James1987

Hello, first time poster here.

I am currently commuting 8.5 miles each way to work on my 15kg hybrid, it takes me about 40 minutes at an average speed of about 13mph. After doing the commute for a few weeks now I think it's time to upgrade to a proper road bike to shave some time off the commute, if not to save my aching legs!

I've had a look into the cycle to work scheme and my employer's registered provided only allows up to £1,000 unless purchasing directly through them. I thought I had narrowed the search and settled on a Specialized Allez Elite (£1,050 and allowable through the cycle scheme). But then going through to double triple check to make sure I came across the Ribble R872 for £999

I was hoping to get some thoughts on which of the two to choose (although I am open to other suggestions!).

I know that the Allez comes with a 105 groupset and has mounts for mudguards/panniers. At the moment I'm using a backpack, and I know they do clip on mudguards so that's not really a deal-breaker.

For the (nearly) same price, the R872 is about half a kilo lighter (although the Allez is still worlds apart from my current bike) and is fully carbon but only comes with Tiagra groupset.

I'll be using the bike primarily for commuting, with the odd leisure ride as I've rekindled a bit of a childhood love for riding bikes. I'm also quite competitive and seem unable to ride at anything less than 90% effort, constantly trying to beat my PRs (maybe Strava has hooked me!).

Anyway, appreciate any thoughts or help you could give me in deciding my next bike - I don't foresee it being my last as I'm also quite vulnerable to upgrade-itis, but I would like a bike I'm not going to outgrow in the next couple of years at least. Some future-proofing is welcome as is any possibilities for upgrades down the line.

Cheers
James

CarloM

Quick question: both bikes you list are rim brakes, but I see you live in the UK. Being foreign to it, maybe I have a misconception, but I understand it rains there a fair bit? Do you plan to not ride to work in inclement weather? If so that's understandable (I live in Los Angeles where it rains like 20 days a year). If you plan to ride while it's raining, you may want to consider disc brakes models.

I don't have experience with either of those manufacturers (just Giant, Trek, Cannondale and Cervelo), but since it's primarily a commute bike, I'm not sure what benefit you'll get from carbon fiber vs. aluminum, but I will tell you that I'm a big fan of the 105 (and higher) groupsets by Shimano. The 105 on my FX S6 felt smoother and quicker to shift than the Tiagra on the S5 I test rode before settling on the S6.

But ultimately you should ride both and see which one feels best to you.

James1987

Thanks for the reply and your experience with the 105!


Yes it's the UK and I will likely be commuting in all weathers (I can use my 40mm-tyred hybrid if it gets icy). The reason I was looking at rim brakes is just the better spec you get for the money. I have looked at discs but couldn't find similar spec for the same money. I know either way it will be a massive upgrade from my current bike though!

I'm also not sure how over-exaggerated the 'need' for discs is - rim brakes seemed to work fine ever since forever and also seemed to work fine on my very heavy mountain bike as a teenager. Also, for reference, I'm 5'11" tall and weigh 10st (140lb), if that changes things on the braking force needed at all?

CarloM

Drum brakes worked for many years for cars but now it’s very hard to find non-disc brakes. Sure, rim brakes will stop you in the rain. But discs will do a better job. And I’m not sure about your riding conditions in terms of traffic and unaware drivers, but in the four months I’ve been cycling I can tell you I’ve come within inches to cars doing dumb/illegal maneuvers several times. I can’t swear that something worse would have happened had I only rim brakes, but I have zero interest in finding out.

kissTheApex

@James1987,

Evans cycles used to have Jamis Aurora Elites in stock. It’s not what you might be looking for, and I do not remember the vat included price, but it would be quite a nice double duty bike. Light it is not though. It is a steel touring bike that has fenders, rear rack, bar end shifters and a triple.

I say sell the hybrid, get the touring bike on a cycle to work scheme and get a road bike as soon as you qualify for the next cycle to work allotment (if you can do it more than once that is).

You’ll notice we’re quite the enablers here

James1987

What are the thoughts on the Cannondale Synapse AL Disc Tiagra 2020 in comparison? It has disc brakes but comes in at 2kg heavier than the allez at 10.5kg.

Ogsarg

The bikes you list are more designed for racing than commuting.

For commuting in the rain, I'd definitely want fenders (mudguards) and I'd much prefer a rack to carrying a backpack. I'd be looking at endurance geometries and carbon fiber is totally unnecessary for that purpose IMHO. Plenty of options out there but being in the UK, you should have a look at some of the touring models that Dawes offers.

ljsense

I think either one is a great choice. Am I reading it right that your employer will buy you a bike if you use it to commute? I wish companies were like that here. That's awesome.

My opinion of rim brakes is that they will do the job perfectly. Have you gone sliding into traffic on your commuter? No. And the bikes you're looking at will stop better than what you have now.

