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My 1972 Raleigh Super Course

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My 1972 Raleigh Super Course

Old 12-27-19, 10:08 AM
  #26  
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I almost forgot, my drive side crank's cotter pin came loose on yesterday's ride, which was a little surprising, I've always read how hard they are to remove so it didn't really cross my mind that it would loosen by itself, luckily I wasn't too far from my brothers house where I could use a hammer and a 7/16 wrench to get it tightened properly. I did put about 2 full turns on the nut while tapping it with the hammer.

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Old 12-27-19, 04:35 PM
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I have a 1971 Super Course which is the same frameset and has the same paint and decals as the 1972 model. The 1971 model came with Huret Svelto derailleurs with extra-long shifters. They were probably better than Simplex stuff, but I took the set off when I found the bike in the trash in about 2008. I rebuilt it with mostly the stuff that I had had on my Peugeot UO-8 commuter bike. I figured the Raleigh would ride similarly, but then, holy cow, it's great, especially at climbing. It feels lighter than it actually is on climbs.

Since the bike started out as free, I've felt free to take all sorts of liberties with it. I've rebuilt it several times and am in the middle of another rebuild. I told a bike shop owner that I'm rebuilding it into a gravel bike. He said, "A '71 Raleigh Super Course IS a gravel bike!" I guess it's a lot of things. It's a better frame than you would expect, and it originally came with crappy enough components that you can get rid of some or all of them. The only original things I have are the brake calipers and the headset. I had different calipers on my last rebuild, and I brought them back because the current rebuild has 700c wheels.
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Old 12-27-19, 10:28 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by noglider
The 1971 model came with Huret Svelto derailleurs with extra-long shifters.
I agree with everything else you said, but the Svelto is wrong. I worked in a big Raleigh shop back then, assembled a ton of Super Courses (maybe literally!) but never saw one with a Svelto. That I can recall anyway. I think I would remember it if I had.

The catalog spec, and what my '71 came with, was a Huret Luxe ST. Some people say that is similar to a Svelto but I say not so -- they're just about backwards from each other in terms of their motion. The Luxe is more similar to an Allvit, in that the movable pivots of the parallelogram are at the top, with the fixed pivots at the bottom. So it shares with the Allvit the nice path of the upper pulley, which follows the cone of the freewheel, keeping a more constant gap from jockey wheel to sprocket teeth. Theoretical better shifting, but in reality they were finicky and prone to bending or jamming up with road grit.

The Svelto was a much cheaper model than the Luxe (as the name Luxe implies), with dull plating, low-quality bolts etc, and an unsophisticated action that does not follow the shape of the freewheel well. The Luxe was basically a fancier Allvit, but it wasn't really much lighter or better in any way that matters. Just (arguably) nicer looking.

I like my Allvit on my grocery-getter, but I've had to rebuild it twice. (Not too bad for an almost 50-year-old mech I guess...) The Luxe on my Super Course went away decades ago, so I won't remember why. I probably replaced it with a Suntour V. That bike has been through so many 're-imaginings'. Since the early-'80s, it's had a '50s vintage Sturmey alloy-shell FW (4-speed IGH), that I more recently converted to be a 5-speed (like an S-5, tho the hubshell still says FW Alloy)

I guess the switch from Huret Luxe to Simplex Prestige on the SC was jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire, since both of those shift well until they don't. But at least the Huret is rebuildable. Nothing you can do with a Simplex after the delrin cracks.

MarkB in Seattle
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Old 12-28-19, 08:17 AM
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I have your '72's twin, though mine has a cotterless crank. Bought it for $50, it had been hanging upside down in the PO's garage rafters for 30+ years... I left the Simplex gear on but I keep a close eye on it (especially the FD). Shifting was decent after I did some tweaking, not going to replace until the inevitable Delrin cracking starts. Ride-wise there's no doubt, these are great bikes.

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Old 12-28-19, 09:19 AM
  #30  
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bulgie, you're right, they were Luxe, not Svelto. I get them confused.
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Old 12-31-19, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by PilotFishBob
I have your '72's twin, though mine has a cotterless crank. Bought it for $50, it had been hanging upside down in the PO's garage rafters for 30+ years... I left the Simplex gear on but I keep a close eye on it (especially the FD). Shifting was decent after I did some tweaking, not going to replace until the inevitable Delrin cracking starts. Ride-wise there's no doubt, these are great bikes.

