Pukeskywalker

On performance level only, are modern dual-pivot caliper brakes the strongest choice to pair with non-aero levers? If not, what brake type works/feels best with non-aero? Assuming highest quality choices for all types (kool stop pads, etc).

People without the vintage bike gene say they dislike the "harder" feel of the non-aero lever, but the opposition retrogrouch prefers it to the aero style. One said the aero levers "disconnect the rider" from feeling the operation of the brake.

I'm asking because

1. the instagram celebrity UltraRomance and his ultra-hip dirt drop bikes like this one:



2. Not having to deal with bar-tape every time you change your brake situation (or move the handlebars to a diff bike) would be nice

mstateglfr 

- Cantis have worked great with non-aero levers for me. They work better than the 3 sidepull caliper brake models I have used with non-aero levers and better than the 2 centerpull models I have used. To me, centerpulls were next best. The Shimano 600 sidepulls were very good, though cantis flex less.

- I have used spring return, and non spring return levers. Aero levers and non aero levers. Aero levers work the best for me, but the 3 Aero levers I use right now are attached to either cantis or 600 calipers which are all better than what the non aero levers work with. So take that all with a grain of salt.

- I havent found that aero levers disconnect me from operating the bike. You know what disconnects me from operating the bike?...hitting something and flying off the bike because I didnt stop in time. Whatever brakes and levers get me to stop are OK by me.

- Instagram has celebrities? Mid30s and out of touch. I say it with pride.

- That bike is ultra hip? I guess. It looks nice and all, but what makes it ultra hip? It has one of those curved VO stems...is that made by someone else too? Otherwise, it looks like a 1Xwhatever geared rigid frame with disc brakes. He is carrying a bottle of wine, an accordion sleep pad, and the bike claims its cool thru the word COOL right on it.
Im sure its a fun bike, but I really dont get the picture. Is he about to go do an ultralight S24O and plans on drinking his dinner?

- I dont understand the bar tape and swapping to a different bike issue. For me, its the same amount of overall work regardless of if using aero or nonaero brake levers. Different work, sure, but same overall amount.

Pukeskywalker

Thanks for the reply. I am going to assume Mr. Romance uses them for aesthetic reasons more than anything else until I hear otherwise. Running them with road disc is funny but foppy without a technical advantage

Yes, Instagram has countless celebrities. Most of them would appeal to a mid-30s male more than Mr. Romance though, if you know what I'm saying. UltraRomance was the pinnacle of aspirational cool internet cycling of last year

The Golden Boy 

I'm using non-aero levers with cantis. They work well.

I'm using aero levers with a combination of dual pivot/single pivot sidepulls. They work about as well as the non-aero/canti combination.

What I like about non-aero levers, more than anything- is the ability to mount the old Mirrycle mirror on them- it puts the mirror in EXACTLY the perfect place. I also think the levers themselves look really great- graceful and everything.

What I like about aero levers- they do seem to be stronger- they seem to work "better" than the non-aero levers.

What I don't like about non-aero levers- the cables have to be routed well- there's a fine line between too short, too long and just right. There's also getting the cables to match in length and the way they route; over the bars, in front of the bars, left side of the stem/right side of the stem, if and where the cables cross... IMO- the pic in this thread- the cables look too short- but I also understand they're dirt drops, so I don't know how far 'in' they go.

What I don't like about aero levers- they don't have the gracefulness of the older levers. I don't think they look any more "sleek" or anything- either in design or without the cables out and about.

I get that newer levers are designed to feel like brifters, I also get that they're meant for more modern bar setups- I just don't think most modern levers are very good looking. Performance wise, IME- Aero levers are just "better" than non-aero levers. This is coming from a guy who has a bunch of bikes, but only one bike has aero levers. I'm strongly considering changing my Trek 720 over to some Aero Gran Compe levers, but again- I don't think they look as nice- and I have to figure out a mirror solution.

As far as the Instagram celebrity thing... I don't get it. I don't get the appeal of that bike either- if you love it- that's all good, I'm glad and it's awesome that you've got an inspiration for a bike. You should post your setup now and if/when you change it over. Do you have an idea of which levers you want to use, or haven't you gotten that far yet?

mstateglfr 

Huh. Ive seen countless drop bar conversions on this board that, to me, look incredible compared to Romance's 1Xwhatever build listed here.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...sions-162.html <----badger's Panasonic is one of dozens that just happens to stick out in my mind right now.


Is it now cool to declare that the bike is cool by literally labeling it as such? I kid...sorta.

John E

Cantis or caliper centerpulls with a short straddle cable work well. If you really want maximum braking force, aero brake handles offer an average of 10% more cable pull force (and, of course, 10% less cable travel -- nothing is free) than nonaeros.

crank_addict

Worthy to try something different. Pleasantly surprised.









In this case, using a front top bag with top feed brake plus shift cables are an interference issue and just not worth the aggravation. I also wanted more out of the brakes with leverage power while carrying a heavy load.

This combination greatly exceeds my expectation. Matter of fact, I have a brand new KoolStops set aside and that was planned for this rig, but found the existing old pads whatever these are, perfect.

Pukeskywalker

Thanks for all the info. I'm just curious. I don't have a bike I need to put brakes on yet, and I thought I was missing out on something.

Here's the ultraromance instagram page. I'm not a fan but you can see the appeal

https://www.instagram.com/ultraromance/?hl=en

Pukeskywalker

Wow, what is that thing you're using instead of a typical straddle cable?

crank_addict

Well since you asked, guess I'll let the secret out but imagine it might bring the demand and price up for them. There's variants of the design (Pauls Components) but these are Suntour Power Hanger's. Specifically for cantilevers and primarily the mtn. bike aftermarket. I don't have the answer to the involved physics but do think the linear pull of the stranded cable is advantageous vs. a radius stretch on a yoke.