If you like to upgrade your bike, I guess I'd lean toward the carbon frame, but I agree that 105 components are nice. I looked up the Ribble R872 because I had never heard of it, and it looks like it comes in a 105 version as well -- that would probably be a less expensive way to get better components than buying the Tiagra version and upgrading it.

James1987

Thanks, appreciate it. To answer a couple of points, my current hybrid has discs. Also, on the cycle to work scheme I still have to pay for the bike through pre-tax salary sacrifice (hence a big net saving overall). But the 1000 mark really is the limit.

I am really torn between sacrificing the lightweight rim brake models for the discs which seem to come with lower spec groupset for the price. The advice I originally got was basically go with the model with the best groupset for the money but now I have to consider whether discs are necessary on the UK wet roads. I think applying good road sense would compensate somewhat along with proper technique, are discs really just overkill? Very unsure what to do.

CarloM

Everything comes into play when attempting to avoid, or mitigate, an accident. Road sense, awareness, and bicycle components. That said, you can be fully aware and following all the rules, and then there's that one idiot who just isn't paying attention, is texting and driving, or just spilled their coffee on their lap, and comes at you.

I see disc brakes the same way as I see health insurance. Sure, you can get by a long time without it...but when you need it for an unforeseen emergency, you are glad you have it.

CarloM

Going back to your original dilemma though, if you're going to be using primarily for commuting, at relatively slow speeds (i.e. significantly slower than racing), and possibly in inclement weather...I agree with the thought that carbon fiber is of very little benefit in this instance. You may actually want something in either the endurance or gravel segment. Especially think about gravel because you can get much wider tires, run them tubeless, which would yield a much better ride quality in terms of comfort, would give you a larger patch of rubber on the road to help with handling, braking, etc. and many gravel models take fenders, racks and panniers much better than road bikes.

If I had your use-case, I'd seriously be looking at the gravel segment.

ljsense

Disc brakes have some real advantages -- they are great for putting mountain bikes to their intended use. But for road riding, even in constant rain, I think the only reason to worry about rim brakes is if you've got carbon rims. Rim brakes on alloy rims work great.

I don't think you'll probably feel much difference between the carbon or alloy frames you are considering. The Specialized fits the budget, has great components, and will be fun to ride. You won't go wrong with it; I'd put aside the worry.

But if you decide, nah, I'm full of it and go for a bike with discs, that'll work out fine too. Enjoy your commutes! There's no reason to stress out about buying a new bike -- it's supposed to be fun; enjoy it.

James1987

I'm not sure why you think because I'm commuting I'm going to be riding slow? That's the point of me upgrading from my current bike, I want to ride faster. I ride pretty much flat out at the moment and can barely get the bike above 24mph, 27 down a steep hill. Needs more speed I'm afraid (without killing my quads off every single day on the 15kg bike if possible)

CarloM

Sorry, I didn't mean to assume you were going slow. I just read this part of your original post (bolded). If I misunderstood, by all means grab the fastest, lightest bike you can.

2bridges1bike

I am also in the market for a new bike and have been going through similar considerations. A 1-2 kg difference in weight won’t make much if a difference in your overall speed since it’s a small percentage of your combined body and bike weight. There is a good thread someone started earlier discussing this issue. Another thing to consider is that if the road / weather conditions are less than ideal, than “smoother may be faster”. In other words, getting a disc bike with wider smoother riding tires will make you feel more confident and in control and so you will ultimately go faster than you would ride on a rim brake bike with smaller tires.

maartendc

Ill throw in my 2 cents.

Keep in mind that, when riding on the flat, the 500g difference in bike weight will not make any difference. Your speed will mostly depend on aerodynamics (your position on the bike mostly, and the wheels), and the rolling resistance of the tires. Most of the weight on these entry level bikes is in the wheels anyway, which you can upgrade seperately, so I wouldnt focus on weight.

I would test ride both bikes, and see which is more comfortable. Theoretically the full carbon bike should be more comfortable / reduce road vibrations more. Alloy bikes tend to give a harsher ride. So for commuting, I would choose the carbon for more comfort. Also you will be less likely to want to upgrade soon with the carbon bike.

105 vs tiagra shouldn't matter much, but tiagra is likely 10 speed vs 11 speed for 105. Again, shouldnt matter too much.

Both bikes will have heavy entry-level wheelsets. So if you want a lighter bike, just replace the wheelset with a nicer one, and that will save you a lot of weight off the bike. Also can get you more aero.

As a commuter myself: Above all else, mounts for mudguards and panniers could be important above all else for a commuting bike, dont neglect that! You may want to switch to panniers at some point, and it is harder, although not impossible, to do without mounts.

