bikesdirect_com

Hi

We are doing a Ti framed ATB light weight hard tail
and we know the market on that is enough to sell out everytime they come in

I keep looking at this frame in my office and thinking - 'maybe, I should do a Ti road bike or two"

Ti frames are much more expensive than CF frames [twice as much]
Ti are way more than High Grade steel [4 times as much]
Ti frames are way way more than high grade light weight AL [10 times as much]
and Ti is aboout 30 times the price of lower end aluminum frames like on everyone's entry road bike

Are there enough customers who want Ti and appreciate it's special character & benefits that can pay that type of price?

If you assume the best made Ti frame in Asia, what is a good maketable price for Full Ultegra? for Full Dura Ace? [assuming Ouzo forks, WCS cockpit and wheels] {frame work is perfect from what I can see}

I really like Ti as an exotic material as the ride is closer to high grade steel and us old guys like that; but what do you think?

Related question; if you are riding a Carbon Fiber bike, would you have gone for Ti instead if it were the same price or very close?


thanks for any info you might give me

mike

skinny

It's a niche market. I think a complete bike with some 105 for ~$2000.00 would get you some play though. Can you do that?

roadfix

Come out with a Ti road frame (not track) with 120mm track ends. I'll definitely buy one.

rruff

I like Ti for it's low-maintenance corrosion-free finish as anything. I guess you are looking at frames with straight-gauge tubing that weigh in the ~3.5 lb range? That is one advantage that carbon and even aluminum have... less weight. I expect to loose more than a pound with the group frame buy you are doing (with a lighter fork as well). But I think there will always be a market for Ti even if you have to charge ~$1500 for the complete bike, compared to $1100 for the aluminum framed bikes. It probably won't be a huge seller, though.

bikesdirect_com

I can do that easy
I am thinking something nicer than that
The frame I am looking at is really nice

But I understand I do need a complete bike at under $2000 as the starter one

skinny

You obviously know your competition better than I, but I don't see you competing with Litespeed or Moots or the like. While with alu bikes you are competing with the big boy's low end, with ti the big boys have really abandoned the low end and focused on marketing the longevity and unigueness of ti for a premium. Does Litespeed have anything under 3000.00 anymore? Kona has just brought out a new ti offering. Others are out there. But it appears to me the low end market for complete ti bikes is wide open. And ti does have a unique marketing hook.

The weight issue is really irrelevant. Most alu and cf frames weigh in around 3lbs anyway, so it's all about perceptions.

ridethecliche

I don't have the disposable income to spring almost 2 grand for a Ti bike, but I know there will be an interest. If you offer the frameset separately without any decals, then there might be even more interest.

My only concern for you would be the fact that most of the Ti bikes on the market come from low quantity high quality manufacturers who have built themselves a name by building up boutique bikes. While BD Motobecanes offer a great bang for the buck, they don't tend to have the boutique name and feel, so my feeling is that you might get much more business if you offer the bikes as well as decal-less frames.

brians647

My first reaction is "no." Ti framed bikes are bought as much for their elite boutique aura, as they are for their elite boutique frame construction. Unfortunately, you aren't really talking about either. IMO, there just isn't enough demand for ti by the general public to make it a very profitable venture.

However, you just used the term "easy" to make an Ultegra kitted ti bike for under $2k, so I may be wrong.

bikesdirect_com

You might be right but........This maybe one of the most shocking things you will read on BF
I am not really doing this to make money

Building Ti bikes that are Motobecanes would be part of my 20 year plan to change the entire placement of Motobecane in the market. The reason I would build and sell the Ti bikes would be for image. Question is it a good use of resources; or am I better off with just more CF bikes?

Same question actually applies to lugged high end steel; no money to be made in that, but image points might be good.

We are also doing well on that front with more & more racers on Motos; but lets face it; in the USA few go to races. But there are lots of group rides where a Ti Moto would get a lot of attention, I think. If we can just get enough riders on them.

Ih8lucky13

If you want image points; improve your website.

I am still waiting for the Phantom Cross Pro.

JeffS

I think it would sell.

Twice what one of your carbon frames costs you, is probably next to nothing - and shouldn't effect the price very much.

I think it's highly dependent on the perceived quality of the frameset.

A better example might be to say:

- An immortal spirit bike is selling for $1995 (carbon frame, DA (fsa cranks) - ritchey protocol wheels)
- this bike would cost ________ with a ti frame

- A le champion SL is selling for $1995 (aluminum, Record, ritchey protocol)
- this bike would cost __________ with a ti frame

bikesdirect_com

[QUOTE=Ih8lucky13;5237178.

