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Non scientific view on nutrition

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Non scientific view on nutrition

Old 04-11-19, 08:09 AM
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Hondo Gravel
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Non scientific view on nutrition

This is a just an observation with 100% junk science. When I was in elementary school in the late 1970s we drank and would eat anything and no one was fat. We would run like horses playing whatever sport was in season before school then we had milk break, drank our milk fast as we could then would run some more. Then eat lunch as fast as we can so we could play a one more again. Then again we would go crazy during recess before the school buses arrived. If you were fat you were rare. The vending machines had all the sugar and caffeine soft drinks and no one ever whined about it. This was before video and computer games and general lack of physical movement. Today you see overweight children all over the place with their attention focused on the latest I-phone or whatever. I believe the problem is just a simple lack of movement and physical exertion.
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Old 04-11-19, 08:11 AM
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I have taken the liberty of converting your theory into a mathematical formula, so that no one will bother challenging it.

Joy + Fun + Seasons In The Sun = No Obesity.
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Old 04-11-19, 08:58 AM
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The past is always seen through rose colored glasses.

There were fat kids in the 70's and I don't "see overweight children all over the place."

Even with exercise, drinking soda and eating your meals as fast as you can isn't a wise choice for children or adults.

Last edited by TimothyH; 04-11-19 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 04-11-19, 09:09 AM
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I was a fat kid in the 60s and 70s. I rode my bike all over the place. Your explanation greatly oversimplifies the problem.

I've finally been a normal weight adult consistently since 2012.
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Old 04-11-19, 09:32 AM
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HG, I'm about 20 years older than you (elementary school in the 50s early 60s). Yep, weather permitting we were outside playing and playing hard at school during lunch and recess. On weekends it was all day exercise although we called it playing. A rainy day was a day from he((. We ate plenty of sugar loaded and fatty foods. There were virtually no fat folks. I'll be 70 the end of this month and I contribute part of my current good health to always being active with the foundation for that activity dating back to my school years... my only daily prescription meds are low dose, (10 mg) lovastatin, and an acid reflux pill. Just my opinion but the government shouldn't be involved in trying to control how anyone lives by taxing sugary, fatty foods/fast food or banning this or that food... just an excuse to implement a new tax and also being none of their business what I eat... with tongue in cheek, maybe they should put a fat tax on computers / smartphones and tablets!
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Old 04-11-19, 10:23 AM
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I could say the same about the 60's. However there were fat kids too then. Maybe not as many. But the hours in the sun, unless laying on the beach sun bathing, meant burning Calories. The other thing I remember back then is that meat was not as large a portion on my plate as it had become in my older years. Back then, it seem at home meat only took up 25 percent of the space on my plate. The other 75 percent of my plate was vegetables and starches along with a salad on the side. And when going out to restaurants, an 8 oz piece of meat was considered a large portion. However by the late 70's, things where changing, the beef associations were heavily advertising and my plate went to 16 oz portions of New York Strip, T-bones, Rib-eyes, Prime Rib.............and a potato which frequently went uneaten, thankfully I still ate my salads.

Into the 90's and 2000's this trend continued along with being too busy at work for the fun-in-the-sun of my youth. Passing 200 pounds didn't feel great to me. Didn't like it at all. So thankfully I lived long enough to have life slow down, get back to the fun-in-the-sun, cycling being one. And along with food portions that mirror more closely what my Mom was serving us in the 60's, my weight and overall health is not so bad. However I have some friends that have been borderline obese most of their adult lives. I can't say they fair any worse than I do. though they do take blood pressure and cholesterol meds. But then again, I have friends in reasonable shape that take those meds too (they still eat the 16 oz steaks). I guess we have to wait to see who goes to who's funeral first.

That's my non-scientific backed observation.
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Old 04-11-19, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
The past is always seen through rose colored glasses.

There were fat kids in the 70's and I don't "see overweight children all over the place."

Even with exercise, drinking soda and eating your meals as fast as you can isn't a wise choice for children or adults.
There is no question that childhood obesity is more prevalent than it used to be:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat...hild_13_14.htm

Why the problem exists is subject to debate, but IMHO, surely a combination of bad diet and lack of exercise.
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Old 04-11-19, 10:53 AM
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kids don't need regimented exercise but they do need to be outdoors. Parents are reluctant to send them out un-monitored, and don't want to spend all of there time outside monitoring them

I see kids outside sometimes but they are usually monitored by a parent. Not saying they shouldn't be, but a time existed when kids were relatively un-monitored. My mom hates the outdoors but had no problem sending me out for the day

parents don't cook as much at home either, and throw in video games with amazing graphics to boot

lots of factors

this post is purely opinion and is not backed up by scientific data (to my knowledge)
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Old 04-11-19, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
...in the late 1970s ... If you were fat you were rare. The vending machines had all the sugar and caffeine soft drinks ...
cane sugar =/= high fructose corn syrup

The proportion of fructose has a significant effect on the perceived "sweetness" on the consumption as well as the sweetener cost as a fraction of the overall product cost on the production end. Cane sugar costs more. HFCS costs less and is more easily transported and used in production. Non-bound fructose is the problem.

