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Track Tire Questions

Old 12-29-15, 09:16 PM
  #151  
Brian Ratliff
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My method is: one layer on the rim. While that dries, one or two layers on the tire (one layer if the basetape is latex impregnated, two if not), then one wet layer on the rim and immediately mount. It's worked really well except for the one caveat below.

A word of warning about tire/rim compatibility. If the rim has accommodation for a seam, use only seamed tires on it. My carbon rims have accommodation for a seam. I mounted a tufo to it and it rolled during a race (nasty crash) because the centerline of the tire was not attached to the rim. The other way around works, but as others have pointed out, a seamed tire will not fit well on a non-seamed rim. It won't roll but it will be lumpy.
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Old 12-30-15, 07:03 AM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
My method is: one layer on the rim. While that dries, one or two layers on the tire (one layer if the basetape is latex impregnated, two if not), then one wet layer on the rim and immediately mount. It's worked really well except for the one caveat below.

A word of warning about tire/rim compatibility. If the rim has accommodation for a seam, use only seamed tires on it. My carbon rims have accommodation for a seam. I mounted a tufo to it and it rolled during a race (nasty crash) because the centerline of the tire was not attached to the rim. The other way around works, but as others have pointed out, a seamed tire will not fit well on a non-seamed rim. It won't roll but it will be lumpy.
I appreciate reading other guy's gluing techniques.
A question: I've never noticed a rim that had "accommodation for a seam." Could you describe what that looks like, or better yet, post a picture?
Thanks!
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Old 12-30-15, 08:51 AM
  #153  
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It looks like a channel down the center of the rim bed all the way around. I have some generic Taiwanese carbon rims that have the channel and I glued some velocity major tom rims that iirc had a channel. It's a good feature.
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Old 12-30-15, 10:25 AM
  #154  
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Old 12-30-15, 11:34 AM
  #155  
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Thanks Guys. Looking at the picture, it makes sense.
Paul
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Old 12-30-15, 12:46 PM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by MarkWW View Post

The groove is a great idea. None of my aluminum alloy tubular rims, track or road, have this feature yet all my tire have a protruding seam (sometimes quite thick). As an engineer, this mismatch has always bothered me since I probably never get an optimum glue bond.
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Old 12-30-15, 01:24 PM
  #157  
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Which brands of tires typically have protruding seams?

Last edited by dunderhi; 12-30-15 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 12-30-15, 04:41 PM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
Which brands of tires typically have protruding seams?
Pretty much all of them except Tufo and some Continentals.
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Old 12-30-15, 04:42 PM
  #159  
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Every tubular tire I have ever used has a seam that protruded to varying heights ( I do not buy high-end tubulars). There are seamless tubulars (eg.Conti Gand Prix 4000s) but never bought one.
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Old 12-30-15, 05:42 PM
  #160  
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Thanks, after I got home I checked some of my tires and wheels. My Vittoria Pista Evos have a significant seam protrusion, but my Challenge Pista Seta Extras only have a very minor protrusion. I put some air into the tires to see what the seam protrusion looked like under pressure and noticed something peculiar. The Vittorias rolled sideways as just any other tire or tube that I have owned in the past, but the Challenge tires stayed aligned with the tread pointing outward as if it was mounted on a rim. I wonder if the is due to the quality of construction or the silk casing. Anyway, I was able to look at 3 of my FFWD wheels and the five spoker had the channel in the rim, but my disk and one of my 50mms didn't have a channel.

As far as whether this is a safety issue, all I can say is that I'm a clydesdale (XXL) and have been running Vittorias to two seasons on rims without channels and I haven't had any issues. Also, my gluing process isn't nearly as complicated as some here.

Last edited by dunderhi; 12-30-15 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 12-31-15, 01:25 PM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
...

As far as whether this is a safety issue, all I can say is that I'm a clydesdale (XXL) and have been running Vittorias to two seasons on rims without channels and I haven't had any issues. Also, my gluing process isn't nearly as complicated as some here.
It's the other direction I had trouble with in the past. Mounting a Tufo onto a rim with a channel.
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Old 01-20-16, 04:54 AM
  #162  
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thoughts on conti gatorskin sprinter for outdoor (paved) training and racing?
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Old 01-20-16, 06:14 AM
  #163  
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No. No gatorskins for racing. Especially not on the track. Since your goal is to get on the track, I'm assuming you already have a road bike. That being the case, put something that rolls fast on the track wheels, like whichever the dry weather vittoria Evo is. I got two years of road racing 2+ times per week April through August out of my last set, so I'd be shocked if you chew them up in less than a season.
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Old 01-21-16, 10:17 AM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by sergioflorez View Post
thoughts on conti gatorskin sprinter for outdoor (paved) training and racing?
If you'll scroll back a bit I had the same question, though only for training. I'm using them now and they are fine, but when they were new they were slippery as **** when riding rollers, very scary. Once they were scrubbed in they were fine. Adequate, unremarkable training tires. But better than the ultra cheapo tubes by Continental and Vittoria (Rally, etc). I'll probably try Tufo's next.
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Old 01-21-16, 01:59 PM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
If you'll scroll back a bit I had the same question, though only for training. I'm using them now and they are fine, but when they were new they were slippery as **** when riding rollers, very scary. Once they were scrubbed in they were fine. Adequate, unremarkable training tires. But better than the ultra cheapo tubes by Continental and Vittoria (Rally, etc). I'll probably try Tufo's next.
I tried both Tufo(s33 pro) and Continental tires(gaterskin). I personally liked Tufo over Continental, because it's way stickier than Continental.
You should definitely use Tufo for training tires.
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Old 01-27-16, 07:32 AM
  #166  
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I have just glued up my first tubs - Pista CS Elites based on feedback here on FFWD F9Ts. I have inspected them after deflating and seen a couple of small patches where there wasn't good adhesion and I have touched them up. Is this OK? I had done two layers on the rim, one of the tub before a third on the rim to fix. Taking 24hrs for each base layer to set. The tyres feels rock solid other than the couple spots I thought needed touching up and will be very hard to remove the tyres but I will if it won't be safe to ride them with the touch up...