For this build, these are older Dia Compe's 980 of some sort without adjustable arm spring balance. Levers are DC / Aero Gran Compe. I would've preferred a cantilever arm having an adjustable tension balance but our Golden Boy (above) generously donated these to the cause. And I certainly now dig them. Quirky looking and work beautiful. A single digit pull and with smooth actuation, they have a nice positive feel, especially for wet roads but in fair warning will lock if want to.

There's lots of gimmicks out there but this simple pivot concept clearly works as advertised. Plus its light in weight.
Though, this is not something adaptable to V-brakes and probably less of interest anyways to the vintage types. V-brakes are a whole different shebang.

Other details:
Always wanted to try the Power Hanger since they first intro'd them but only until decades later, did I follow through. G-boy had a partial NOS and then I found another NOS on flea-bay (and also partial kit). I had to make the missing special cable ends and cable links of which I think are neater than the OEM. Fairly simple too. Also took the time in debur of washers and the bushings, made some spacers. I didn't use grease to muck the fine operating pivots and instead use a light lube of Tri-flow. Once dialed in, its rather amazing simple it makes you laugh. I'll probably do the same for another cantilever equipped bike.

crank_addict

Crush on this.

Sinful and ugly, I put a pair of Tektro TT Quartz R725 on this retro build Viner. Mated to 1st gen Ergo-power levers. What the heck moment. A pair NOS including pads from the LBS...... $10. LOL

I might even be nutty enough to source another set, remove the black coating and use on a vintage build with TOP feed vintage levers.

BTW: Under heavy braking, I can visually see the fork blades flex inwards. Not joking. Fork is totally inadequate.

eschlwc

modern dual-pivots are the easiest to setup and provide great braking.

but that doesn't mean you can't obtain great braking with vintage calipers. my dura ace single-pivots work perfectly. and the mafac center-pulls on my '80 pkn10 gave me all the confidence i have ever wanted.

i only use non-aero levers, kool-stops, and my rims are perfectly true.

The Golden Boy 

You'll get plenty of opinions on it here!

When I do build up that *someday* bike, I think I'm going to end up using some modern levers like the TRP RRL- just because I know the modern, aero levers have better leverage than the old levers. But, again, I'm torn because, IMO, old, dual slotted levers look so much better.

To me, this is as good as brake levers look:




I get the appeal of enjoying the outdoors on your bike. There's some serious fun being pictured there.



EDIT: I can't believe I don't have a pic of my Gran Compe levers... Just the logo

Pukeskywalker

Thanks for sharing. Learning about old tech and secrets like that is great. I think the market is small enough there won't be a big run on them... hopefully

Pukeskywalker

Awesome. I'll going to look into reviews on these

jimmuller 

I must not understand the question. FWIW, I have Tektro double-pivot calipers paired with traditional DiaCompe levers on two bikes, Tektro with Weinmann levers on another. They work wonderfully.

How often do you expect to move the bar or the brakes from one bike to another? In any case, bar tape wears out soon enough if you ride enough so you have to redo it anyway. Brake cables will eventually become mangled if you are constantly undoing and redoing the anchor. So what's the question again?

That bike in the pic? I don't get that either. Or maybe I should just say it doesn't do much for me. Build up the bike you want, not what any SuperInstaSocialMediaSelfieBook superstarstud likes, and then ride it.

Lazyass

What's the difference between a non-aero lever and and aero lever as far as power is concerned? The cable routing has nothing to do with it. You mean non-SLR or single pivot vs dual pivot calipers?

Grand Bois

More force, more cable travel. They're not handles.

wheatfly

Interesting question, unfortunately I don’t have the experience to answer but I'm following along with what others say the brake levers.

As far as mister Ultra-Romance AKA Poppy is concerned I would say he is a celebrity. His bikes and this bike in particularly is nothing special but the guy piloting it is a character. He is living his dream and seems to be comfortable with his choices and himself which means marching to his own beat. He happens to share it on Instagram, so many like myself, can daydream or imagine what it is like to live an unconventional lifestyle. Here is a good article about the guy and how I first heard about him. I would suggest a read, I thought it was enjoyable.

Ultra Romance | Bicycling

I’m mid 30s and somewhat connected but can no way keep up with the next new things, or cool old things, and try not to get sucked in at least but I can't help but look and want. I’ve got a hand me down phone, and the same truck I bought when I was 16 but yes Instagram has lots of celebrities of all shapes and sizes!

I have a love hate relationship with Instagram. As a person with a VERY WIDE spectrum of hobbies and interests (literally I could have a full time job just trying to keep up with all my hobbies) Instagram is amazing for seeing what other people are doing in any niche or mainstream thing you can think of! Doesn’t matter what it is, you can likely find lots of cool pictures, videos clips, ideas, people just taking it to a whole nother level of whatever you are into. Instagram learns what you are into and just constantly feeds you more of that content, endless buffet really. I’m a visual person so Instagram just blows my mind with awesome stuff.

Now the down side is always seeing amazing pictures, people doing amazing things, physical feats, amazing talents, living their dream and I find that it can feed unhappiness because it just visualizes the wants, be it lifestyle, materials, posessions, etc. It makes it harder to be happy/content with what you have when you are constantly being exposed to more. I think facebook kindof has the same feeling. The more you see the more you want and it is all fictitious in some sense. Some instagram celebrities and/or accounts are overly fabricated but it is cool to see some people sharing that is not overly fabricated. You could probably say the same thing about forums, too. Maybe that’s just me. Plenty of good too, connecting with people and making friends that share your interests, maybe on a similar wave length, keeping up with old friends that are no longer in your regular sphere of influence but might cross paths with again, etc.

Well that's the end of my rant but thanks for listening, back on track with the original topic.