Smallwheels

The biggest motorcycles that get car like gas mileage are still more environmentally friendly because they weigh one third as much as a small car. Small to medium motorcycles or scooters weigh 180-450 pounds. even ridden solo they're saving resources compared to cars with two people in them. I've read in more than one place that half of the energy usage of a car happens when it is manufactured.

If we only talk about fuel mileage per passenger then cars can do better than medium to large motorcycles. A car with four people will do better than a Honda Metropolitan scooter that gets 93 miles per gallon carrying only one person.

I owned a Metropolitan scooter and it was fun. The thing about them is they're only operated at 100% occupancy. They can't be operated with less. Cars can be operated at one-quarter capacity or one-eighth capacity at any time for Suburbans. It's all the one person trips in cars that makes them seem so inefficient.

I used to get annoyed at seeing SUVs with one person occupancy. Now I just pretend that it's possible that the person just dropped off some people or is on the way to pick up several people.

Seeing more people on motorcycles will mean resources are being conserved during the manufacturing process. There's a whole lot less materials in motorcycles than even small cars.

raworkshop

This doesn't make much sense to me. I've been from Cape Breton, Nova Scotia to Monterrey, Mexico on 650 and 500cc bikes. If you mean keep it pegged at 85 slaying miles, yes, a big touring bike is necessary but above 45? Any Rotax 650 V-twin (V-Strom, SV650, Gladius) is well well more than adequate.

To anyone starting out, start small, start used, take the MSF course.

Metal Man

I bought a 2002 Suzuki GZ250 as a leftover in 2003 for $2500. It's been great I have about 13000 miles on it. I can't make it get under 70MPG. I can do 75 - 80MPH on somewhat level ground (it's reving like hell but it will do it). The problem with a motorcyle is it's hard to carry things on it.
This would be great.
https://rideyourbike.com/images/xtrac...motorcycle.jpg

akohekohe

I've got an order in for an Empulse but it looks like they won't have them out until 2012 sometime. Not good for long trips but still good for trips that you don't have enough time to bicycle. I'll power it with my PV system.

Smallwheels

I've seen a couple of brands available these days (not in person). For some people they really make sense. As a cost saving vehicle compared to other motorcycles their only savings will happen if they last a really long time. When power controllers and motors can truly deliver long lifetimes then they'll pay for themselves in savings. That's why I don't own an electric bicycle. The controllers burn out too fast and they cost a lot of money. Maybe Brammo and Vectrix have it figured out. Tesla still had problems with the test vehicles they loaned to magazines a year after production started.

Does anybody remember the Sparrow three wheel electric one person car made by Corbin Motors? With three wheels they were classified as motorcycles. They looked great and ran fine. Still their controllers were wonky. A company in Ohio (Myers Motors) bought all of their manufacturing facilities and moved them. They sold the new versions for $30,000 when anybody could buy a Prius for less.

bluefoxicy

I wear Bellville 770 boots and they are very comfortable in the hot summer.

I've driven 47,000 miles since I was 16. I've biked 4 or 5 times more miles since March than I've driven any car with even a single passenger, ever. My car's been used a few times to haul things that don't haul on my bike--mainly a large Go board, and much stuff that I moved with (clothes), as well as my spin drier.

So aside from maybe 250 miles of driving in the past 10 years, the primary feature of my car is it allows me to listen to and sing along with music. It is effectively a rolling stereo system.

What slightly annoys me is all the 200-250 cc bikes that "are just enough for the highway," then the next model up is a big 650cc. Why not a 350cc? Ah well, the new Kawasaki 250 has more low-to-mid power in exchange for a little less peak HP, which will get you moving (more torque).

Smallwheels

I totally agree with this sentiment.

Big cars or big motorcycles don't cost that much more to manufacture than smaller ones. The number of parts isn't that much more. It is just that usually higher priced cars or motorcycles have slightly better materials. They have some more metal too. The prices are just higher for the more popular or desired vehicles. The bigger they are the more the companies charge for them. That especially goes for motorcycles.