So again, to go fast:
- Both bikes will likely be equally fast, especially compared to a 15kg hybrid.
- Get a better (aero and lighter) wheelset
- Get high quality tires with low rolling resistance.

Good luck!

RedBullFiXX

The Ribble looks a decent deal
I would want minimum of 105 groupset for that 11 speed
And at that price point rim over disc brakes

James1987

Hi all, thanks for the comments. Apologies, I can only make 5 comments in 24 hours apparently.

So to elaborate, yes I'll be commuting but I'd really like to push as hard(or fast) as possible to build up fitness and shave some time off the commute, hence the choice of bike leaning towards race-style.

On the 15kg I average about 16 to 17mph on the flat but that can seem like more of an effort than I'd like on such a heavy bike.

An interesting perspective re the weight percentage. I worked it out, from a 15 to a 8.5kg bike the 6.5kg difference is 10% of my bodyweight which seems like a huge reduction. To shave 10% time or 10% effort from my commute would be great.

I found what might be a compromise though. The Ribble Endurance AL Disc Tiagra. So it doesn't come with the 105 groupset that something like the allez elite has, and weighs in at nearly 2kg more (10.2) but what do people feel about the compromise of 105 to tiagra vs disc to rim? Which would you think more suitable? Bearing in mind the slippery wet of about 200+ days of the year being rainy. I dunno, how "bad" are rim brakes really?

maartendc

Id rather have a 105 bike with rim brakes than a tiagra with disc. Rim brakes are plenty good, especially on alloy rims. And 105 has 11 speed vs tiagra 10 speed.

Bear in mind disc brake systems are heavier too, adding to the weight of the bike.

James1987

How about when factoring the constant rain I will often be cycling in?

Ogsarg

I'd go disc for your purpose but I'd also make sure you can put fenders on whatever you get unless you want a big black stripe on the back of whatever you wear in the rain and you're ok with all the dirty water coming off the front wheel all over you and the bike.

If you're really only going to be using it for an 8.5 mile commute, I would prioritize safety and comfort over speed.

bpcyclist

I live in one of the rain capitals of the U.S. and therefore ride in rain maybe 8 months out of the year. Not all rim brakes are created equal, so bear that in mind. That said, good rim brakes with nice pads on an aluminum wheel provide perfectly fine stopping power in the rain, in my opinion. It is a skill, like anything in cycling. There are certain things that have to be done, but if those are done properly, I think rim brakes are great. Carbon wheels, of course, complicate things. I've never used the best SwissStop pads (or whatever the current best are) on carbon in the rain, so can't comment on that, but there is a good reason I do not ride on carbon wheels during most of the year here.

Obviously, disc brakes have certain advantages. But using good rim brakes in a rainy environment is perfectly safe and appropriate if you know what you are doing.

CarloM

Was at my LBS that sells Giant. I rode a Revolt (gravel) for the first time. The mid-tier model which MSRPs for 2400 USD, though they make on for 1800 USD, which would be somewhat closer to your 1000 GBP (I'm not sure what current exchange rates are anymore, especially with Brexit affecting them).

I now double-down on my earlier comment about gravel bikes. Keep in mind I have a TCR that weighed in at 7.35kg with pedals, and an S3 that weighs just over 8 kg, so while I wouldn't call myself a weight weenie who hovers at the UCI limit of 6.8kg, I clearly appreciate light bikes. This mid-tier Revolt was light, not just for a gravel bike, but likely didn't weigh much more than my S3 aero bike. I didn't have them put it on a scale, but I'd guess right around 9kg even with the stock 44c tires and aluminum wheels on it.

I took it for about a 10 minute ride around the area. On good, flat roads, yes I lose top speed when compared to my TCR and S3...but it's plenty fast and responsive. When I took it on some notorious side roads where the city hasn't re-paved in god-knows-how-long...it handles the bumps, divots, and smaller potholes like a champ.

The thing I've noticed is that if you are near a Giant dealer, they tend to be willing to cut a little bit of a discount (more, if you're a repeat customer), and I believe they've started making their bikes tubeless setup by default. 44c tubeless give you such a comfortable ride over less-than-awesome roads.

A good gravel bike will get you 85% (or more) of the way to road bike speed, but will let you handle rougher terrain with aplomb, and for work commutes, also allow you to put on racks and panniers easily. I'm pretty convinced my next bike will be a Revolt, which I will equip with racks for work, and remove those racks when I hit the trails.

James1987

For my budget the best groupset I can get is a claris/sora. To even get a tiagra in the revolt I have to spend £1200.

Sy Reene

Wherever you are, is one of the Ribble showrooms near enough to visit?

there's also (as you're in the UK), the planetX options.
eg. with an sram option
https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBHOLS...sional-rival22