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Motobecane Whipshot Ti

Old 12-07-18, 11:17 AM
  #76  
fronesis
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Video of brake pad spring issue

First video shows the bike with the original pads and spring that it came with. The caliper has been properly centered and torqued. You can see that it spins freely with no rubbing. But if I push my finger on the top of the retaining clip spring (simulating what would happen if I hit a bump on the road), then the spring hits the top of the rotor and makes a horrible rubbing. If I then pull the spring clip back up, the rubbing goes away. (You might want to turn your sound up.)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ltr...ew?usp=sharing


Second video shows the same set up but with a brand new set of SRAM Road pads, along with the retaining spring. I can still push on the top of the clip, but it never hits anything.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aVg...ew?usp=sharing


And here's a photo of the retaining spring that came with the bike (on the left) and the one that came with the new pads (on the right). The differences are very slight, but the one on the left does not hold the pads as securely (they slide around a bit), it doesn't have as much spring force, and the top is narrower.

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Old 12-07-18, 09:49 PM
  #77  
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Mine have the same problem, but to a less extent, so far I'll give it a few weeks before I change the pads, btw, is it possible to just buy the spring?
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Old 12-12-18, 10:24 PM
  #78  
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brake pad rubbing

I just purchased the whipshot Ti and because I have no experience with disc brakes I took it to the LBS for assembly, I just picked it up and spinning the rear wheel notice that there is a slight rub, is this normal or does it need to be adjusted? I looked at the rotor. and the pads and they seem to be centered and I don't see any wobble in the rotor.Could it be the spring problem previously mentioned? Help
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Old 12-14-18, 12:48 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by OBMD View Post
I just purchased the whipshot Ti and because I have no experience with disc brakes I took it to the LBS for assembly, I just picked it up and spinning the rear wheel notice that there is a slight rub, is this normal or does it need to be adjusted? I looked at the rotor. and the pads and they seem to be centered and I don't see any wobble in the rotor.Could it be the spring problem previously mentioned? Help
If the rotor is centered on the caliper, with space on each side, it shouldn't rub at all.

Do what I do in both of the videos: grab the top of the brake pad retaining spring and pull it up so that it is as far away from the rotor as possible.

1. Does that making the rubbing sound go away?

2. If so, can you then push the spring down and make it hit again and cause rubbing?

If you answered yes to both 1 and 2, then you probably have the same issue, and you can fix it with new SRAM road pads and springs.

If you answered no to 1, then it's not even clear that the caliper is centered on the rotor.
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Old 12-18-18, 03:25 PM
  #80  
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Double checked chain size, it seems ok, not too short. but I guess it will differ between long cage and short cage derailleur?

Also, can you check what's your b-gap screw position, did you unscrew it all the way out to get the proper b-gap? thanks a lot

Originally Posted by shaneshane View Post
Great info, and looking forward to see your video
also, mine is 53 size, will check the chain length soon, SRAM warned that you cannot reuse the power link
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Old 12-18-18, 04:02 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by shaneshane View Post
Double checked chain size, it seems ok, not too short. but I guess it will differ between long cage and short cage derailleur?
The SRAM manual for Force 1 has you size the chain by wrapping the chain around the big-big, without going through the derailleur. When you say "not too short" does that mean you are seeing an overlap of two full inner links and two full outer links? On my bikes the chain was large enough to wrap around big-big, but they didn't have the amount of overlap that SRAM shows in the manual. First bike was too short by 2 links; the second was almost long enough, but was short by 1 link.

Force 1 is designed to work with the Force 1 clutched RD, which is obviously a long cage. So there's not really any issue of "switching" between long cage and short cage on Force 1.

Also, can you check what's your b-gap screw position, did you unscrew it all the way out to get the proper b-gap? thanks a lot
On my two bikes I can get the proper b-gap of 15mm with the screw still screwed in quite a bit.
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Old 12-19-18, 04:02 PM
  #82  
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Waoh, that's strange, I wrapped the chain around and I do got 4 links overlap.