The liver is the only organ that can metabolize fructose in significant amounts. When your liver gets overloaded, it turns the fructose into fat, generally.

Some of that fat can lodge in your liver, contributing to fatty liver. High fructose consumption is also linked to insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, obesity, and adult onset diabetes according to generally-accepted research.

HFCS should be avoided at all cost.

Last edited by Phil_gretz; 04-11-19 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 04-11-19, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil_gretz View Post
cane sugar =/= high fructose corn syrup

The proportion of fructose has a significant effect on the perceived "sweetness" on the consumption as well as the sweetener cost as a fraction of the overall product cost on the production end. Cane sugar costs more. HFCS costs less and is more easily transported and used in production. Non-bound fructose is the problem.

The liver is the only organ that can metabolize fructose in significant amounts. When your liver gets overloaded, it turns the fructose into fat, generally.

Some of that fat can lodge in your liver, contributing to fatty liver. High fructose consumption is also linked to insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, obesity, and adult onset diabetes according to generally-accepted research.

HFCS should be avoided at all cost.
Fortunately for us humans, HFCS is no more causative of obesity than is sucrose or indeed, total caloric intake from all sources. There is no reputable science which says otherwise. That said, please don't drink twenty 12-oz. cans of Coke per day. You'll get fat. That's a fact.

HFCS consumption is falling fast in the US and worldwide, yet obesity continues to increase. Less obesity has not been the outcome as was desired by those promulgating this stuff. So perhaps the science is right, and there's no link.
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Old 04-11-19, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider View Post
kids don't need regimented exercise but they do need to be outdoors. Parents are reluctant to send them out un-monitored, and don't want to spend all of there time outside monitoring them

I see kids outside sometimes but they are usually monitored by a parent. Not saying they shouldn't be, but a time existed when kids were relatively un-monitored. My mom hates the outdoors but had no problem sending me out for the day

parents don't cook as much at home either, and throw in video games with amazing graphics to boot

lots of factors

this post is purely opinion and is not backed up by scientific data (to my knowledge)
All true.

I grew up being told to "go out and play, and be back before dinner." If I complained of boredom, I was told to find something to do or they would find if for me (which meant chores of course).

Where I went and what I did was up to me, so it usually entailed hopping on our bikes and riding somewhere. We had no money, so we collected bottles to get something to eat if we really wanted it. We made mistakes. We took some risks, but we survived and were all the wiser for it. I broke my arm. Got in a lot of scrapes. Was kicked out of a few stores. But the utter freedom of being able to do whatever we wanted was both liberating and a responsibility.

Nowadays, virtually every parent is afraid to leave their child to themselves, even in their own front yard, let alone riding all over the place, even if every child has a cellphone and can be reached or located on a moments notice. They are given rides virtually everywhere they want to go. My mother didn't even drive, so if I wanted to go somewhere, I had to find a way to do it (usually the bike). I was in Peru last year and it was the same. Children, while loved and cared for, are not coddled. There are 8 year old kids out in the fields, tending sheep.

I dunno what happened. Too many milk carton missing child posters? Is it really that much more dangerous to be out and about than it was when we were children? I rather doubt it. As parents, we did too much coddling. But less than most other parents, and both our children (as adults) have thanked us for not helicoptering (or lawnmowering) them.

I dunno whether it has anything to do with anything, but as an old fart I can say that it was more fun to be a kid then than I think it is now. It was probably a lot healthier too.
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Old 04-11-19, 12:39 PM
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probably not more dangerous but the perception of more dangerous based on every single event being reported and publicized. In my totally unscientific opinion, kids in a group are pretty safe from abduction/capture
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Old 04-11-19, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
All true.

I grew up being told to "go out and play, and be back before dinner." If I complained of boredom, I was told to find something to do or they would find if for me (which meant chores of course).

Where I went and what I did was up to me, so it usually entailed hopping on our bikes and riding somewhere. We had no money, so we collected bottles to get something to eat if we really wanted it. We made mistakes. We took some risks, but we survived and were all the wiser for it. I broke my arm. Got in a lot of scrapes. Was kicked out of a few stores. But the utter freedom of being able to do whatever we wanted was both liberating and a responsibility.
Yup, pretty much my life growing up in the 60s too. I had my AMF Renegade (Stingray clone), neighborhood kids and imagination. We got into trouble sometimes, usually got ourselves out of it, only rarely with adult intervention needed!
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Old 04-11-19, 02:31 PM
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The foods today are not too dissimilar from when we were kids but the portions today are at least 2x what they were. Sodas are a prime example. Crackers used to come 4 to a pack. Candy portions are much larger. On and on.
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Old 04-11-19, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider View Post
probably not more dangerous but the perception of more dangerous based on every single event being reported and publicized. In my totally unscientific opinion, kids in a group are pretty safe from abduction/capture
Yea, I agree. There is a perceived risk that is far, far greater than the actual risk. I think the the majority of current cases of abduction are by the other parent in a divorce/separation case.

I understand parents' fears. I really do.

It's sort of a knee jerk reaction. I still remember the day I got tired of trying to roust the kids outta bed to go skiing. One day, I snapped and said the hell with it. I threw them a $20, told them they could do whatever they wanted, so long as they stuck together. My SO felt the same way and came along with me. In the end, the kids got on the hill about the same time they would have with me haranguing them, had a blast, and really enjoyed the freedom.
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Old 04-11-19, 03:19 PM
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I try to stay away from sugary carbs for the most part. I will slam a NOS before a ride and eat a Cliff Bar or some crackers in route. I drink iced tea straight with no sugar by the gallons. Back to what you all are saying back then we ran around all day unsupervised until exhausted. When we got in trouble with an adult we would lie and believe we fooled him but when we got older we realized that old guy knew we were lying through our teeth he just acted like he believed our BS story
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Old 04-11-19, 05:38 PM
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When I was a little kid, I had one of those tiny red firetrucks with push-pedals. Then when I was 8 and my older brother 11, we'd leave our Alaska homestead house after breakfast and roam the uninhabited countryside for miles. My mom had the bell off the front of my firetruck and the rule was that around noon and suppertime we had to be within hearing range of her ringing that bell on the porch so we could come in and eat. We were pretty good about it.

I remember one time when our parents were gone to town, we were playing trucks in our homestead clearing, when a pack of wolves entered it from the opposite side. We froze. The wolves didn't even look at us, they just went in a line, head to tail, in one side of the clearing and out the other, maybe 50' from us. That was very cool. It is said you can take the boy out of Alaska, but you can't take Alaska out of the boy. I'm still that way.

Nutrition was pretty basic. We never drank sodas, that's for sure. Why would we do that? We drank milk. We bought our bread at the used bread store, Velveeta cheese, etc. My mom was raised in Iowa back when the only honest profession for women was nursing.
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Old 04-11-19, 06:20 PM
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We had a culture of consuming fresh local produce, wild game and seafood in season growing up that still can be enjoyed at my kitchen table today, Cuisine is Culture.
Learn to cook tasty healthy meals for yourself and family/friends and go ride the bike.
Then, now: Same, same.

You can't "fix" the culture, but you can fix a decent meal.

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Old 04-11-19, 09:49 PM
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We walked or rode our bikes to school in the 60's and 70's. By myself in first grade! Today the lines of cars dropping off and picking up kids at school is just nuts. We also had pedal cars and loved driving them. Today little kids who should be running, jumping and pedaling are already being given a motor!

As a teen we pedaled our bikes up to the Dolly Madison store, which sold soon to expire goods at substantial discount. We stuffed ourselves with Zingers, "fruit" pies, and cup cakes for little more than a dollar. (paper route money) I guess we burned some of it off on the ride home.

On halloween we were allowed to go out trick or treating by ourselves, and stayed out well past dark. Had to stop home and empty our bags a couple times! I guess you can get away with eating lots of candy when you're running house to house.
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Old 04-12-19, 07:08 AM
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Maybe it was different in the 70s, but when I was growing up in the 60s there weren't vending machines with soda and candy "all over the place." I distinctly remember the closet soda machine to my house, in a suburb of Chicago, was at the corner gas station about a mile away. Mom served us soda once a week (movie night on the b&w TV), and we got maybe 4 ounces of the stuff (always 7-up or ginger ale).

There were more cigarette machines around than candy machines.

Mom stayed home and cooked real food from real ingredients. We could not afford packaged stuff, which was becoming readily available by then. We had red meat twice a week, on market day and Sunday dinner. Snacks were carrot sticks.

We got a nickel or dime allowance, and that was enough to buy a few pieces of candy a week. And we had to walk or ride the mile to Main St. to get it. It was a real treat.

In my neighborhood and school, there was one fat kid and one diabetic (she's dead now). The fat kid is my best old friend and is a very active, very slim cyclist.