Advice gratefully received!
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Old 01-27-16, 07:50 AM
  #167  
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Can you post a picture of the sections you're worried about? Ideally you would deflate the tire and gently push the sidewall nearby to open up the gap until you get to glue.

Since you're in London, I'm guessing you're only riding these indoors at really high pressure, which makes me think it's probably fine. High tire pressure makes it more difficult for a tubular to roll, the opposite reason is why Cyclocross has so many problems.
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Old 01-27-16, 08:31 AM
  #168  
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I should have taken a picture before I touched up.... Was about a 2mm gap on the areas I touched up, other than at the valves where on both wheels one side went back about 4-5mm.

You're right the wheels will be near exclusively be used indoors at 180+ psi but would potentially see the occasional outdoor use in the prime of summer.

Cheers
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Old 01-27-16, 08:56 AM
  #169  
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honestly, that sounds fine. i've done the same thing before with no worries. they sound like very, very small gaps in the glue job.
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Old 02-06-16, 06:03 PM
  #170  
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I am trying to purchase clincher tires, but I cannot find a good all around clincher tire.
I read the posts about tires(might missed some post), but I could not find posts about all around tires.
So can anyone recommend me a tire?

I am planning to purchase Vittoria Open Corsa SR or CX, but I am not it has long lasting life.

Last edited by gycho77; 02-06-16 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 02-06-16, 07:08 PM
  #171  
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I'm pretty happy with my Conti SuperSonics. Unfortunately I can't get them through my shop anymore because our main parts distributor (QBP) stopped carrying them. I believe Conti still makes them, though they may be hard to come by.
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Old 02-06-16, 07:37 PM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by TrackMonkey7 View Post
I'm pretty happy with my Conti SuperSonics. Unfortunately I can't get them through my shop anymore because our main parts distributor (QBP) stopped carrying them. I believe Conti still makes them, though they may be hard to come by.
I wouldn't consider the Supersonics an all-around tire. I'd consider it a race clincher. They are relatively thin and light.

I'd say that Grand Prix 4000s are an easy to find, all-around tire with a good reputation. The only caveat is that it maxes out at 120psi, so I think there are better options for heavy riders. But if you are normal weight or lighter, they are perfect.
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Old 02-06-16, 07:44 PM
  #173  
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Oh shoot, I misread that.

Yeah, GP4000s are great, I've been using them on the road for a few years now with no complaints. I'm even using one as a trainer tire and it's taking ages to wear out even with grip tape on the resistance unit. I'll probably move to those once my SuSos wear out.
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Old 02-07-16, 12:20 AM
  #174  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
I wouldn't consider the Supersonics an all-around tire. I'd consider it a race clincher. They are relatively thin and light.

I'd say that Grand Prix 4000s are an easy to find, all-around tire with a good reputation. The only caveat is that it maxes out at 120psi, so I think there are better options for heavy riders. But if you are normal weight or lighter, they are perfect.
I have used the GP 4000 in at least a couple of incarnations on the road for a bunch of years and agree that they're great tires.

With respect to the Supersonics, I may be the only one, but I have gotten great mileage out of them this past season at 170 lbs on an outdoor wood (i.e., smooth) track. They're noticeably stickier and more supple than the GP4000 and they lasted pretty much the entire season training and racing 2-3x a week. I have trouble finding them locally, so have to resort to Ribble et al.

As far as durability, I think it's important to differentiate between when the tire wears down to the cord or otherwise loses an acceptable profile (the GP 4000 squares off for me), versus simply hardening. I won't ride a smooth, hardened tire on the track (though I would on the rollers) anymore; replacing them is less expensive than x-ray copays. So I'd take the stickier tire over one with a compound that lasts long enough for me to hang it up in the garage at the end of the season to heat cycle between extremes daily - the latter will be tossed in the spring anyway.
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Old 02-10-16, 07:38 AM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by sergioflorez View Post
thoughts on conti gatorskin sprinter for outdoor (paved) training and racing?
I raced them for a season. I was disappointed in the life of the tire. I DID use them on Dick Lane Velodrome as well as a few road time trials on the track bike, so maybe I could have gotten better life out of them without the road use. I'm a larger rider at 220lbs as well, but I figured the gatorskins harder rubber compound would last me longer for a race only tire. As others have mentioned they are a little slick to start, but they grip fine once they are scuffed a bit. I had no issues with them at Rock Hill with 42.5* banking.
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