My B-Gap screw however is almost all the way out, strange, did you have a different derailleur hanger, so weird.

Originally Posted by fronesis View Post
The SRAM manual for Force 1 has you size the chain by wrapping the chain around the big-big, without going through the derailleur. When you say "not too short" does that mean you are seeing an overlap of two full inner links and two full outer links? On my bikes the chain was large enough to wrap around big-big, but they didn't have the amount of overlap that SRAM shows in the manual. First bike was too short by 2 links; the second was almost long enough, but was short by 1 link.

Force 1 is designed to work with the Force 1 clutched RD, which is obviously a long cage. So there's not really any issue of "switching" between long cage and short cage on Force 1.



On my two bikes I can get the proper b-gap of 15mm with the screw still screwed in quite a bit.
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Old 12-20-18, 02:29 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by shaneshane View Post
Waoh, that's strange, I wrapped the chain around and I do got 4 links overlap.

My B-Gap screw however is almost all the way out, strange, did you have a different derailleur hanger, so weird.
OK, it's hard to photograph, but I've looked closely and tried to capture it. Pics below, but here's what I see:

1. The actual gap looks right to me, right around 15mm. This is a LOT more gap than you'd have on a standard road bike RD, but it's what the SRAM manual specs.

2. The b screw is VERY long and it's definitely most of the way out. I didn't notice this when I adjusted it, because I was able to get the gap right with play left to go both in or out with the screw, but it's true that to get to 15mm you have to screw it way out. That said, there are still 3 to 5 threads showing on the screw on the other side, so I could screw this out even further, at least a couple more turns.


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Old 12-21-18, 12:34 AM
  #84  
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Hi, I loaded mine, it appears that mine is worse, and it's almost all the way out already and I still have slightly larger gap than 15mm. it's shift ok (not as crisp as I wanted) but I cannot really complain too much
what else can I do? buy a new chain and increase the chain length?

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Old 12-21-18, 12:37 AM
  #85  
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Screw all the way out

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Old 12-21-18, 09:08 AM
  #86  
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Thanks guys for all the info in this thread. I couldn't resist and placed my order for a Whipshot Ti Force1 58cm last night! They have it back on sale for Christmas.

Hopefully I won't run into some of the (minor) issues that you have seen. Faulty brake pad springs, cables too long, chain too short, wrong ferrule,

The chain is in the spec "SRAM PC1170 110 LINKS". If something like that is wrong I'll email BD about it. This is my 7th bike ordered from them, and they normally take care of any after sale issues. And I haven't had many issues with any of their bikes.

I wish they would have put tubeless ready tires on this, like some of their other bikes.
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Old 12-21-18, 07:34 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by shaneshane View Post
Hi, I loaded mine, it appears that mine is worse, and it's almost all the way out already and I still have slightly larger gap than 15mm. it's shift ok (not as crisp as I wanted) but I cannot really complain too much
what else can I do? buy a new chain and increase the chain length?
My 2 cents:

1. Yours doesnít seem all that far off. Yes, itís probably a bit more than 15mm, but not a ton more. No reason to worry about it.

2. I do suspect that your chain is a bit shorter than it could be. While in the biggest cog, your RD is being pulled so far forward that itís almost in front of the cog. And since the lowest point of the cog is directly underneath it, pulling the RD forward means pulling it away from the cog. Your RD looks like mine did when the bike arrived. With a new, and slightly longer chain, my RD is more directly underneath the cogs, even when in the biggest cog. So if the gap of greater than 15mm bugs you, you could always install a new chain with 1 or 2 more links in it, and Iím pretty sure youíd be able to dial in the 15mm gap.

I showed you the picture of my wifeís bike (size 53). On my bike (size 55) the RD is in the exact same position, but I have the b screw is threaded in even further.
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Old 12-21-18, 10:28 PM
  #88  
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Fronesis, thanks a lot. I took my bike to local shop, they does not seems concerned, and say it's probably a small issue and I could increase the chain length slightly

I guess I can increase the chain length, just think what if we have a 11-42 real cassett, then the small cog is exactly the same while rear cog is much larger and requires a longer chain? does my logic make sense?