I'm hoping that mine will clean up that nice!

What tires are those? I've been riding mine on the very old tires it came with, they are in ok shape, but not confidence inspiring when descending at high speed!

Lack of tire selection for the 27" rims is apparent, The Pasela is easily available, but I'd like a more road specific tire, preferably in 1 1/4".
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Old 12-31-19, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jackbombay
I'm hoping that mine will clean up that nice!

What tires are those? I've been riding mine on the very old tires it came with, they are in ok shape, but not confidence inspiring when descending at high speed!

Lack of tire selection for the 27" rims is apparent, The Pasela is easily available, but I'd like a more road specific tire, preferably in 1 1/4".
Yours will turn out nicely I suspect. The tires are a set of cheap Kendas. When I first got this I thought I'd just fix it up and move it quickly hence the tires selected, but the darned thing grew on me and somehow I never seem to get around to selling it. I thought about switching in a set of Paselas but the Kendas work well enough as is, plus they're stiffer so less prone to blowing off the hookless rims and the ride quality is acceptable. Good enough for the time being.
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Old 01-03-20, 11:06 PM
  #33  
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I'm hoping to swap the rims on this bike primarily for more consistent/better braking. There is the Sun Ringle CR-18, but they run 30-40 dollars each, AND the ERD is 618mm due to the box construction which is smaller than the ERD for the rims on my bike, the front measures at 622mm, so the current spokes will all be 2mm too long.

Is there a half decent single wall 27" rim people are using which has the same ERD as the stock rims?
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Old 01-04-20, 01:29 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by jackbombay
I'm hoping to swap the rims on this bike primarily for more consistent/better braking. There is the Sun Ringle CR-18, but they run 30-40 dollars each, AND the ERD is 618mm due to the box construction which is smaller than the ERD for the rims on my bike, the front measures at 622mm, so the current spokes will all be 2mm too long.

Is there a half decent single wall 27" rim people are using which has the same ERD as the stock rims?
I think the preference these days is for double wall rims with eyelets and among those of decent quality, the Sun rims are about the most economical. Also, not that many rims are being nade in 27" anynore.

As for inexpensive 27: 36h single wall rims, Alex X404 was a choice but the seem to be getting rare in 36h. Ben's cycle claims to have three available $10.12 and the erd appears to be about 620mm, but that needs to be verified before the build. I've never used these rims but can recommend the CR-18 rims if you can't fins a suitable single wall rim.

BTW, the erd on a 27" sun CR-18 comes out to be 610 to 612, maybe 613.
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Old 01-04-20, 12:42 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
I think the preference these days is for double wall rims with eyelets and among those of decent quality, the Sun rims are about the most economical. Also, not that many rims are being nade in 27" anynore.

As for inexpensive 27: 36h single wall rims, Alex X404 was a choice but the seem to be getting rare in 36h. Ben's cycle claims to have three available $10.12 and the erd appears to be about 620mm, but that needs to be verified before the build. I've never used these rims but can recommend the CR-18 rims if you can't fins a suitable single wall rim.

BTW, the erd on a 27" sun CR-18 comes out to be 610 to 612, maybe 613.
I don't see the Alex 404 with 36 holes on the Ben's website.

I really like this SUper Course, and while I'd rather not buy rims and spokes for it, I'm sure I'll be plenty happy with the result and the expense will be forgotten fairly soon...

As for the CR-18 ERD, all the places I have seen it for sale show it as having an ERD of 618mm. Have you built some up using that as the ERD to find your spokes were to long?
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Old 01-04-20, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jackbombay
I don't see the Alex 404 with 36 holes on the Ben's website.

I really like this SUper Course, and while I'd rather not buy rims and spokes for it, I'm sure I'll be plenty happy with the result and the expense will be forgotten fairly soon...

As for the CR-18 ERD, all the places I have seen it for sale show it as having an ERD of 618mm. Have you built some up using that as the ERD to find your spokes were to long?
Well, you seem to be right on both counts. Either Ben's removed their offer of 36h Alex X404 or I made a mistake. As for CR18 rims, I've built a bunch in 622mm/700c and only one set in 27". My measurements for erd for 622/700c rims is 612-613mm and for 27"/630mm it's 620-622mm. My measurements are to the bottom of the screwdriver slot of a seated spoke which is a tad longer than if you're measuring to the circle of the rim spoke bed.

