Anti-squeak chain wax additive badly needed.
07-10-20, 06:31 AM
#26
Senior Member
Paraffin oil evaporates very slowly and is used in an attempt to soften hot dip wax. Naphtha is not used for that purpose. It evaporates very fast, so it works only to dissolve paraffin or a paraffin/oil mixture so it becomes a liquid lube with a water like viscosity that easily penetrates the chain. It's intended to evaporate and does nothing to soften the wax. I always apply my liquid lube after a ride, so it has time for the solvent to evaporate, leaving only the paraffin or paraffin/oil on the chain.
If cleaning a chain between hot wax dips reduces chain life, something is being done incorrectly. If the chain is not dry and free of solvent when dipped, that could foul up the wax penetration, but removing dirt from a chain should never reduce chain life. I clean mine maybe every 500 miles and expect at least 3000 miles from each chain.
If cleaning a chain between hot wax dips reduces chain life, something is being done incorrectly. If the chain is not dry and free of solvent when dipped, that could foul up the wax penetration, but removing dirt from a chain should never reduce chain life. I clean mine maybe every 500 miles and expect at least 3000 miles from each chain.
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07-10-20, 08:47 AM
#27
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As a longtime motorcyclist with cans of that stuff in my garage, I would not, and do not use it on my bicycles. It works great on a motorcycle where the chain is being driven at high speed, and gets hotter, but on a bike, no. What it is great at on the bicycle, is drying to a nice sticky substance that allows dirt to be trapped on the chain. It is annoying to clean off. Use a bicycle lube, or plain oil if you want an oil based chain lube. For waxing, you may need to use some sort of oil based additive to your wax.
There's also companion DuPont product chain cleaner. Works well. You don't get the chain as clean as removing it and cleaning with min spirits, but with the combo of cleaner first, Chainsaver Lube second, I get great results. The crud that does build up seems to be easily cleaned with the cleaner product (or with min spirits, btw).
Disclosure: I used to work for DuPont and one assignment was at the plant that makes Teflon(R) branded products, including PTFE. I don't anymore, and I surely would not use a DuPont product that didn't work. These products (the chainlube and chaincleaner) seem to work very well.
07-10-20, 09:12 AM
#28
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I am respectful all the way up to the point where someone else becomes disrespectful. i offered what i thought was a valid solution to the op’s problem. you don’t have to agree with it and you can certainly disagree. But it doesn’t give you the right to tell me to go find a new thread if you do disagree, that is rudeness.
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07-10-20, 09:27 AM
#29
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The motorcycle chain lube you are referring to may be different than the one I use (DuPont Chainsaver Wax-Based Chain Lubricant, with Teflon(R)). The DuPont product seems to work well. The chain is not sticky and seems to go a pretty good distance before showing any dirt pick up. I can tell the difference immediately after I apply the lube (you're supposed to apply it and let it dry for 30 minutes, but sometimes I get on the bike and ride right after). The DuPont product advertises itself as a dry wax, and especially touts its avoiding picking up abrasive dust.
There's also companion DuPont product chain cleaner. Works well. You don't get the chain as clean as removing it and cleaning with min spirits, but with the combo of cleaner first, Chainsaver Lube second, I get great results. The crud that does build up seems to be easily cleaned with the cleaner product (or with min spirits, btw).
Disclosure: I used to work for DuPont and one assignment was at the plant that makes Teflon(R) branded products, including PTFE. I don't anymore, and I surely would not use a DuPont product that didn't work. These products (the chainlube and chaincleaner) seem to work very well.
There's also companion DuPont product chain cleaner. Works well. You don't get the chain as clean as removing it and cleaning with min spirits, but with the combo of cleaner first, Chainsaver Lube second, I get great results. The crud that does build up seems to be easily cleaned with the cleaner product (or with min spirits, btw).
Disclosure: I used to work for DuPont and one assignment was at the plant that makes Teflon(R) branded products, including PTFE. I don't anymore, and I surely would not use a DuPont product that didn't work. These products (the chainlube and chaincleaner) seem to work very well.
Last edited by phughes; 07-10-20 at 09:30 AM.
07-10-20, 09:46 AM
#30
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I am respectful all the way up to the point where someone else becomes disrespectful. i offered what i thought was a valid solution to the op’s problem. you don’t have to agree with it and you can certainly disagree. But it doesn’t give you the right to tell me to go find a new thread if you do disagree, that is rudeness.
