Olympianrider

Here’s a question for the vintage-bike experts –

I am in the process of upgrading an old vintage bicycle, and am hoping some of you may be able to offer advice on chain selection.I am using a vintage frame with old style 120 mm spacing (and I don’t want to alter the frame to fit something larger). I’ve just ordered a vintage Sun Tour New Winner freewheel, with “ultra” spacing between cogs.

According to the info I've found online, this freewheel fits into the standard 120 mm space. But because it uses slightly narrower space between gears, you’re able to get six cogs on the gear cluster, rather than the standard five. This particular freewheel seems to have quite a following – I gather it was highly regarded in the late '70s and early '80s. But none of the webpages tell me the best chain to use.

Back when these were new, I assume there really wasn't much choice -- a chain was a chain. But in the ensuing years we've seen narrower and narrower chains hit the market as rear gear clusters add enormous numbers of gears. Since the spacing between gears on this particular freewheel is slightly narrower than standard, I’m thinking a slightly narrower chain might be a good idea. Some posters on this forum in the past have mentioned that they have gotten good results with chains designed for Shimano 7-speed systems.

But I gather that there may be a tradeoff. It sounds like a narrower chain increases the chance you might drop the chain between gears when shifting the front derailleur.

So let me just say that I am using a standard Campagnolo Nuovo Record triple crank in the front. Also, I'm using an all-friction setup (with a Nuovo Record derailleur on the front, a first-generation Campy Rally derailleur on the back, and Sun Tour bar-end shifters). Any recommendations on the chain type to use? And are some chains designed better than others?

Erik Smith
Olympia, WA

CycleryNorth81

I had an ultra 6 freewheel on my bike in the eighties. The chain that worked best during that time period was Sedisport.

big chainring 

I use Sram chains. Not sure of the model but it works on 5,6,7 speed freewheels. $20 at my local bike shop.

jcb3

I've always had good luck with 8 speed sram chains on 5, 6, 7 speed freewheels (including suntour ultra spacing)

plonz 

Charles Wahl

I had a New Winner Ultra 7-speed freewheel on one bike that worked fine for several years with a Sedisport chain; this was before masterlinks. I switched to an SRAM PC80, and while it worked fine, there was a slight "hitch" I could feel intermittently in the middle-most gears. The freewheel wasn't anywhere near worn. This bothered me enough that I replaced the FW with a Suntour 6 speed; problem solved. The SRAM chains are highly regarded; just reporting my personal experience. I thought about trying a Wipperman, but they're more expensive. Still have the Ultra freewheel, and may try it again on another bike sometime. Sedisport chains are not that easy to find nowadays, and anyway I like the convenience of a master link.

desconhecido 

I remember buying a couple of the Suntour ultra 6 speed freewheels back when. In order to get them to work properly, a new chain was in order. I don't know if the new chains (Sedisport being the popular one, and the brand that we bought) were any narrower than the previious 5 and 6 speed chains, but the rivets were different and didn't extend past the side plate making the space they needed a bit less. Also, the Sedisport chains were more flexible side-to-side than earlier chains wqhich gave better shifting.

As for sprocket spacing, ultra 6 is the same spacing as 7 speed and the same as Campagnolo 8 speed. Shimano 8 speed is a tad narrower, but not much of a tad. Any 7 speed or 8 speed chain should work with an Ultra 6 speed though the tooth design of the old sprockets was not as shift-friendly as the newer.

In my experience, a 7/8 speed chain will work fine on the front sprockets. I have a bike with 9 speed Campagnolo (and a 9 speed chain, of course) that has a NR/SR chainset that was originally used with 5/6 speed spacing and it works fine with the narrower 9 speed chain. Several bikes around here that originally had standard 6 speed (126 mm spacing) and now have 7 speed and use the 7/8 speed KMC chains and have no problem with the front sprockets.

pastorbobnlnh 

I've found that 8 or 9 speed SRAM or KMC chains work very nicely on ultra spaced freewheels. Just as a point of information, Regina and Atom also sold compact spaced 6 speed freewheels as well. However, the Suntour models seem to be significantly more prolific here in the US.

The Golden Boy 

I would take Bob's word as gospel, so to speak.

I've had good luck with SRAM 8 speed chains.

Salamandrine 

BITD you had to use a 'narrow' chain with the ultra freewheels. Either a Suntour ultra chain, or a sedisport chain. The latter was more common. IIRC they were cheaper and worked well. These days standard width 5/6 speed chains are long extinct, so really any modern 5/6/7/8 speed chain should be fine. I guess you could say that the modern SRAM 8 speed chains are the closest modern descendants of the old sedisports.

This difference between early narrow and standard chains is not often discussed, and it's worth pointing out for those that weren't there. These were both nominally 3/32" chains but the outer width was different. Sedisports were about 7.3mm wide at the rivets, 6.8 at the plates. I don't have an Oro or similar 'standard' chain to check, but I think those were more like 7.6 or something. If anyone has one to check, that would be cool.

