branko_76 

I am completely old school. I have never owned or worked on any hubs, bottom brackets, etc that were "sealed"

branko_76 

polymorphself , did you note the cross pattern before taking them apart?

polymorphself 

Nope but I do have a pic if this helps...

rgvg

You might like this book https://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php

I think I saw it recommended here on bike forums.

jiangshi

Front is three cross. Catalog may tell what pattern is/was used on rear.

polymorphself 

Sorry here is rear. Looks to be the same?

Iowegian

For the hub seals....you probably can't find just those parts so if it comes down to re-using them or getting new hubs, I'd just re-use the hubs. The only purpose of the seals is to keep dirt out and many older bikes didn't have seals or had metal seals that weren't very tight. Bottom line, I don't think any small defects in the seals is a deal breaker and I'd just try to fit them as well as you can keep and eye on the hubs. Worst case, grease will accumulate around the axle or a little dirt will get inside. If it's bad enough, just clean the hub and/or put in new grease. Not a big deal, and if you only ride when the weather is good, you'll never have any trouble with the seals.

branko_76 

If the spokes are within 2mm or so of the front wheel, then my guess would be they both have the same cross pattern. If there is more like a 5 or 6mm difference between front and rear, then it could be 4x but the rear does look more like 3x. I'm basing my guess on the angle of the spokes at the hub, 4x would be closer to tangent than 3x.

Iowegian

It's hard to tell from that photo but I too think 3x on the rear.

jiangshi

I think 3x, as well.

Pars 

Nipples? Do most people like brass or aluminum nipples? I assumed brass, but didn't know.

Velo Mule

Brass.

polymorphself 

Hm- looks like the front axle isn't perfectly symmetrical, which I haven't seen before, but it's close. Maybe 1mm difference. Guessing it doesn't matter much?

branko_76 Those spokes are soaking, I'll update later today.

SJX426 

polymorphself To determine the x pattern, just pick a spoke and count the number of times it crosses another spoke. Include the cross nearest the hub. Everyone counts.
Hate to make this more complex but there are different length nipples and nipple threading. The last is unlikely to be a problem for you. Having all the nipples the same length is an advantage when lacing tightening the spokes. If they are all the same length, you can start with making sure the end of the nipple reaches the end of the thread for each spoke.

polymorphself 

Thanks! Good to know for the future but all the spokes are already out.

branko_76 Well, they turned black and then when I pulled them out and cleaned them with the scotch pad it did do a pretty good job, much better than before. However they are still extremely dull. I could scrub all 76 down and then try polishing them, but after doing one to wear I thought it looked decent enough (scrubbing the hooks isn't the easiest), I don't know that it's worth it.

Aside from that, I've started sorting them into two piles to determine which are shorter and it turns out there are actually three lengths here...I'm real close to just giving up and buying a new wheelset

I have a bicycle co op across the street from my house. Gonna head over there this afternoon and get all of the spokes measured, see what I come up with and go from there. I ordered a spoke ruler but it won't be here for a few days.

branko_76 

polymorphself , wheel building takes time to master, that's why I suggested you start with what you have instead of spending money on new spokes.

There's one thing I forgot to mention in my tool list, a spoke tension meter. This is essential if you want to build a strong set of wheels.

Hobbiano 

polymorphself, The spokes you have are either galvanized or zinc coated, not stainless. If you try to polish them you will remove the coating and they will rust. You can scrub them, but I wouldn't get too aggressive about it.

polymorphself 

Makes sense. At this point I'm pretty sure I'll be buying a new set. Gotta figure out these various lengths first.

67tony 

I recently built my first wheel set and, while it was challenging, it was also worth it.
Spoke length calculating, learning lacing patterns, centering the rim, and proper tensioning were all kind of tricky.



With that said, and after you snag a truing stand, it is pretty cool to learn this skill.

For reasonably-priced spokes, and very good customer service and communication, I was totally happy with Lee Kilpatrick, who is childhood_dreams on the auction site. Or, an easier method is to e-mail him directly at the addy below. He rolls the threads and cuts them to your specs. His lesser-known brand is Pillar, which he feels are similar to Sapim but a bit less expensive.

lkspoke@yahoo.com

polymorphself 

Awesome, thank you! I’m friendly with my LBS and he said I could come in and use his stand after I get the wheels laced up and he’ll show me how to do it. Would get the spokes from him But he doesn’t currently carry what I want and is very low on supplies currently anyways. I’ll get all of the measurements for these spokes and send Lee an email. I appreciate it.

Iowegian

Brass nipples are much stronger and easier to work with. They may add a few grams to each wheel but if you don't care about that, or care about the color of the nipples, use brass.

cyccommute 

I doubt that OEM wheels use different length spokes on the rear. Front to back spoke length will be different because of differences in the hub flange size and width of the hubs.

cyccommute 

Spoke gauge refers to the size of the wire used for the spoke. It’s not a number 14 spoke but a 14 gauge spoke. A 14 gauge spoke is 2.0mm along it’s entire length.

Butted spokes will have two gauge numbers (or two metric numbers). A 14/15/14 is a common way to refer to a double butted spoke. The metric sizes are 2.0/1.8/2.0mm. Butted spokes are better for longevity. Personally, I would complicate the build a bit more by going to a triple butted spoke which is a 2.3/1.8/2.0mm spoke, especially for the rear. That is going to give the most strength and durability.

While you are at it, I’d investigate getting rid of the freewheel and upgrade to a cassette. Axle bending on a freewheel is a common and consistent problem with freewheels. Going to a freehub fixes the problem. They may not be OEM but they are correct to the period.

cyccommute 

If all I have are square nipples, I build with brass (and use a four sided spoke wrench like this one to keep from rounding the spoke). But I build with Wheel Fanatyk splined spokes whenever I can now. They are much better than any square spoke and they come in great colors.

Nu2Miele

Hi.
I've built a few wheel sets over the years. Depending on what the intended use of the bike is, I'd use DT Swiss spokes (single butted) and DT Swiss brass nipples. You will simply get nothing stronger. Perhaps lighter, but nor stronger.

There are a few wheel spoke length calculators online. They require the number of spokes, the width of the hubs. The flange height of the hubs and the inner diameter of the rims. Also the numbrr of crosses the spokes make with other spokes once laced. It's best to measure in metric. You can manually calculate required spoke lengths to, vut may find it frustrating.

Someplace I thought I had seen a database for rim ID dimensions and the dimension of hub spoke holes from the centre of hub axle measured radially.

Once you have these dimensions and number of spokes and crosses, enter them into the online calculator (or handheld) and out comes the answer. Hope it helps.