jyl

I have never owned or ridden Campagnolo Delta brakes, but I think they are gorgeous. However, everyone seems to agree that they aren't very good brakes. Lack stopping force, I gather.

My question is, why are they not very good brakes? Is it the linkage, the geometry, the materials? Has anyone tried modifying Deltas to improve these factors?

jiangshi

There is nothing wrong with Delta's, other than the patience needed to set them up properly. They modulate nicely, and can accept more modern pads.

gomango

Agreed.

I don't use them anymore, but can see the appeal.

juvela

have not used or worked with a set. recall hearing this from others at the time:

users reported some snags at launch. subsequently withdrawn for a brief time and relaunched in a modified form.

if this is correct one would want to know if a given set is "mk.i" or "mk.ii."

gfk_velo

Campag Deltas mark the start of my relationship with the Campagnolo technical team, so I am very fond of them - back in 1987 I rocked up at the door of the Campagnolo factory as a rather brash team mechanic, Deltas in hand and said - "OK, you guys make these things, you tell me how to make them work" or words to that effect ...

Basically the brake needs careful set-up as a couple of respondents above have mentioned - also the correct lever, to get sufficient cable pull to actuate the brake at the correct ratio and generate sufficient mechanical advantage at the brake blocks when they contact the rim.

The Campagnolo Powergrade levers work well in this respect, with the cable pull set to "maximum".

We run our Deltas on the racing tandem (yes, you did read that right) with the current Campagnolo TT bar-end brake levers and Nokon cables (as the route through the bars is a bit tortuous) and they stop us well - one of the key things to note, though, is not to be tempted to try and run the brake blocks too close to the rim - they operate best with around a 2 mm spacing between the brake blocks and a 21 mm rim ... this gives something close to the optimal mechanical advantage in the linkage system.

Good lubrication of the linkages, careful alignment of the brake blocks and the most positive possible connection between lever and caliper completes the picture, as with any other brake ...

repechage

I can mention that at "relaunch" they worked best with traditional cable routing, not the "aero" option of the original levers.
The Nokon cable housing is interesting, not Classic, but I can see the advantages.
Yes, they needed a true wheel and tire size was limited, I found 25 mm tires were marginal, 23 mm tubulars best as the biggest.
I happen to like the later Chorus Deltas a bit more.
I do not have them on any of my bikes.

Chombi

They are kryptonite to a weight weenie! Requires a hokey sized 3.5mm Allen wrench and nobody ever figured out what to do with the ends of the brake cables at the calipers....
Plus they supossedly lose their progressive feel as the pads wear down...... anodizing on the calipers is also quite thin and scratches and wears too easily....
Send yours to me and I will add them to the sack of Delta calipers I am using for a counterweight on my pumpkin catapult!

gomango

Welcome Repechage!

Missed your excellent posts!

calamarichris

Just ride with the Dura Ace AX cam brakes for a season or two--guaranteed to make your Delta brakes seem stronger and have more feel, etc.

DMC707

Do any of you guys' have a line on where to get the pad and pad holder? I have a set with no pads or holders --- i bolted up a set of pads from another Campy brakeset i had, but the reach is way too short

What was said about the anodizing is absolutely correct -- i kept mine in the top tray of one of my toolboxes for years - (big rollaway- 6' off the ground -- not jumbled up with other stuff) -- but mine are scratched to heck just from wiping the dust off of them periodically --
but would look cool on a time trial frame i am building up

Citoyen du Monde

I have ridden with 28 mm tires if you set the height adjustment right. I suppose you mean Croce D'Aune not Chorus.

72Paramount

I have a pair of second gen. deltas and the pads were worn but seemed ok, put them on my Merckx Telekom, adjusted the caliper as tight as possible, and they still wouldn't contact the rim. The rims were 19mm campy.... Way too narrow plus the worn pads, so back they went into the parts been, and I stuck the thick campy monoplanes (Athena) back on.

gomango

FWIW I found the best use for the sets of Deltas on my shelf!

Selling them and padding my bike account.

Very hard to beat Campy Chorus Skeletons with the dual pivot rear. When you add Kool Stops you are really set for double digit grades on the descent. The pads on the Deltas were not confidence inspiring if you were descending for an extended period in the mountains. Imho

verktyg 

"Modulation" is a lame excuse for brakes that don't stop well!

I have 3 bikes that came with Deltas: An Eddy Merckx Corsa with a Croce D'Aune gruppo. I haven't ridden it much but they stopped about as well as average 1970's brakes like Weinmann 500 side pulls! For now the bike is a wall hanger...



I also have a "brace" (a pair) of 1991 Lemond TeamZ replicas. One has about 100 miles on it, the other has never been on the ground. They have 1991 C-Record gruppos with matching Delta brakes. Needless to say they're wall hangers too.



I have a Campy 3.5mm hex key for tightening the cable clamps but someone suggested that I needed another special Campagnolo tool - the #1



verktyg

Chas.

rootboy 

Suitable for framing?

jyl

I thought this article was interesting

Inside the Campagnolo Delta Brake - Bike Hugger

verktyg 

Nice @rootboy

I always thought that the Delta front covers had an erotic look...

verktyg

Chas.

crank_addict

I rather compare the words 'modulation in brakes' to 'what is the best saddle'. What works for one may not for another.

One thing I get a kick out of is experimenting with the array of vintage bike brakes. Too much for review here plus I have no qualification to talk of improving Delta's.

But for talk of modulation and the safety aspect, think of ABS brakes on a car and now on motorcycles. Though its not often used on racecars but the idea is not wanting to run out of enough brake, fade yet want 'feel' without locking up.

Multiply the importance of this on a two wheeled vehicle having a high center of gravity, two tiny contact patches. Most crucial on wet pavement, trail braking, a decreasing radius corner and or adjusting for any potential surprise.

Dave Mayer

I rode on the last generation of Record Deltas. They had been set up by a team-level Campy mechanic. They weren't too bad: stopping power was somewhere between the C-Record single pivots and the excellent first generation Record dual-pivots.

But they are heavier than the dual-pivots, and much harder to set up. Plus over time they would fill up with road crap. So no point in riding these.

If you want excellent older brakes for actual riding, hunt down some Dura-Ace 7403 dual pivots. These have never been surpassed.

jyl

Jeez, tell that lady to cross her legs.

Chombi1 

Uhmmm...... "Delta Bondage" Art??.....

Drillium Dude 

One thing that impressed me the only time I've ever held a pair of Deltas: they were unexpectedly light. I really expected them to weigh waaaay more than they did.

No experience other than that. None of my bikes are worthy of a pair, IMHO. Well, maybe the Somec. Nothing else seems specialist enough to warrant Deltas. Lucky thing, too, as Ebay still says these go for crazy money, used or not.

DD

Chombi1 

Uhmmm....light?? I dunno,.....I remember weighing my Deltas and the calipers weigh easily twice as much as my Mafac/Spidel LS2 sidepulls (which I don't consider as weenie weight brakesets).....
I think they are heavy, as far as 80's brakesets go......

Reynolds 

If I had those Deltas I'd never even think of "modifying" them... Maybe build a wood and glass display case for them.

Chombi

In the end, I don't think there's any practical way to improve the Deltas. Heck!, Campgnolo went through at least four revisions on their design trying to improve the calipers adding joints to the mechanism as they went, and I think they never came up with anything that matches or exceeds the performance of the best sidepullls of the day....