Originally Posted by fronesis View Post


My 2 cents:

1. Yours doesnít seem all that far off. Yes, itís probably a bit more than 15mm, but not a ton more. No reason to worry about it.

2. I do suspect that your chain is a bit shorter than it could be. While in the biggest cog, your RD is being pulled so far forward that itís almost in front of the cog. And since the lowest point of the cog is directly underneath it, pulling the RD forward means pulling it away from the cog. Your RD looks like mine did when the bike arrived. With a new, and slightly longer chain, my RD is more directly underneath the cogs, even when in the biggest cog. So if the gap of greater than 15mm bugs you, you could always install a new chain with 1 or 2 more links in it, and Iím pretty sure youíd be able to dial in the 15mm gap.

I showed you the picture of my wifeís bike (size 53). On my bike (size 55) the RD is in the exact same position, but I have the b screw is threaded in even further.
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Old 12-22-18, 12:45 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by shaneshane View Post

I guess I can increase the chain length, just think what if we have a 11-42 real cassett, then the small cog is exactly the same while rear cog is much larger and requires a longer chain? does my logic make sense?
If you switch from the 11-36 cassette on there now to an 11-42, you will definitely have to replace the chain.

According to the SRAM manual for Force 1, chain length is set strictly by the size of the front chainring and the largest rear cog, so a properly sized chain for a 42 chainring and 36 cog will NOT be the right length for a 42 - 42.

And it's not just that it wouldn't shift well: I highly doubt that the current chain would even wrap around the 42 cog, so you could do serious damage to your RD and hanger if you put on an 11-42 cassette and tried to shift into the lowest cog with your current chain.
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Old 12-23-18, 11:10 PM
  #90  
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Yup, whether 11-36 or 11-42, the smallest cog are both 11, though the chain length should be different due to the largest cogs are different. so when two bikes that one with 11-36 and one with 11-42, and both shift to the 11 gear (smallest cog). the derailleur actually should work for both situation but with different chain length.

That was my point, and that means if I increase the chain length slightly on my bike (11-36), it should be fine, make sense?

Originally Posted by fronesis View Post
If you switch from the 11-36 cassette on there now to an 11-42, you will definitely have to replace the chain.

According to the SRAM manual for Force 1, chain length is set strictly by the size of the front chainring and the largest rear cog, so a properly sized chain for a 42 chainring and 36 cog will NOT be the right length for a 42 - 42.

And it's not just that it wouldn't shift well: I highly doubt that the current chain would even wrap around the 42 cog, so you could do serious damage to your RD and hanger if you put on an 11-42 cassette and tried to shift into the lowest cog with your current chain.
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Old 12-24-18, 04:12 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by shaneshane View Post
Yup, whether 11-36 or 11-42, the smallest cog are both 11, though the chain length should be different due to the largest cogs are different. so when two bikes that one with 11-36 and one with 11-42, and both shift to the 11 gear (smallest cog). the derailleur actually should work for both situation but with different chain length.

That was my point, and that means if I increase the chain length slightly on my bike (11-36), it should be fine, make sense?
Sure. ​​You are not going to hurt anything by putting on a chain that is 1 to 3 links longer than the one you have.

Iím not an expert on clutched RDs, so Iím just going with the SRAM recommendations for Force 1.

You are correct: if you switched from your 11-36 cassette to a 11-42 cassette, SRAM would tell you to size the chain quite a bit longer, even though the smallest number of total teeth you have (42+11=53) is the same with either cassette.

With standard RDs on regular road bikes, there have long been two options for sizing the chain:
1. Make it just long enough to go big-big.
2. Make it as long as it will go, making sure itís not too long in small-small.

For #2, you size the chain by putting the bike in small-small, with the chain wrapped through the RD, and you shorten the chain just enough so that the chain doesnít drag on the front jockey wheel of the RD​​​.

