Seatpost clamp bolt for Ron Cooper
07-13-20, 10:42 AM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Seatpost clamp bolt for Ron Cooper
Hi all, I have a Ron Cooper frame, I think 80s though can't be sure.
It has a threaded seatpost clamp which I'm trying to find a bolt for. It's close to M8 but doesn't fit various M8 bolts I've tried, so I'm guess it's an imperial thread. Could anyone help me narrow it down so I can order the right thing?
It has a threaded seatpost clamp which I'm trying to find a bolt for. It's close to M8 but doesn't fit various M8 bolts I've tried, so I'm guess it's an imperial thread. Could anyone help me narrow it down so I can order the right thing?
07-13-20, 11:09 AM
#2
Disraeli Gears
5/16" is just slightly under 8 mm, and the usual UNF thread is 5/16-24. You might be able to determine the thread pitch of the frame by using a bent wire and a dial caliper. Or just buy a 5/16-24 and 5/16-18 screw each, and see if either fits.
07-13-20, 11:14 AM
#3
framebuilder
The treading used on binder bolts on British frames of the classic era is 5/16" X 22 BSF (British Standard Fine). These have threads that are a little finer (more teeth per inch) than British standard Whitworth. I don't know of an American supplier for these bolts. I got my tap from England. The socket wrench size you need to use on the socket head bolt that fits into the binder is 7/32". Even though American and metric socket wrenches kind of work, I wouldn't use them because their smaller size will round the socket a bit if any pressure is applied.
Likes For Doug Fattic:
07-13-20, 11:21 AM
#4
1/2 as far in 2x the time
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Northern Bergen County, NJ
Posts: 1,746
Bikes: Yes, Please.
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 499 Post(s)
Liked 285 Times
in
222 Posts
Hi all, I have a Ron Cooper frame, I think 80s though can't be sure.
It has a threaded seatpost clamp which I'm trying to find a bolt for. It's close to M8 but doesn't fit various M8 bolts I've tried, so I'm guess it's an imperial thread. Could anyone help me narrow it down so I can order the right thing?
It has a threaded seatpost clamp which I'm trying to find a bolt for. It's close to M8 but doesn't fit various M8 bolts I've tried, so I'm guess it's an imperial thread. Could anyone help me narrow it down so I can order the right thing?
I'm sorry I should not do this to a new member... first, WELCOME!
Now...Sorry, Impossible bolt to find. Please send useless frame to: E Smith, Box 1000, Northvale Post Office, Northvale NJ, 07647
Back to regular scheduled programming. I don't know the answer. When you have 10 posts, post a picture of the seat cluster. That will help if not already answered. I have a Witcomb with a threaded bolt, which i can get measured, if they are similar. Please post pics (many) of your Cooper, BTW, there is a RC appreciation thread in C&C. Lots of fans here.... Edit: Trust Doug's answer...
p1974 Witcomb Track Bike
__________________
I seem to have lost what little mind I had left before this all started.
I seem to have lost what little mind I had left before this all started.
Last edited by Last ride 76; 07-13-20 at 11:25 AM.
Likes For Last ride 76:
07-13-20, 11:31 AM
#5
Senior Member
This may be blasphemy to some but...
You could always drill out the threads and tap in a helicoil of a more common size.
You could always drill out the threads and tap in a helicoil of a more common size.
07-13-20, 11:42 AM
#7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Thanks, I'll try this!
07-13-20, 11:43 AM
#8
Junior Member
Thread Starter
07-13-20, 11:44 AM
#9
1/2 as far in 2x the time
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Northern Bergen County, NJ
Posts: 1,746
Bikes: Yes, Please.
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 499 Post(s)
Liked 285 Times
in
222 Posts
Shipping takes so little time. Ron Cooper built that frame. By himself. Alone. I did mine over because 2 tubes were smashed.
What size is it, and where are you located? I'll trade some pretty great frames for it if you're interested. I'm kinda a fan of his work.
What size is it, and where are you located? I'll trade some pretty great frames for it if you're interested. I'm kinda a fan of his work.
__________________
I seem to have lost what little mind I had left before this all started.
I seem to have lost what little mind I had left before this all started.
07-13-20, 11:51 AM
#10
1/2 as far in 2x the time
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Northern Bergen County, NJ
Posts: 1,746
Bikes: Yes, Please.
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 499 Post(s)
Liked 285 Times
in
222 Posts
Glad to see your post. Yep, 7/32 Allen key, I'd be willing to bet Doug is correct with the rest too.
1974 Witcomb seatpost bolt w/ 7/32 Allen wrench.
1974 Witcomb seatpost bolt w/ 7/32 Allen wrench.
__________________
I seem to have lost what little mind I had left before this all started.
I seem to have lost what little mind I had left before this all started.
Likes For Last ride 76:
07-13-20, 12:20 PM
#11
Disraeli Gears
While it will be fairly cheap to find a 5/16-24 screw and try the thread, my guess is that Doug Fattic knows better. FWIW, Fastenal sells 5/16-22 socket head cap screws in black oxide finish (not particularly corrosion-resistant) by the piece:
https://www.fastenal.com/product/fas...FamilyId=30892
They appear to have 1" and 1-1/2" length. Pricey at over $10, but maybe an answer.