So, I apologize for giving measurements for 700c when we are clearly talking about 27" wheels.
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Old 01-04-20, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
So, I apologize for giving measurements for 700c when we are clearly talking about 27" wheels.
No worries :-)

With your real world ERD for the 27" rims coming in at 620-622 for the cr-18 it may well work with my existing spokes!
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Old 01-04-20, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jackbombay
I don't see the Alex 404 with 36 holes on the Ben's website.

I really like this SUper Course, and while I'd rather not buy rims and spokes for it, I'm sure I'll be plenty happy with the result and the expense will be forgotten fairly soon...

As for the CR-18 ERD, all the places I have seen it for sale show it as having an ERD of 618mm. Have you built some up using that as the ERD to find your spokes were to long?
A couple years ago, I built a set of 27" wheels for a 74 Super Course MKII using the original Normandy Sport hubs and CR18 rims. I just checked my notes and it looks like I used 296mm spokes for the front and 296/298 mm for the rear R&L Calculated values for the rear were a little less, but whoever I bought the spokes from at the time only stocked even lengths.The original SC MKII spokes were galvanized plain steel.
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Old 01-08-20, 12:36 AM
  #39  
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I decided to just keep the existing rims, they do work well enough, and I like the idea of keeping a bunch of this bike original.

I did disassemble the front wheel this evening and clean all the rim spokes and nipples with steel wool, and polished the hub and reassembled it all, it came out pretty nice for an evening project. I did also order some Pasela prolites as well!

The spokes are all sticking out of the back of the nipples .5mm to 1mm so I will need to grind those down. Before I rebuilt the wheel they were sticking out a bit, but not as bad as they are now, the spoke tension was fairly low before I rebuilt the wheel, now that it is tensioned properly the spokes seem just a touch too long...

Some pics, I should have taken some before pics, but, needless to say, it was all pretty grimy actually...



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Old 01-08-20, 03:08 PM
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Freewheel maintenance!

What can I do to it? What should I do to it?

It is a "schwinn approved model J"



The back looks like this, it looks like it comes apart with a 3 pronged tool that I don't have.



When I got thebike the grease in the freewheel was stiff enough that the rear derailleur did not have enough spring tension to resit it when coating so the chain would droop between the cranks and the rear wheel, I dribbled sme triflow into the outboard side of the freewheel and it immediately spun freely as it should, but having dried grease thinned with thin oil in there isn't particularly ideal, I have a grease needle, should I cram some grease into the small ball bearing that are visible on the backside of the freewheel? Just dribble some 20 weight oil into there and call it good? Or???


The rear wheel did have a 10mm axle in it (so the rear wheel was replaced at some point in the past) so I was able to replace the bent axle that was in there with a straight one from an old MTB wheel I had, I did of course have to cut the MTB axle to 132mm.
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Old 01-08-20, 04:58 PM
  #41  
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Looks like medium to heavy weight oil is the correct way to go for freewheel maintenance,

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...-cassette.html
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Old 01-08-20, 05:22 PM
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The plastic grit shield is a press fit. It should be possible to use a small sharp o ring hook to tease it out.
Then you can flush it.
Or, forget that and send it to Pastor Bob Freewheel spa

https://www.freewheelspa.com/
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Old 01-08-20, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jackbombay
Freewheel maintenance! What can I do to it? What should I do to it?
Don't take it apart! I have done it, it's not impossible, but it makes a "can of worms" look clean and simple by comparison. Just oil it.
Grease is usually bad on freewheels -- it can prevent the ratchet pawls from clicking back, leading to partial engagement which chips or shatters the ratchet teeth and/or the pawls.

Your freewheel is missing the seal on the back side. It just presses in lightly, and can fall off. That's why you can see the balls, those are hidden when the seal is installed. Not ideal, but not a deal-breaker either -- you may just have to oil it more often because of the easier ingress for dirt, water etc.. Over-oil it, then set it on a rag to let the excess oil drain out, and that's usually enough cleaning.

The seal on the front side can be removed too if needed for cleaning, like flushing it out with solvent. Just get something thin under it, like the tip of a pocket knife. It's a very light press fit.