My ideal motorcycle doesn't exist. I don't know if it ever will. I want hydraulic valves, easy access to a twist off oil filter, easy access to the air cleaner, shaft drive, cast wheels (I hate cleaning spoke wheels), a fat flat seat, upright seating position, at least five inches of front and rear suspension travel, large fuel tank, triple tree mounted instrumentation, and an engine smaller than 600 ccs that is counter balanced.

bluefoxicy

I always thought upright seating on motorcycles was silly. Now that I ride my bike to work, and I've mis-adjusted the seat too forward, I'm finding that I indeed hate the upright seating position on bicycles. That's why I'm looking at road bikes and only looking at sports motorcycles... of course my taste in them is similar to my taste in sports cars (Mazda MX-5 Miata mmmm).

XR2

Motorcycles are better than automobiles overall as long as you look at the whole picture. Less raw material,less energy to make, less consumption,less of them and a smaller footprint. Statistics can be juggled to say virtually anything you'd like them to. There are "studies" stating they're "dirtier" than automobiles. Only when approached from the right angle. The average motorcycle engine is far smaller than the average automobile engine and covers less miles per year using less fuel so it'd have to be very "dirty" to eclipse the automobile's contribution to pollution. Not as green as a bicycle but far better for society than an automobile.

Fajita Dave

Sorry for the very long post. I really wasn't going to reply but there is a lot of information that has been missing in this thread!

I don't know where some of you people were getting your information from. Someone said 600-1000cc sportbikes only get 20-30mpg? Thats what my GSX-R600 gets at a track day racing full out. On the street I average 50mpg with my sportbike.

As far as maintenance goes, I have 22,000 miles on my 2008 gsx-r600 since I bought it new in August 2008, I get 7,000 miles out of my $300 set of tires, lube the chain once every 2 weeks (unless it rains), checked my valve clearance once at 14,000 miles which did not need any adjustment, changed my air filter twice, and everything else has been ticking like a Rolex watch with almost no maintenance required. As for not being "fast enough" because its only 600cc it accelerates from 0-60mph in 3.0 seconds depending on how much you weight and tops at 80mph in 1st gear faster than most cars get from 0-45mph. The 130HP that it makes is more than a Mazda Miata which weighs over 2,000lbs where as my motorcycle weights 420lbs. This motorcycle is built for performance! If you are only riding on the street getting a motorcycle with this performance is ludicrous. I only have this motorcycle because I go to track days on professional road courses with it and it doubles as transportation on the street. You can get much more economical machines that are still plenty fast and safe enough for the street without needing a large motorcycle.

Heres some examples:
DRZ-400 is a 400cc dual sport which gets 65mpg average. (they said my bike gets 42mpg but I've gotten over 50mpg on it). This bike also requires much less maintenance than my sportbike requires and you can get tires for it which will last around 8,000miles+ for $200 or less for the set. Its also a very capable off-road machine if you know how to ride off-road. Although for a dual sport I'd say its close to minimum of what you'd want for highway but I know people who have no trouble doing it everyday for their commute. You can go up to the DR650 if you want which is excellent on highway.
https://suzukicycles.com/Product%20Li...gory=dualsport

Honda CBR250R. Gets 77mpg+ Even though this sportbike is only 250cc its still tops out around 100mph and accelerates plenty fast for the street. Its only $4,000 new. Honda used to make a 500cc but I guess the sales weren't good enough.
https://powersports.honda.com/2011/cbr250r.aspx

Kawasaki Ninja 250R is pretty much the same as the Honda but its been around longer. I know people who have downgraded to this motorcycle after riding big fast motorcycles their whole life because they found it more fun and enjoyable.
https://www.kawasaki.com/Products/Pro...?scid=6&id=505

Sorry to make this long post on here but I'd like for you to get the right information before you decide. There is about $1000+ of gear that you should buy before riding one (helmet, jacket, gloves, pants, boots). Boots aren't 100% necessary but your ankles can be an easy joint to injure if hit the wrong way. It can get hot during summer but its ALWAYS going to be hot when its 100 degrees out. Mesh jackets can actually be cooler because they let air flow but keep the sun off your skin. Besides I'd rather sweat than bleed if I fall.

For winter riding you can get a heated vest/gloves, face mask along with the vents closed on your riding pants which will keep you plenty warm until about 10-20 degrees F. Just make sure to minimize the air that makes it down your jacket and on your neck. I do ride below freezing temperature but if there is any chance of ice I choose to drive. If I had a dual sport like the DRZ-400 you can have someone make studded tires for you and you'd be very surprised how much grip you'll have on ice.

Motorcycles are no more at risk of being in an accident than if you were riding your bike or in a car. Its up to your situational awareness to keep safe. If your not paying attention than you might get hit by other people who aren't paying attention. Besides the vast majority of motorcycle accidents are single vehicle accidents. That means the rider didn't get the proper training and wrecked on their own. Not all accidents can be avoided like people running red lights but most can be avoided simply by paying attention to other motorists around you! Also taking the MSF course to get your license is a great idea. Not only will you get a discount on insurance but you'll learn some good basic habits that you need for motorcycling (and a lot of the apply to bicycles as well). Motorcycling isn't for everyone but if you like bicycles chances are you'll like motorcycles too. You should be able to find quite a few used dual sports and a few Ninja 250s to buy pretty cheap.

If your going to be traveling alone than carpooling isn't a factor to consider for efficiency. Besides three reasonable motorcycles has about the same MPG as one car but the three motorcycles still take up less space and have less materials used so the environmental impacts are lower. Modern fuel injected motorcycles burn fuel just as cleanly as cars do. The small motorcycles like I mentioned are still carbureted, however their high fuel efficiency makes up for the difference. Also stock motorcycles ARE NOT LOUD. Its attention craving idiots who make them loud. You'll have a hard time hearing a stock DRZ-400 ride by you because its so quiet.

coldehammer

To the OP, you're on the right track if it's called the fun track. =)

I own two bicycles, a japanese sports bike, and a 4WD truck. What do I have the most fun on? Probably the sports bike but I am most gratified when I ride my bicycles. In opposition to some of the others posts, I get 40mpg driving aggressive and have only done an oil change every 2,000 miles for the low low cost of $10. The great thing about sportsbikes that most of the general public don't like is the advantage of doing the work yourself in maintenance still. You want to do a tune up on your 2011 Prius, good luck with that buddy.

Most motorcycle enthusiasts do the basic maintenance because it's so simple and easy which cuts down the labor cost. Even if I wanted to bring it to a shop, they only charge me $20 out the door for an oil change.

Tires are not expensive either in my opinion compared to the overall cost of ownership. 5 yr old Kawasaki Ninja goes for about $2400. Find me a car well equipped at that price that won't have maintenance or major repair issues. Tires at $250 for a set of two. Do the math. I can buy four sets of tires and it will still come out cheaper than overhauling a late 90's car.

Plus, motorcycles are FUN!!! (Lane split, no traffic, park anywhere, a sense of moving)

Artkansas 

The current crop of 250cc motorcycles are pretty amazing. They can reach top speeds close to what my old Honda CB400F did.

Yes, they give you more range than a bicycle. But as another poster mentioned, it's cold on top of a motorcycle. So unless you are in the southwest, it may not be a year-round machine. And rain gets pretty painful at speed.

Definitely get yourself a full set of leathers. They will be expensive, but may hold you together should you try to investigate the possibilities of road rash. Take a riding course as well.

I admit my mind has been wandering towards motorcycles lately. But I think about my step-brother out riding his motorcycle when he got run over last year by a school bus that did a left turn, illegally. Bicycling is certainly no protection against being hit by a vehicle. But it seems that things can happen faster and harder on a motorcycle.

Roody

There''s a time or two I wished I was wearing leathers on my bicycle.

shawmutt

Gave up my motorcycle and miss it . It was my first ever brand new vehicle, a 2007 Suzuki Vstrom. That bike carried me everywhere, back and forth through my daily 60 mile commute, a 3 day, 1500 mile tour up through Canada, monthly jaunts with my biking buddies, camping trips, there was nothing me and that bike didn't do. Here's a few pictures for those interested:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1086309...eat=directlink

I rode all year long, I used the same Olympia gear for the 5 years I rode, jacket and pants with zip-out liners and Redwing 980 motorcycle boots kept me dry on all but the rainiest days. Gerbing heated gloves kept my fingers toasty on the cold days. My fourth year on the bike and my wife finally got her own gear to ride with me.

Then I nearly crashed--guy in front of me slammed on the brakes, I locked up my rear wheel and would have slid under his truck if I went down. Thankfully I remained upright and just hit his rear bumper. Broke the fender, but that was it. He didn't even realize I hit him and kept going. I pulled over and spent a few shaky minutes contemplating where I was in life and my two toddlers and young wife back home. That planted the seed for the eventual sale. All the other excuses--the PITA gear, the maintenance, the lack of a side car for the kids--they were just that, excuses.