Slightspeed

I like the KMC 7-8 speed chain on my Raleigh. It works great with a 6 speed Megarange and Sugino AT triple. I have gotten hung in "no mans land" between big and middle chain rings a few times. I suspect this due mostly to operator error. When I bought the KMC I bought another one for my Legnano that has the original chain from new, 54 years ago. I've measured it over the years, and it's always in spec. I still haven't installed the KMC on it. The Legnano chain looks like something off a motorcycle compared to the KMC, but still works with a 6 speed freewheel, originally a 5 speed. Today, on the Raleigh, I got surprused by a red light, while on the big front ring, 3 or 4 down in back. I pushed the front gear lever all the way to the small ring by mistake. It made a good gear for a restart, without having to finesse the middle ring shift.

John E

I have standardized on SRAM 8-speed chains for all of my bikes (standard 5, ultra-6, standard 6, 8-speed freehub) .

ramzilla

I like KMC 8.93 chains so much that I buy several when I find them at a good price. They work great on old 5 & 6 speed set ups.

Olympianrider

Thanks, all, for your help and advice! I knew this was the right place for a question like this.

Sounds like the consensus is clear -- the modern 7-speed chain-width is the right one to use in this application. Also, a chain in which the rivets are flush with the side-plate. (I can see how protruding rivets might be a problem when the gears are scrunched close-together.)

With this knowledge in hand, I went to eBay and within three minutes I found a chain with these characteristics: KMC X8.93 21 / 24-Speed 1/2" X 3/32" Road / MTB Bicycle Chain 116L fits 3x7 3x8.

Thanks to all who pointed out the KMC chain will suit!

The cost was $10.45. Problem solved? Heck if I know, but I'm sure I'm getting there. I wonder if there might be other features that offer performance improvements. But this certainly is the place to start.

I want to say how much I appreciate hearing real-world examples, in which people have confronted the same issues and solved them. I knew I couldn't be the only one with a question like this. That's one of the beauties of this forum.

Erik Smith
Olympia, WA

dddd

I'm surprised that no one has recommended Shimano chain.
Having measured the external width of all of the major brands of chain, both at the pins and at the sideplate bulges, I saw that among the 9s chains, Shimano's was the very best in this regard, thus giving the most positive ("early") shifting performance. This applied to shifts across the freewheel, and especially in front between chainrings.

Suntour Ultra-spaced freewheels and similar Accu-7 Alpha freewheels had narrower spacing between their largest cogs, making 9s chain a good choice, and especially good when Suntour's Accushift levers were used.
In my opinion, the performance weaknesses of Suntour's 7s Accushift would have been hardly noticeable if the best 9s chains had been available at that time.
Unfortunately for Suntour and Campy, they were not at the forefront of chain development and so had to rely on the assortment of chains produced by others, which gave variable (often poor) results.
A 9s Shimano chain can for example "magically" eliminate many problems of subtle cog-spacing discrepancy when using early narrow-spaced indexing systems with modern freewheels, and can sharply reduce the time needed to complete a shift up to a larger chainring.

Fahrenheit531 

+1 to dddd's statements above.
Shimano 9-spd works flawlessly in an Ultra-6. In my experience 6-7-8-spd, depending on brand, rub the next larger cog and/or make a lot of noise; performance is less than ideal.

83cannondale

I have an original 1983 Cannondale that came with the special chain - dunno what brand, model - Every other link is expanded in the side plates. I've been using the Sram 8xx series on that bike for many many miles and they seem fine. Using the Connex links as well. The sram might be a little narrow for the sugino apex chainrings and I'm seeing a little wear on the sides of the rings, but, seem to be fully functioning. I just cheeked in with this thread to see if other info has been added to that. I started using the sram based on comments here...

repechage

most 8 speed chains work well.
Shimano, the company that is recalling 750K crank sets world wide.

Steel Charlie

Make sure that you do NOT Try to re-rivet the KMC ! ! Only use the supplied master link.

gkamieneski

Back in the day I believe Suntour sourced DID chains for their drivetrains. Don’t know if they are even still in business.

Bad Lag

I have an Ultra-6 chain for use with my Ultra-6 freewheels.

The real issue must be, what can be found in the marketplace that will work well?

I'm also concerned about having a chain for my standard spacing 5 speed freewheels. I'm currently using a Regina Oro but they do not last forever.

Piff 

I'm currently using a KMC X9 SL 9-speed chain with a 7 speed suntour winner pro freewheel. Works great. Though I think I'll try a 9 speed shimano chain after this one wears out, dddd knows more about suntour accushift than just about anyone here.

esasjl

I'm using the same on 6 and 7 speed ultra spaced winner pros.

Aardwolf

Using KMC X8-93 here on Sunrace 7 speed 13-28 freewheel and SunTour New Winner Ultra 6 13-28.
Both working fine, but set the H and L screw properly.

Fried_Chicken

I am curious whether for your 5 speed freewheel you have tried the Izumi ES410C (or ES410CNP for silver color). They seem to be manufactured like the older style chains (with bushings, and 7.8mm pin width). I'm looking at chains for a 5 speed Regina freewheel and was wondering how this would work.