07-10-20, 11:55 AM
#31
Full Member
The motorcycle chain lube you are referring to may be different than the one I use (DuPont Chainsaver Wax-Based Chain Lubricant, with Teflon(R)). The DuPont product seems to work well. The chain is not sticky and seems to go a pretty good distance before showing any dirt pick up. I can tell the difference immediately after I apply the lube (you're supposed to apply it and let it dry for 30 minutes, but sometimes I get on the bike and ride right after). The DuPont product advertises itself as a dry wax, and especially touts its avoiding picking up abrasive dust.
There's also companion DuPont product chain cleaner. Works well. You don't get the chain as clean as removing it and cleaning with min spirits, but with the combo of cleaner first, Chainsaver Lube second, I get great results. The crud that does build up seems to be easily cleaned with the cleaner product (or with min spirits, btw).
Disclosure: I used to work for DuPont and one assignment was at the plant that makes Teflon(R) branded products, including PTFE. I don't anymore, and I surely would not use a DuPont product that didn't work. These products (the chainlube and chaincleaner) seem to work very well.
There's also companion DuPont product chain cleaner. Works well. You don't get the chain as clean as removing it and cleaning with min spirits, but with the combo of cleaner first, Chainsaver Lube second, I get great results. The crud that does build up seems to be easily cleaned with the cleaner product (or with min spirits, btw).
Disclosure: I used to work for DuPont and one assignment was at the plant that makes Teflon(R) branded products, including PTFE. I don't anymore, and I surely would not use a DuPont product that didn't work. These products (the chainlube and chaincleaner) seem to work very well.
07-10-20, 12:02 PM
#32
Senior Member
I would suggest dissolving some of your wax in an appropriate solvent and simply top up as the chain starts to squeak. - Like you, I hot wax, but with a (messy) MC chain wax, like the one in the link. On the side I dissolved some of the wax in a small bottle of white gas and simply reapply from the bottle as needed.
https://www.putoline.com/en/catalogu...hain-wax/1675/
.
.
https://www.putoline.com/en/catalogu...hain-wax/1675/
.
.
Last edited by Racing Dan; 07-10-20 at 12:47 PM.
07-10-20, 12:11 PM
#33
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My waxing method is pretty much the same as Doc I's, and I may have borrowed/stolen my methods from his previous posts. Works for me.
I leave chains in the hot crock pot overnight. Doesn't hurt anything, might give it a better shot at penetrating. And I rig up paper clips through the ends to make it easier to grab with pliers and swirl around back and forth a few times.
The dry waxed chains are really quiet only for the first ride, or maybe up to 50 miles. After that there's some chain noise until I rewax them after around 200-500 miles. It's a metallic jingling noise, but not squeaking. But the only time I've heard any squeaking from zero lube metal on metal was after getting caught in a downpour when the chain was already due for rewaxing.
I've tried mixing leftover wax from scented candles, which already have some sort of solvent to make them softer. But the combination of scent and soy or other oils tends to burn and make an unpleasant odor, so I tossed that batch after a few months and started over with plain Gulf wax.
I recently got some PTFE powder to add but haven't gotten around to it yet.
Most of this year I've used Rock 'n' Roll Absolute Dry and Gold, just for giggles. They're good, very slick, but not nearly as clean as wax -- better than most oils but not really clean or "absolutely dry". Kinda pricey for what it is too -- the Absolute Dry appears to be naphtha with PTFE powder, and the Gold seems to be naphtha with PTFE and a little oil so it lasts longer per application. But both need to be wiped down often. And recently when my chain started dragging I realized paper towel fluff had accumulated on the chains from all the wiping, then dislodged between the pulleys and rear derailleur cage. Wotta mess. So I need better towels or just go back to waxing.
I leave chains in the hot crock pot overnight. Doesn't hurt anything, might give it a better shot at penetrating. And I rig up paper clips through the ends to make it easier to grab with pliers and swirl around back and forth a few times.
The dry waxed chains are really quiet only for the first ride, or maybe up to 50 miles. After that there's some chain noise until I rewax them after around 200-500 miles. It's a metallic jingling noise, but not squeaking. But the only time I've heard any squeaking from zero lube metal on metal was after getting caught in a downpour when the chain was already due for rewaxing.
I've tried mixing leftover wax from scented candles, which already have some sort of solvent to make them softer. But the combination of scent and soy or other oils tends to burn and make an unpleasant odor, so I tossed that batch after a few months and started over with plain Gulf wax.
I recently got some PTFE powder to add but haven't gotten around to it yet.