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Old 01-08-20, 05:34 PM
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They do not come apart from the rear. I believe if you pry out that plastic dust shield, you'll have access to the outer cone for disassembly.
Freewheel disassembly can be tedious, and it may not be worth doing to some. I don't mind doing it, and I've done several from various manufacturers. Here's a link to a thread where I cleaned one up: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...freewheel.html

And yes, keep the pawls grease-free or they'll stick.
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Old 01-08-20, 05:48 PM
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I'm no pastorbob but I've taken freewheels apart and rebuilt them - it's a bit tricky the first few times, mainly the reassembly. More often my 'quick and dirty' is to just flush with WD40, then ease in some Phil's as the primary lubricant followed by a dose of lighter oil to thin that a bit (Phil's seems to get a bit too viscous in colder weather). Works pretty well for me, but everyone has their preferred method.
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Old 01-08-20, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage
The plastic grit shield is a press fit. It should be possible to use a small sharp o ring hook to tease it out.
Then you can flush it.
I was able to get the dust shield out. This bike hasn't been ridden all that much (half way through the original brake pads) so I'll just flush the freewheel and re-oil it.

Originally Posted by bulgie
Don't take it apart! I have done it, it's not impossible, but it makes a "can of worms" look clean and simple by comparison. Just oil it.
Thats the plan for now, if it seemed like it really had a lot of miles on it I'd consider taking it apart, but, I'm sure a flush and oil will have it working just fine.


Originally Posted by bulgie
Your freewheel is missing the seal on the back side. It just presses in lightly, and can fall off. That's why you can see the balls, those are hidden when the seal is installed. Not ideal, but not a deal-breaker either -- you may just have to oil it more often because of the easier ingress for dirt, water etc.. Over-oil it, then set it on a rag to let the excess oil drain out, and that's usually enough cleaning.
Ah, bummer that the dust shield is missing on mine, but this bike won't get a lot of miles, easy enough to pull the freewheel and flush it once a year.


I have some laquer thinner that I use to clean oily/greasy things, I let all the crud settle out of it and reuse it indefinitely, I'll flush the freewheel with that then use some 5/30 motor oil to lube it and let it sit on a rag for a few days to drain then reinstall.

Thanks for the tips guys!
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Old 01-08-20, 09:08 PM
  #47  
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I got the frame stripped this evening and cleaned up the cranks and chainrings, I thought they were going to look great with just a quick scrub with steel wool and I was right!



The BB spindle was not in very good shape though, when I got the bike the BB was certainly tight and I suspect it was like that for its entire life. I did adjust it correctly when I got the bike and I dribbled some oil into the BB as well, but the drive side of the spindle is fairly pitted,



It is a 16GC spindle, anybody have one in decent shape kicking around they want to sell?




And now to start messing with making a tripilizer! (For Eroica) The spacers for the small ring are exactly 1/8" thick and I have plenty of 1/8" steel plate kicking around, so now it's time for center punch drill press fun! I will also take this time to confirm that have not confirmed that my current front derr will work with a triple setup, I suspect it won't, but I'll address that problem once I have created it :-)
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Old 01-08-20, 09:23 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by John E
The closest I have come to a Super Course is my 1959 Capo, which has plain gauge 531 on the main triangle and a relaxed sport touring geometry. Very roadworthy machine, and great all-rounder. I have always admired the Super Course for the same reason.
From what I have read it is a favorite of many, I keep passing them by because I am more interested in an International , however I may buy the next one that pops up here locally.
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Old 01-08-20, 10:35 PM
  #49  
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I think the tripilizer will work!

It still needs some tinkering, namely, I think I need to cut the 5 hole piece out of this current piece of steel and then put 3 tabs under the 3 chainring mounting bolts in place of the spcres, then lay the piece with the 5 holes on top of it, then tack it with the welder, then remove the tripilizer and weld it properly, right now to get the spacing correct I'd need to use 2 spacers under the bolts, which is asking for trouble, plus the chainring mounting bolts really aren't long enough for that, so by "stacking" the tripilizer I'll get rid of that issue. The 3 bolts that hold the stock rings to the cranks are maybe going to be in the way a bit, but I thikn if I space the granny ring just a bit further out than "normal" it will work. The 2 rings that came on the bike are 7mm apart center to center, if I spac the granny ring so its 8mm from the middle ring I think the chain will clear the 3 mounting bolts, fingers crossed...





Here you can see how far the 3 mounting bolts sick out inside the "middle" ring.

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Old 01-08-20, 10:52 PM
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Hmmm, tinkering with it some more has me thinking that if the granny ring is spaced far enough from the middle ring the chain will be able to fit between the granny ring and middle ring...

I'll just have to put it together and ride it a bit to see it seems...
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