I replaced the fender and sold it to a lucky guy who was nice enough to send pictures of a tour he took her on a few weeks later--they'll get along just fine.

Now with new (to us) bicycles for my wife and I, and a trailer for the kids, I embark on a whole new adventure.

HaChayalBoded

Cold? What were you wearing, where were you riding, what were you riding?

I've ridden in sub freezing temperatures for up to 12hrs at a time and never felt a chill. If you're dressed properly you won't be cold. Oh and this was before I switched to heated clothing.

There is a ride I do every year called the crotona midnight run. It's the last weekend in February in NY, closest to the coldest day of the year. Starts at midnight, goes to 6am. Never had any trouble wearing the right gear.

HaChayalBoded

Where are you getting your information from? My 17 or so Hondas, Kawasaki, and Armstrong required zero maintenance other than routine (oil, brake pads, e.t.c.). I think I owned roughly 40 motorcycle in the last 20 years. Sportbikes only fall into that scenario when children ride the crap out of them. I can't even look at a psort bike without getting backpain.

You sure you weren't riding a Harley?

Again, none of that is actually factual. Firstly it really depends on the type of bike and type of tires. You can ride a rocket with ultra soft sport tires that cost $250 a pop and last you barely 3000 miles. But you can also ride an average sport tourer or cruiser using touring tires that cost half that price and can get up to 20k miles. I have roughly 24k miles on my front tire on my Concours and it doesn't look very worn. I have 27k miles on the back tire on my shadow and it looks like new. Got the tires for like $60 each through a dealer friend of mine. I recently spent well over $1000 on fuel, but then again that was a 5 month tour around the US. $1000 on fuel and $120 on tires. If you're spending the same on tires as you are for fuel you are either not airing them up properly, burning out constantly or keep running over nails. Stop doing that.

I find them practical. I do not need to spend 3 hours driving around the block to look for a parking spot, nor spend $40 to park a car in NYC. I can get a months groceries in it (large panniers, top case). And they are great for long trips. My longest trip was only 5 months but many friends of mine have taken trips lasting YEARS circumnavigating the globe. I think you simply didn't enjoy it or were on the wrong bike. It's not for everyone I guess.

BTW I've been riding for nearly 20 years.

HaChayalBoded

You can speak to the dead********************??

HaChayalBoded

Thats far from everyone and everybike. Thats usually the Harley crowd with their loud obnoxious pipes and they have to rev it up at every light because they think it makes them look cool. Believe me, not everyone is like that and there are plenty of us who ride quit non obnoxious motorcycle.

HaChayalBoded

Where do you live? I ride year round. I'm in NY. Heated clothing, big fairing and windshield make riding in sub freezing temps a non issue.

HaChayalBoded

Nah, I can carry .9 people easily. Sometimes I even carry a whole person. Also sidecars are great for bringing the dog along.

HaChayalBoded

a 600cc Honda shadow has all that. Actually, most 60's-70's standards do too. You might also like the bonneville.

doh, missed the shaft drive part, ok then, a mid 80's honda nighthawk s is shaft driven as has the rest of that. it's a 650 though, can you deal with an extra 46 or so cc's?

Smallwheels

The Bonneville has spoke wheels and weighs way too much. The Honda does have some of the things I want, but; the seat slants forward and the foot pegs are almost under the rider, which makes the rider lean forward a bit. I also don't want to buy something old that would nit pick me do death. The Nighthawk also weighs nearly five-hundred pounds.

These days I prefer scooters or other tiny motorcycles. Two-hundred-fifty CCs is the most I would want now. My Kawasaki Vulcan was fun and quick enough for me. It just wasn't as comfortable as I wanted it to be. It had only three inches of rear wheel travel and one inch was used up as soon as I sat on it. When I had a dual purpose Honda XL 250 S I could ride over rumble strips on the side of the road without even feeling the bumps. Riding it off road was usually a blast too. Unfortunately dual sport bikes cost hundreds more than strictly street motorcycles with the same engine size.

Roody

You are quite the enthusiast.

Elkhound

I have a scooter. I like the low center of gravity, the step-through frame, and the automatic transmission. I use it when I am going farther than I'm comfortable with on a bicycle or if I don't want to get there all sweaty & disgusting.

littledog

The Suzuki TU 250 is a great small motorcycle. Not as fast as the other 250's but still excellent around town. I am very happy with mine.