So does a joint called RC Fasteners in AZ, though they don't list prices:
https://www.rcfastener.com/516-22x11...oyblack/813238
Also Empire Bolt & Screw, though they don't provide sufficient information, IMO.
https://www.fastenal.com/product/fas...FamilyId=30892
They appear to have 1" and 1-1/2" length. Pricey at over $10, but maybe an answer.
So does a joint called RC Fasteners in AZ, though they don't list prices:
https://www.rcfastener.com/516-22x11...oyblack/813238
Also Empire Bolt & Screw, though they don't provide sufficient information, IMO.
Last edited by Charles Wahl; 07-13-20 at 12:28 PM.
Likes For Charles Wahl:
07-13-20, 12:43 PM
#12
framebuilder
Glengarry, just for reference on who I am, I am an American that learned how to build bicycle frames in England in 1975. Before that time I had ordered several British frames from well known builders like Bill Hurlow and Hetchins. They all used 5/16" X 22 teeth per inch bolts. In my case they were 1" long. I'm very familiar with what bolt you need. Sometimes if the binder stands alone (without the seat stays coming into it - like the picture of the frame from Last ride 76) the bolt might be shorter. In any case if you get a 1" socket head cap screw (that is the term you use when doing a google search), it can be cut a little shorter or stick out a bit.
You do NOT want to try using a metric or American bolt! There are suppliers of British thread bolts in the US. Here is one in Lyons NY: https://britishfasteners.com/socket-...x-1-2260z.html. They cost 80 ¢ apiece. They have them in stock. You are asking for a 5/16" X 22 BSF socket head cap screw that is 1" long (that length does not include the length of the head, only the length of the treads).
You do NOT want to try using a metric or American bolt! There are suppliers of British thread bolts in the US. Here is one in Lyons NY: https://britishfasteners.com/socket-...x-1-2260z.html. They cost 80 ¢ apiece. They have them in stock. You are asking for a 5/16" X 22 BSF socket head cap screw that is 1" long (that length does not include the length of the head, only the length of the treads).
Likes For Doug Fattic:
07-13-20, 01:26 PM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,020
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4501 Post(s)
Liked 6,367 Times
in
3,663 Posts
Likes For merziac:
07-14-20, 11:44 AM
#14
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Glengarry, just for reference on who I am, I am an American that learned how to build bicycle frames in England in 1975. Before that time I had ordered several British frames from well known builders like Bill Hurlow and Hetchins. They all used 5/16" X 22 teeth per inch bolts. In my case they were 1" long. I'm very familiar with what bolt you need. Sometimes if the binder stands alone (without the seat stays coming into it - like the picture of the frame from Last ride 76) the bolt might be shorter. In any case if you get a 1" socket head cap screw (that is the term you use when doing a google search), it can be cut a little shorter or stick out a bit.
You do NOT want to try using a metric or American bolt! There are suppliers of British thread bolts in the US. Here is one in Lyons NY: [link] They cost 80 ¢ apiece. They have them in stock. You are asking for a 5/16" X 22 BSF socket head cap screw that is 1" long (that length does not include the length of the head, only the length of the treads).
You do NOT want to try using a metric or American bolt! There are suppliers of British thread bolts in the US. Here is one in Lyons NY: [link] They cost 80 ¢ apiece. They have them in stock. You are asking for a 5/16" X 22 BSF socket head cap screw that is 1" long (that length does not include the length of the head, only the length of the treads).
Thanks, I really appreciate you taking the time to respond. I've ordered myself a bolt per your suggestion and I'll let you know how I get on.
(Sorry for delayed response btw, I was only allowed five posts in the first 24 hours)
Likes For Glengarry:
07-14-20, 11:46 AM
#15
Junior Member
Thread Starter
(delayed response as I wasn't allowed to post more than five times in the first 24hrs)
Thanks for your interest and advice! It's 21.5" but I'm pretty attached to it I'm afraid. I'll make sure to post some pics when I can. It's good to know people around the world appreciate his work.
As a fan, you've probably found this already, but just in case you haven't, Ron was interviewed for The Bike Show radio program/podcast back in 2010. I can't post a link as a newbie, but if you google 'the bike show ron cooper' you'll find it
Last edited by Glengarry; 07-14-20 at 02:42 PM.
07-14-20, 12:05 PM
#16
1/2 as far in 2x the time
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Northern Bergen County, NJ
Posts: 1,746
Bikes: Yes, Please.
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 499 Post(s)
Liked 285 Times
in
222 Posts
(delayed response as I wasn't allowed to post more than five times in the first 24hrs)
Thanks for your interest and advice! It's 21.5" but I'm pretty attached to it I'm afraid. I'll make sure to post some pics when I can. It's good to know people around the world appreciate his work.