I donít know if that approach is appropriate for a clutched RD Ė hence the SRAM manualís instructions to size the chain with a version of #1.
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Old 12-30-18, 03:05 AM
  #92  
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Thanks, I had replaced the chain, bought the cheap version pc1110, and suprisely I only need to take out 2 links
seems our bikes chain stay is quite long.

with this, it’s about 1 links longer than SRAM spec ( but to use power lock I have to size it that way), this solves the problem and now my derailleur can be adjusted properly. And it shifts a little faster now.

Doing more rides lately to make sure fully dial in the bike, so far the only left to do is the rear brake spring

what brake pads you would recommend? I used sintered in front which I regret a little bit, loud when I brake hard, but quiet if it’s a normal slow down.

Seems BD is not using OEM spring and pads btw
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Old 12-30-18, 03:31 PM
  #93  
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Just want to throw my experience out there for you guys..
TLDR: check the grease in your freewheel bearings!


​​​​​​I bought the Century Pro TI, which is very similar, but not the same bike, so my experience may not be the same as you guys with the Whipshot.

The bottom bracket did not have much in the way of grease or anti seize on the threads. Not sure it would rust in place, but I put some anti seize on the threads.

Rear wheel hub was loud when freewheeling. VERY loud when the bike was new, but quieted down some after a month or 2.
I disassembled the wheel while taking the spoke protector off and the bearings for the freehub are not sealed and they had very little in the way of grease.
I packed it full of marine grease, reassembled, and it is nearly silent and much smoother than before.
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Old 12-30-18, 04:28 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by shaneshane View Post
what brake pads you would recommend? I used sintered in front which I regret a little bit, loud when I brake hard, but quiet if itís a normal slow down.

I just went with the standard SRAM HRD. I had read you only wanted sintered for serious MTBing, so I want with the standard resin. They seem good.

Seems BD is not using OEM spring and pads btw
Oh yes, I'm well aware of that, after wasting so many hours trying to get the caliper centered on the rotor without rubbing.

Originally Posted by danthemanohhyea View Post

​​​​​​I bought the Century Pro TI, which is very similar, but not the same bike, so my experience may not be the same as you guys with the Whipshot.

The bottom bracket did not have much in the way of grease or anti seize on the threads. Not sure it would rust in place, but I put some anti seize on the threads.
Good suggestion, and not surprising. I saw very little grease on parts of the bike that should have been greased, so it was on my agenda to R&R the BB sooner rather than later Ė probably this spring. I'll do the same for the headset, which had a bit of grease on it, but not much.

Rear wheel hub was loud when freewheeling. VERY loud when the bike was new, but quieted down some after a month or 2.
I disassembled the wheel while taking the spoke protector off and the bearings for the freehub are not sealed and they had very little in the way of grease.
I packed it full of marine grease, reassembled, and it is nearly silent and much smoother than before.
Your bike must have come with different wheels. The whipshot comes with DT Swiss 1800 wheels, which I'm 99% certain have sealed cartridge bearings.
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Old 12-30-18, 07:19 PM
  #95  
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My Whipshot Ti arrived with rear derailleur broken loose. Outside of box looked OK, but there was extra packaging tape applied to that area of box, by who I don't know. Force Derailleur also has some minor scratches from hitting the cassette teeth. Was REALLY disappointed my brand new bike has taken some abuse already. The packaging wasn't quite good enough to protect it. I'm dealing with BD for resolution. So far they've offered 2 hangers + $10 refund. I don't know if this is fair, what do you guys think?

I'm still going over rest of bike, so far rest of bike seems OK, but the rear brake line is way too long. The chain has 110 links per BD spec, I haven't check that is right size yet. The brake pads seem like they might be loose, i.e. weak/wrong spring.

The headset had minimal grease, and the bearings already had some surface rust. Going to check the bottom bracket next.

I expect this is going to be one awesome bike once everything is sorted out.
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Old 12-31-18, 01:10 AM
  #96  
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Pretty sure your bike comes with Joytech hubs and WTB rim. which is probably not bad but you can treat your ti bike a little better than that, two DT Swiss 350 hub should be a really nice upgrade.
Whipshot comes with DTswiss wheel set, which is one the of major reason I went with this bike. and certainly the $1948 price point is hard to turn down. also I personally prefer the simplicity of 1x drive train. but your bike comes with full R8000 ultegra which should be superb.