I am still waiting for the Phantom Cross Pro.[/QUOTE]


Latest news: should ship in a week or 10 days
be here October 15th or so
sorry we ran out

bikesdirect_com

Hard to say exactly
But I think we are looking at Immortal Spirit level spec for $2500 with Ouzo fork

ridethecliche

I don't know if I would be comfortable buying a bike that cost that much without inspecting it myself first...

And this is even if I knew it fit. The bike I bought from you had the wheels and a few other things outta whack and I had to pay to get it all fixed up because I didn't know how to at that point of time. I still don't know how to do it all myself, so I'd prefer to do it with a friend or something.

Point being, if you're going to remove the middleman as far as bike shopping goes, then you should ensure that your parts are being shipped out properly tuned up and trued. I know cables stretch, but a once over before shipping is integral. Also consider, better boxes that ensure that the bikes reach their destination in better shape. It's really not hard to put together a bike the way it comes boxed, but wheels are a different issue for newbies.

You might need to hire more staff and actually get a toll free phone number before that happens. Emailing you just doesn't work very well if something runs into a problem. It'd be much easier to issue RMA's and the like if you had a phone number.

I still think it'd be awesome if you offer a ti frame/frameset even if it has decals.

roadfix

Of course, the first thing people will do on this Ti frame is to melt the decals off which is easily done on raw Ti frames.

Idioteque

group buy TI frame, no decals, sign me up!

mr_tom

https://www.setavento.com/Setavento_S...e_Photos.shtml

Happy shopping!

Mitro

I'd personally be more interested in a high end steel bike than a ti bike. I've considered getting a ti bike for my next ride, but if I'm sinking that kind of money into a ti bike - I think that I'd search out for some NOS ti that I could test ride versus BD.

elemental

I would absolutely consider Ti for a new bike, but considering that I am in school and have no money it may not be realistic. Offering one frame with a few component spec options (105, Ultegra, DA- how about more SRAM offerings? I would love to see a Ti frame with Rival and Force components) would help you cover the market. Hell, the new Six13s come with Tiagras- what would a Ti-frame Tiagra bike cost? Talk about upgradability!

Yeah, removable decals are definitely in your best interest. Also, it doesn't seem like it would take much additional effort to sell it as a frameset. I imagine an entry-level Ti frameset could be a huge seller.

bikesdirect_com

This is sometimes true
but lots of buyers would prefer to keep their warranty in tact
[brands do not warranty bikes without decals to my knowledge]

And then there are those that like Motobecane on their bike
and would want to keep it

Really, we see the most 'decal' removal on track bikes; where you are not talking real money.

So far, all the $2000 Motos we bring sell out real quickly
I think the Ti would also -- IF there are enough customers who still want it

You see so little Ti and Steel in stores these days; and even in magazines, it is like it is not on the radar screen; that is my worry. Maybe no one really wants Ti too much anyone {although I like it a lot}

bikesdirect_com

Selling frameset is easy; would be about $1000

BUT removable decals are NOT in my best interest; in fact I do not care to sell Ti for the purpose of making money. I only benefit if the bikes are branded Moto and ridden

This would be something like the Fly Series to us: those bikes get ridden, get raced, people winning races on them and proud to be on them. So it benefits the brand. If Ti road bikes can not do that; then I would prefer to just buy more Flys or Nemesis or Immortals.

thanks
mike

Kurt Erlenbach

I think a titanium Motobecane with SRAM would be great.

MillCreek

I have an IF titanium Crown Jewel, that I absolutely love up here in the wet weather of the Seattle area. If you made a titanium cyclocross, like the Cross Pro, I would buy one in a heartbeat, especially if it took a rear rack and fenders. Disc brakes would be nice as well, but not essential, since I can get by with Ultegra calipers and Kool Stop salmon pads.

And I just looked on the MTB section of BD, and for the life of me, I could not see a titanium hardtail. Can anyone point me to this?

But yes, I think that BD would do quite well to offer a more affordable titanium road bike.

bikesdirect_com

I am thinking of Cross in Ti - makes sensde; but dics brakes are not legal to race - correct?
If we do it; it will be with eyelets for sure

Ti Fly team not in yet; will arrive in March or April
we showed it at Sea Otter Classic
frame work is top grade ; I must say.
I have a sample frame I look at everyday
and that is why I keeping thinking of Road Models

mike

zonatandem

Got rid of a Merlin Extralight and now riding a custom Zona carbon fiber single.
Yipes, what an improvement over ti!