Now I'm dismayed when I walk past the pharmacy sections in stores and see "diabetic supplies" signs above the aisles.

And the people in the stores don't walk any more--more like a shuffle or a waddle. Even the kids.
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Old 04-13-19, 07:47 AM
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Interesting topic. I agree with many points here.

My biggest problem personally is the size of food portions in restaurants. People are given enough food to have left overs at home, but most people I know will eat it all at the restaurant. Me included when I fall into that trap.

Fatter kids now versus the 1970s when I was 5 to 14 years old? Sure there were fat kids back in the day, but what I see these days are more kids overweight than I remember back then. Which seems supported when looking at old photos. The 21st century sedentary lifestyle of being always connected to an electronic device has it's problems.

I can use my four children as an example. None of them played outside with freedom, they had to be taken to the park and supervised. Definitely from the safety nanny coddling of my wife, part of it from "electronica". My wife still thinks I'm uncaring for letting the "kids" go off and do things on their own in their own cars.

1st kid - played sports up through senior year in high school. Basketball and track. Fit and normal sized.
2nd kid - played some sports but became a cheerleader by high school. Fit and normal sized.
3rd kid - the video game and TV binge watcher. Overweight. Lost all muscle strength gained in elementary school. Ended up working in a high end juice bar and became a pescatarian. Lost a ton of weight and looks normal sized. Unfortunately, the only thing worked out is the mouth so no increase in muscle strength.
4th kid - never liked sports. Wasn't overweight until in college. Sits on computer due to homework and online classes.

Strangely enough, the 4th kid has Physical Education as a required class in college, which I don't remember being offered past high school back in the day. The sad thing about the college P.E. being taken is that it's mostly a class about nutrition and any physical exercise is reported with a Fit Bit done on your own time. Walking around is all you have to do. So where is the favorite place to walk? At the mall, in the temp controlled climate.
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Old 04-13-19, 04:06 PM
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I remember "Go outside and play. I don't want to see you until supper."

I also remember when a quarter pounder was the large burger. Now it seems like it is always the small one.
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Old 04-13-19, 05:28 PM
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Obeseity is one result of poor dietary practices today. Also people eat junk food or food loaded with chemical additives with little nutritional value. I've seen on many occasions someone breakfasting on a big cola drink and some unreconizable substance. There is also much "food" loaded with salt and or sugar and unknowns. Much food comes from out of our borders and is grown and handled subject to unknown standards. This applies to food subject to US practices also, such as antibiotics other substances approved by The US Department of Agriculture or the Food and Drug Administration. For example, a beautiful shiny apple is coated in a wax, That was is supposedly tested and approved for human consumption by people who later leave government jobs to work for the corporations they previously regulated. I remember reading some years ago that baby formula from China was found to contain melamine. How long had that been going on?
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Old 04-14-19, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
This is a just an observation with 100% junk science. When I was in elementary school in the late 1970s we drank and would eat anything and no one was fat. We would run like horses playing whatever sport was in season before school then we had milk break, drank our milk fast as we could then would run some more. Then eat lunch as fast as we can so we could play a one more again. Then again we would go crazy during recess before the school buses arrived. If you were fat you were rare. The vending machines had all the sugar and caffeine soft drinks and no one ever whined about it. This was before video and computer games and general lack of physical movement. Today you see overweight children all over the place with their attention focused on the latest I-phone or whatever. I believe the problem is just a simple lack of movement and physical exertion.
I would have to agree with your statements. When I was in elementary school we were active all day long.

Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider View Post
kids don't need regimented exercise but they do need to be outdoors. Parents are reluctant to send them out un-monitored, and don't want to spend all of there time outside monitoring them

I see kids outside sometimes but they are usually monitored by a parent. Not saying they shouldn't be, but a time existed when kids were relatively un-monitored. My mom hates the outdoors but had no problem sending me out for the day

parents don't cook as much at home either, and throw in video games with amazing graphics to boot

lots of factors

this post is purely opinion and is not backed up by scientific data (to my knowledge)
Parents are way too overprotective. I live around the corner from an elementary school. Almost every kid going there gets driven to school. The parents want to be sure they drop them off as close to the front entrance as possible. They will fight traffic and parking just for this privilege. I can never figure out why they just don't drop them off about a block or 2 away and let them walk the final 1/4 mile..

I also believe the observation above that there are more overweight kids than there has ever been. I remember who that fat kids were because there weren't that many. Now it seems like every 3rd kid is overweight.
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Old 04-15-19, 09:23 AM
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Since this is a totally non-scientific thread I blame it all on the genetically modified American diet.

I trust Monsanto (and other food modifiers) less than Big Tobacco and Big Oil to do the right thing for the human race.
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