dr_max

In Montreal there is one Mountain. Mount Royal. One segment, Camilien Houde. All the cyclists try to cover that 1.6km 160 meters elevation segment within 5 minutes. Some segments include the fastest 10 up and down possible, most of the people who race and live in Montreal train there or on the circuit Gilles Villeneuve.

the problem: cars doing u turns where it is strictly forbidden. This way they get a shortcut to go see the city view at the Belvedere.

the last victim, a young 16 years old cyclist called Clement Ouimet hit a car that made an illegal U-turn just after the right turn in the middle of the descent where cyclists average 60kph speeds. Clement had no chance and hit the driver side and died.

Who is to blame, the cyclist descending too fast? The tourist driver that wanted to do a uturn to go see the view at the Belvedere? The city who didn’t complete the middle concrete road blocks division till the end of the descent?

RIP Clement Ouimet.
He would be 19 years old today.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1214288105

https://lp.ca/yS7tA9

upthywazzoo 

What was the speed limit?

Bah Humbug

This can only end well.

rousseau

I've had a few close calls there too. It's a shame, because Mont Royal is such a lovely ride up and down, and otherwise cycling in Montreal is a total treat.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.51011...7i16384!8i8192

Here's a great stretch of La Route verte ("The Green Way") on the way to Chambly outside Montreal.



(Remarque: le mot belvédère en englais est "lookout," comme "The Champlain Lookout" à Gatineau, par exemple)

genejockey 

60 kph is only 37 mph. That's not that fast. The driver of the car is at fault - they made an illegal U-turn and did not do it safely.

upthywazzoo 

It's important to know what the marked speed limit was on this road, because that would make the difference between the fault lying solely with the driver vs the fault lying with both driver and cyclist.

An article for clarification: https://globalnews.ca/news/4280282/cyclist-clement-ouimets-death-was-accidental-coroners-report/

Bah Humbug

And we don't even know if the cyclist was going 60kph - the OP said it was "a place where cyclists average 60kph". I can't tell exactly how fast he was going when hit - I looked briefly and it looked much lower than that, but it felt morbid. However, it looked to be well under 30mph for a good while prior to the collision.

upthywazzoo 

Very true. From how it reads, it seems that he was expecting the vehicle to stay on the right shoulder and instead it turned left and he crashed into the driver side door. It reads as though it's the driver's fault, to me. Did they fail to check mirrors before pulling a u-turn? Surprising the court did not press charges against the driver.

Edit: just looked at strava file also. Clement was no longer on a decline when the collision appeared to have happened. Given this, I don't think the speed limit is really a factor anymore...

genejockey 

Even at 30, someone pulls a U-turn close enough, you're screwed. Nowhere to go, no time to do it in. A door, you might dodge, but a car?

Bah Humbug

I suspect you're right, but without evidence this is really just a clickbait thread for people to speculate and argue.

People are stunningly stupid about U-turns; my uncle lost his late wife because she forgot her wallet and took a U-turn on a 50mph 5-lane road in San Antonio.

genejockey 

I'm not surprised, but perhaps I'm more cynical:
"I never saw him!"
"Oh, well, in that case, you're free to go. No way to avoid the collision."

dr_max

I was descending the same road the other day and I saw a car slowing and stopped on the right shoulder. I applied the brakes immediately and slowed down, the car did a uturn right in front of me but I was already behind the car and passed him on the right.

Clement’s story and tragical death saved my life.

rousseau

It says 40 here: https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.50725...7i16384!8i8192. But I've regularly gone up to 60 and 70 on the downhill there.

flangehead

This can be generalized further. Unfortunately the case cited In the following video is too similar. You may not like it, but ultimately we vulnerable road users must actively manage our own safety.

njkayaker

Why not both?

upthywazzoo 

Thanks for this. Given the strava info and the fact that the car slowed down enough for Clement to attempt a pass--I would speculate that both driver and cyclist were under the speed limit--so it (the limit) wasn't a factor. I hesitate to lay any responsibility on Clement, since he paid the ultimate price and I don't want to appear insensitive. I will say that even with as much experience riding in traffic that I have now--I probably am not treating vehicles with enough respect--or perhaps caution is the better word. Perhaps it's the rose colored glasses I get from having dedicated bike lanes, generally I treat all drivers as though they know what they're doing (despite multiple incidents proving otherwise). Stories like this make me think--why the heck would I believe that? Even though I don't follow cars closely if forced to be in the street proper, I could definitely see myself being caught unawares by a driver attempting a u-turn. Gotta increase that follow distance.

dr_max

now I tend to be more suspicious to any car making a move that is not conventional.

Digger Goreman

Another judge and another accessory to negligent vehicular homicide....

Dammed pity we can't haunt them from the grave.

Dan333SP

I was in Montreal last summer for the F1 race and rented a bike, I road up and down Mont Royal a couple of times and had a very similar near-miss, this is scary to read.

It is a fabulous city (in the summer) in which to ride a bike, though. I rode from the old town out to the end of the Lachine Canal path a few times and loved every minute of it.

I did also swallow about 15,000 flies while riding to/from the estacade that runs along the seaway.

Bah Humbug

We know the driver made an illegal U-turn. We don’t actually know exactly how fast the cyclist was going, but per Strava it appears it may have been right around the limit.

njkayaker

I was replying to the following. My answer to the question of a cyclist not descending "too fast" might not be the same.

The accident occurred 10/4/2017. The Strava posting was from 10/3/2017. It's not the same ride.

(How would somebody post a ride they got killed on?)

Bah Humbug

Which was a question relying on baseless conjecture about a specific incident.

dr_max

It’s not renown to be a bike friendly place

upthywazzoo 

Okay, well now I feel dumb.

Bah Humbug

Auto-upload? Even so, we’re weighing a known illegal U-turn against a maybe-speeding. Not much of a comparison.