Originally Posted by danthemanohhyea View Post
Just want to throw my experience out there for you guys..
Rear wheel hub was loud when freewheeling. VERY loud when the bike was new, but quieted down some after a month or 2.
I disassembled the wheel while taking the spoke protector off and the bearings for the freehub are not sealed and they had very little in the way of grease.
I packed it full of marine grease, reassembled, and it is nearly silent and much smoother than before.

Last edited by shaneshane; 12-31-18 at 01:11 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 12-31-18, 01:22 AM
  #97  
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That is absolutely annoying. my suggestion to you in this case would be ask for a little more refund. if you could re-assemble everything with new hanger and nothing wrong with your bike then I'd be ok with it.

My experience is significantly similar to Fronesis, slightly too short of the chain and wrong brake pad spring (not as serious as Fronesis). credit goes to Fronesis for sharing his valuable experience.
I was try to ask BD to refund me the price of the new chain and send me few of brake pad spring, they are dragging the feet. Don't have a lot of time to deal with it now. If you are going to sort out all those issues, I'd suggest you go ahead take some pictures and ask for a new chain and few new brake pad spring.

Back to your derailleur problem, it's up to you but I don't think it's a huge deal. I was even thinking of buy a new rival derailleur ($95) when my derailleur seems cannot adjust to the proper B-gap. (it turns out a slightly longer chain solves the problem so I was lucky and did not went that far)
Rival 1x derailleur is basically the same as force 1x but half of the price. so I do not see you are running at a super high risk even your derailleur eventually failed and need a replacement.

Originally Posted by MTBHHP View Post
My Whipshot Ti arrived with rear derailleur broken loose. Outside of box looked OK, but there was extra packaging tape applied to that area of box, by who I don't know. Force Derailleur also has some minor scratches from hitting the cassette teeth. Was REALLY disappointed my brand new bike has taken some abuse already. The packaging wasn't quite good enough to protect it. I'm dealing with BD for resolution. So far they've offered 2 hangers + $10 refund. I don't know if this is fair, what do you guys think?

I'm still going over rest of bike, so far rest of bike seems OK, but the rear brake line is way too long. The chain has 110 links per BD spec, I haven't check that is right size yet. The brake pads seem like they might be loose, i.e. weak/wrong spring.

The headset had minimal grease, and the bearings already had some surface rust. Going to check the bottom bracket next.

I expect this is going to be one awesome bike once everything is sorted out.
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Old 12-31-18, 01:24 AM
  #98  
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ok, can you send me the link?

sintered pad is better in wet condition, so far I'll probably leave it in the front. and will order a new set for the back.

Originally Posted by fronesis View Post
I just went with the standard SRAM HRD. I had read you only wanted sintered for serious MTBing, so I want with the standard resin. They seem good.
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Old 12-31-18, 11:56 AM
  #99  
danthemanohhyea
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Originally Posted by shaneshane View Post
Pretty sure your bike comes with Joytech hubs and WTB rim. which is probably not bad but you can treat your ti bike a little better than that, two DT Swiss 350 hub should be a really nice upgrade.
Whipshot comes with DTswiss wheel set, which is one the of major reason I went with this bike. and certainly the $1948 price point is hard to turn down. also I personally prefer the simplicity of 1x drive train. but your bike comes with full R8000 ultegra which should be superb.
You're right on this. I bought my bike about 2 weeks before the Whipshot was released, otherwise I would have jumped on it.
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Old 12-31-18, 01:36 PM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by shaneshane View Post
ok, can you send me the link?

sintered pad is better in wet condition, so far I'll probably leave it in the front. and will order a new set for the back.
Most MTB or serious CX racers are accustomed to running sintered, especially in wet/muddy conditions.

FWIW, SRAM doesn't recommend sintered for their road bikes brakes at all. I bought these (organic/steel):
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=79911
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