As a fan, you've probably found this already, but just in case you haven't, Ron was interviewed for The Bike Show radio program/podcast back in 2010. I can't post a link as a newbie, but if you good 'the bike show ron cooper' you'll find it
Thanks for your interest and advice! It's 21.5" but I'm pretty attached to it I'm afraid. I'll make sure to post some pics when I can. It's good to know people around the world appreciate his work.
As a fan, you've probably found this already, but just in case you haven't, Ron was interviewed for The Bike Show radio program/podcast back in 2010. I can't post a link as a newbie, but if you good 'the bike show ron cooper' you'll find it
__________________
I seem to have lost what little mind I had left before this all started.
I seem to have lost what little mind I had left before this all started.
07-14-20, 12:39 PM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Medford MA
Posts: 2,091
Bikes: Ron Cooper touring, 1959 Jack Taylor 650b ladyback touring tandem, Vitus 979, Joe Bell painted Claud Butler Dalesman, Colin Laing curved tube tandem, heavily-Dilberted 1982 Trek 6xx, René Herse tandem
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 964 Post(s)
Liked 1,451 Times
in
723 Posts
Aye, Ron Coopers are pretty special!
When I'm doing framebuilding, I try to think about his words in that interview.
When I'm doing framebuilding, I try to think about his words in that interview.
__________________
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
Likes For scarlson:
07-14-20, 01:18 PM
#18
mycocyclist
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Monkey Junction, Wilmington, NC
Posts: 1,230
Bikes: 1964 Schwinn Paramount P-13 DeLuxe, 1964 Schwinn Sport Super Sport, 1972 Falcon San Remo, 1974 Maserati MT-1, 1974 Raleigh International, 1984 Lotus Odyssey, 198? Rossin Ghibli, 1990 LeMond Le Vanquer (sic), 1991 Specialized Allez Transition Pro, +
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 907 Post(s)
Liked 811 Times
in
448 Posts
A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words, Especially If It's Of The Seat Stay Array?
A pic or two of your seat stay binding ears, and of the drive side of your Ron Cooper, would be absolutely fabulous.
07-14-20, 02:41 PM
#19
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Can't post a link as a newbie, but it's at --bikeforums.net/g/album/18502000
07-14-20, 02:59 PM
#20
mycocyclist
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Monkey Junction, Wilmington, NC
Posts: 1,230
Bikes: 1964 Schwinn Paramount P-13 DeLuxe, 1964 Schwinn Sport Super Sport, 1972 Falcon San Remo, 1974 Maserati MT-1, 1974 Raleigh International, 1984 Lotus Odyssey, 198? Rossin Ghibli, 1990 LeMond Le Vanquer (sic), 1991 Specialized Allez Transition Pro, +
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 907 Post(s)
Liked 811 Times
in
448 Posts
Pic Assist
(Remnants of a Columbus sticker?)
07-14-20, 03:07 PM
#22
mycocyclist
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Monkey Junction, Wilmington, NC
Posts: 1,230
Bikes: 1964 Schwinn Paramount P-13 DeLuxe, 1964 Schwinn Sport Super Sport, 1972 Falcon San Remo, 1974 Maserati MT-1, 1974 Raleigh International, 1984 Lotus Odyssey, 198? Rossin Ghibli, 1990 LeMond Le Vanquer (sic), 1991 Specialized Allez Transition Pro, +
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 907 Post(s)
Liked 811 Times
in
448 Posts
Continuing Picture Assistance
Would you please post some photos of the underside of the bottom bracket, and the underside of the chainstay, and the dropouts?
Likes For machinist42:
07-14-20, 04:03 PM
#23
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Added them to the gallery - are they what you had in mind? Occurs to me I have no idea what the serial number means - I've tried some googling without much success.
07-14-20, 05:14 PM
#24
mycocyclist
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Monkey Junction, Wilmington, NC
Posts: 1,230
Bikes: 1964 Schwinn Paramount P-13 DeLuxe, 1964 Schwinn Sport Super Sport, 1972 Falcon San Remo, 1974 Maserati MT-1, 1974 Raleigh International, 1984 Lotus Odyssey, 198? Rossin Ghibli, 1990 LeMond Le Vanquer (sic), 1991 Specialized Allez Transition Pro, +
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 907 Post(s)
Liked 811 Times
in
448 Posts
Hmmmm.
(I am not familiar with that serial number format in connection with Ron Cooper.)
May I suggest taking photographs outside on a sunny day, but in the shade, and removing the wheels? I'd like to see the way the stays were finished.
07-16-20, 09:50 AM
#25
Junior Member
Thread Starter
The treading used on binder bolts on British frames of the classic era is 5/16" X 22 BSF (British Standard Fine). These have threads that are a little finer (more teeth per inch) than British standard Whitworth. I don't know of an American supplier for these bolts. I got my tap from England. The socket wrench size you need to use on the socket head bolt that fits into the binder is 7/32". Even though American and metric socket wrenches kind of work, I wouldn't use them because their smaller size will round the socket a bit if any pressure is applied.
Likes For Glengarry:
