isn't that much lighter as well. And lets face it, the 2018 normal man Diverge will be heavier then 1st gen Diverge due to futureshock, cheaper (more compliance less stiff) carbon and lack of DSW model.

If I recall, the FutureShock only adds 200g on the Roubaix frame, so for the '18 Diverge to be 1kg heavier in general, it's mainly down to the components, 9r Carbon (which I guess adds at least 400g from 10r) and none DSW for the allow model.

Though considering all the '18 Diverge uses E5 as opposed to A1 like past year models (exception would be DSW E5), we're getting a more premium grade alloy just the welds won't be optimium.

The annoying thing is, I can't help but wonder if Spesh purposely left out 10r and DSW so they can update the Diverge in 2-3 years time and claim stiffer and lighter frames

-Biggest one is regarding the frame philosophy. If you regularly ride on very gnarly gravel the new bike is a home run. Otherwise, the previous one struck the goldilocks balance between road and gravel. And on top of this all the models had front and rear rack/fenders which will make it a truly unique bike in history since the other similar bikes like Domane SL/R and Paralane only take fenders. I was considering upgrading before the release but the frame is overkill imo unless riding rough gravel regularly and the frame and component downgrades were the final straw.
Yeah, which is why I'll now check with my dealer on how much the price difference going to be with a Comp E5 with upgraded hydros and CG-R vs a Roubaix Elite w/ Hydros.

Cause I'm pretty sure the E5 will be at least 2kg heavier than the Roubaix Elite and considering most people is fine with 32c tyres previously, the new Roubaix should be able to double as a gravel bike as well.

And comparing the Roubaix Elite and Diverge Sport and Comp:

The Roubaix comes with 10r Carbon, 11r Carbon fork (Diverge only mentions Fact Carbon and S-Works Fact Carbon), 105s and CG-R, while being cheaper and lighter than Diverge Sport

Like you said, the 2018 Diverge Carbon models lacks value.

Last edited by wheelhot; 06-19-17 at 10:53 PM.
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Old 06-19-17, 11:15 PM
  #119  
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Knowing that the geo difference between Diverge and Roubaix, which do you guys think would be a better fit based on the terrain and condition I ride

1. Mainly roads
2. Island, so it's hilly most of the time (and some climbs are steep)
3. The mountain bike trails are usually poorly maintained roads (so you're looking at cracks, potholes and etc) and have some mixture of dirt roads.
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Old 06-20-17, 07:44 AM
  #120  
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My $0.02

Roubax:
- Their new 80% road / 20% rough road, light trail & gravel.
- The shorter wheelbase makes it a bit less stable on the dirt.
- 700 x 32c Max tire size is limiting for some rougher riding but great for most roads.

Diverge:
- The 50% road / 50% medium trail and rough gravel.
- The longer wheelbase and lower BB makes it more stable on the loose terrain.
- 700 x 42c max tire size is more capable on rougher roads and trails.

Based on the above and your comments, I think the Roubaix makes more sense.
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Old 06-20-17, 10:15 AM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by Chader09 View Post
My $0.02

Roubax:
- Their new 80% road / 20% rough road, light trail & gravel.
- The shorter wheelbase makes it a bit less stable on the dirt.
- 700 x 32c Max tire size is limiting for some rougher riding but great for most roads.

Diverge:
- The 50% road / 50% medium trail and rough gravel.
- The longer wheelbase and lower BB makes it more stable on the loose terrain.
- 700 x 42c max tire size is more capable on rougher roads and trails.

Based on the above and your comments, I think the Roubaix makes more sense.
Without quibbling over where to place the somewhat arbitrary percentages, I agree. I think many who were happy with the tire range of the prior year Diverge would be better served by the new Roubaix, while others (like myself) are happy to see the Diverge's most glaring shortcoming addressed by opening the tire clearance.

Into this mix, add the

Sequoia:
- 25% road / 75% full range of gravel conditions, some trail riding and some bikepacking attributes.
- 700c x 45mm or 650b x 50 tire capacity making for more rough gravel and trail suitability.
- 65mm BB drop could be a bit less stable on gravel, but offers greater clearance on trails.

AWOL:
- Touring on a wide range of surface conditions.
- 700c x 2.1" or 650b x ? tire capacity opens up many terrain possibilities.
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Old 06-20-17, 10:17 AM
  #122  
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I asked Specialized why no DSW this time out:

Because of the tube shapes and design of the new Diverge we decided to not to use the DSW design element.

Effectively this increases the compliance in the headtube and Diverge is slightly heavier because of the Future shock.
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Old 06-20-17, 10:50 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by Chader09 View Post
Based on the above and your comments, I think the Roubaix makes more sense.
Thanks, I just spoke to my dealer and they recommend me the Roubaix Comp over the Elite if I plan to upgrade to hydros as the cost difference to the Comp will be marginal and with paying slightly extra, you'll be getting a DT R470, Ultegra and Praxis Zayante. And I told them about my requirements, and they don't mind swapping the tyres to a 32 and to try, fitting a Trigger Sport even though it's 33 and see if it fits or not.

One of the shop guy even recommends me that perhaps I should wait for the '18 model as the upcoming Ultegra will come with 11-34T cassette (the largest one now is 11-32T, but does extra 2 teeth makes a big difference?), link.

Though he did warn me that Spesh might not even update the '18 model with new Ultegra and instead just give a new paint job. Not sure if he's just trying to push me to get the bike now or Spesh did have a history of not selling the latest components.

I like the list you and @BluesDawg did, if only there's a way to pin those for people to refer to

And interesting that Spesh actually replied you, I don't understand what they mean by not using DSW means they increase compliance, wouldn't DSW leads to a lighter and more compliant frame???

So right now I'm thinking if it's worth spending that much money or should I just go with a Diverge E5 Comp and upgrade to CG-R and hydros which will probably bring the price closer to a Roubaix Elite. Decisions decisions
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Old 06-20-17, 11:00 AM
  #124  
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I bought a never-used CG-R in my local bicycling Facebook group for $120, so that's going on either the 2017 Elite DSW or the 2018 E5 Comp, depending on reviews and comparisons.
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Old 06-20-17, 12:12 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by wheelhot View Post
Thanks, I just spoke to my dealer and they recommend me the Roubaix Comp over the Elite if I plan to upgrade to hydros as the cost difference to the Comp will be marginal and with paying slightly extra, you'll be getting a DT R470, Ultegra and Praxis Zayante. And I told them about my requirements, and they don't mind swapping the tyres to a 32 and to try, fitting a Trigger Sport even though it's 33 and see if it fits or not.
We tried the 33c Trigger and it fits, BUT there is not enough room for dirt & mud IMHO. It would make me nervous to run that in anything other than perfectly dry conditions. Depending on where you plan to ride, there are probably better 32c tires with a more neutral tread.

Originally Posted by wheelhot View Post
One of the shop guy even recommends me that perhaps I should wait for the '18 model as the upcoming Ultegra will come with 11-34T cassette (the largest one now is 11-32T, but does extra 2 teeth makes a big difference?), link.
The new 34 will be nice, but totally depends on your riding area, riding strength and typical cadence preferences as to whether it is needed for you. I want a 1:1 ratio for my gravel bike eventually, but it is not essential for many people. If you don't plan to do much climbing outside of most paved roads, I doubt that it is really necessary. 50x34 and 11x32 is a very capable range.
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