Most of this year I've used Rock 'n' Roll Absolute Dry and Gold, just for giggles. They're good, very slick, but not nearly as clean as wax -- better than most oils but not really clean or "absolutely dry". Kinda pricey for what it is too -- the Absolute Dry appears to be naphtha with PTFE powder, and the Gold seems to be naphtha with PTFE and a little oil so it lasts longer per application. But both need to be wiped down often. And recently when my chain started dragging I realized paper towel fluff had accumulated on the chains from all the wiping, then dislodged between the pulleys and rear derailleur cage. Wotta mess. So I need better towels or just go back to waxing.
07-10-20, 01:10 PM
#35
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So, an idea. Has anyone ever used a vacuum oven for waxing chains? The idea is to put the wax in the pot with the chain, put the pot in the oven, draw a moderate to hard vacuum, and heat the stuff up. Then when the vacuum has removed all the air from the spaces inside the chain, and the chain has sunk into the molten wax, you let the pressure come up. This forces the wax into the deepest crevasses. Then pull the chain out and let it drip-dry so as to not have a crust of wax.
07-10-20, 01:32 PM
#36
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Yeah, as the OP "I'm sorry" for that. I just want the d*mn grinding noise to stop all the while keeping my clean drive train. I'm a little too busy to moderate my own thread working full time and all. I did pour my weird concoction into a silicon bread mold so I could stare at the sediment on the solidified bottom of the rectangular hockey puck. Why? I have no idea right now. I just know that I want to keep riding.
07-10-20, 01:37 PM
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07-10-20, 01:50 PM
#38
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Chain waxing .... is nonsense. Thread starter underlines this in spades.
CLEAN chain... off bike, soak & dry and then in the baggie to absorb a thin lube.. something like Liquid Wrench is excellent. Depends on local conditions in my sand country even on the road that means ever 200 mi or so. Run 2 chains a bike.. off and clean on.. quick links. I run 9 rear.. two chains run
s Tx this winter minus my local sand are/were to .045ish.. at 1500+ miles. I run them to .075.. ones gets good life from this routine w/o the nonsense of waxing the dam things.
CLEAN chain... off bike, soak & dry and then in the baggie to absorb a thin lube.. something like Liquid Wrench is excellent. Depends on local conditions in my sand country even on the road that means ever 200 mi or so. Run 2 chains a bike.. off and clean on.. quick links. I run 9 rear.. two chains run
s Tx this winter minus my local sand are/were to .045ish.. at 1500+ miles. I run them to .075.. ones gets good life from this routine w/o the nonsense of waxing the dam things.
07-10-20, 02:01 PM
#39
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What do y'all think about oil and OMS aka HomeBrew?
07-10-20, 02:23 PM
#41
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07-10-20, 03:34 PM
#42
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I still think hot wax is just too much bother, especially every 100 miles. I switched to Squirt from Finish Line dry lube and have been happy with it. It is every 100 or so miles, but it is just a squeeze bottle.
I know someone that would wash down his bike after every ride and I thought that was crazy too. Not just wipe it, but wash it. People just get obsessed.
I know someone that would wash down his bike after every ride and I thought that was crazy too. Not just wipe it, but wash it. People just get obsessed.
07-10-20, 03:46 PM
#43
Senior Member
I used home brew - mineral spirits and motor oil or gear lube for many years. I got good chain life, but it created a dirty mess that I was constantly wiping off the chain and cassette. If I was to try it today, it would use very little oil and white gas/camp stove fuel that evaporates more quickly as the solvent.
My liquid wax lube is so much cleaner.
My liquid wax lube is so much cleaner.
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07-10-20, 10:04 PM
#44
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I am respectful all the way up to the point where someone else becomes disrespectful. i offered what i thought was a valid solution to the op’s problem. you don’t have to agree with it and you can certainly disagree. But it doesn’t give you the right to tell me to go find a new thread if you do disagree, that is rudeness.
Please leave this thread.
07-10-20, 10:24 PM
#45
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07-10-20, 10:28 PM
#46
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In all fairness, he made a perfectly reasonable suggestion in his first post, and was immediately asked to butt out of the thread. That's hardly encouraging healthy debate.
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07-10-20, 10:41 PM
#47
Non omnino gravis
Discourse ≠ debate. No one asked to have to "defend the honor of chain waxing." The OP asked about additives for hot waxing-- abandoning hot wax for something else entirely isn't really an answer. Very, very few posts in this thread have provided on-topic responses.
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07-10-20, 10:47 PM
#48
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07-11-20, 12:11 AM
#50
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I'd love to have you on board with the moderation team, though. We need people that can moderate the ****fest that happens when things like name calling and rudeness are allowed. I have a feeling that you can contribute a different style of balance.
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