urbanknight

Now I've done it. I have been riding the heck out of my rescued Rockhopper and the people I have started to ride with like to ride some really tough trails. More over, I really like it. The more challenging, the better. As a matter of fact, I have this strange desire to try some neglected singletracks on spotted while mapping some rides, and I want to ride up to Mt Wilson and back down it (9 miles up non-stop with 5000' of gain). I'm not worried about breaking my hardtail, but I feel like I'd get more out of my rides on a full suspension.

Now my budget is very limited, with a little over $100 plus whatever I could sell my hardtail for. Is it worth it to trade up for something like an older Warp, FSR, etc., or should I just stick with my hardtail? I still consider my riding to be cross country, but it doesn't seem to have limits as to what type of trails I will try to go down... or up.

Rutnick

Not much but I went to a 5" FS trail bike because my back and body just couldn't keep doing 30+ mile MTB rides and races on a HT. I had a Salsa Ala Carte HT and while it was great certain injuries just wouldn't take the beating after a while. I still have the 5" FS bike but I also got a steel 29er with a 80mm fork and found I can ride it all day too on certain trails. She's faster in certain circumstances still.

I find a FS bike is still faster over choppy rocky and rooty stuff if it is a 26" HT vs a 26" FS bike especially if you let your rear shock go full active over it. The 29er steel HT goes over that stuff better than my 26" HT.

Honestly, your budget doesn't sound like it would get you much. I don't know what you could get for your HT and getting a used FS bike is a crap shoot unless you post some specs of the other bikes and you know their history. Honestly, the fork and rear shock are the two biggest things I look for in a FS bike. Don't ever skimp on those.

What pressures are you running in your HT right now? I know you are pretty light so just asking.

merlin55

For '85 to '90 I rode no suspension ATBs and had a blast, then front suspension for the next 6 years, then finally full suspension (FS). Sure FS is more comfortable on rough descents and climbs, but your hardtail isn't keeping you from riding anything except perhaps massive drop-offs that us roadies shouldn't be doing in any case.


my kid is moving to Pasadena from San Diego in a few months, so I'll need to PM you to get some suggested road and mountain bike rides...

dminor 

For the type of riding you are talking about, the only limits of your hardtail are in how fast you're going to cover that terrain and how much fun you'll have doing it. As Rutnick says, your budget is the limiting factor here, as far as getting a FS that is worth switching for.

Oh, and stay away from Warps - - they were notoriously inefficient and heavy. An older FSR, though, is always a safe bet. IMO they are still the defacto standard for FS done right no matter their age.

electrik

Go faster with more abandon. A hard tail would buck you like a bull if you don't slow down. Having said that, you can do a lot of things with a hard-tail. Also on a hard tail you have to be more careful about your lines since there is less fudge factor.

I should warn you that a FS will suck more money out of your wallet, replacing bearings and there is a new shock to maintain.

Still, it's probably worth it... but you'll have to go used with your budget. Remember also that you may have to replace the bushing/bearings in the frame of an older bike which can vary from $50 to $200 depending on the shop and type of frame.

ed 

Why is it that people think DuBoingers are for big drops? I can see a "big drop" specific bike with really stiff suspension and slow damping if that's all you're gonna do...(Bender)...but it would be far to stiff to enjoy the benefits of suspension for "trail riding". If your bike is set up with the appropriate amount of sag for aggressive riding...it will still bottom out on a "big drop". Your damping will help a great deal, but I'd be more apt to "need" suspension on an XC or DH bike than I would doing Freeride or Urban styles of riding. XC...because of the 3-6 hrs of choppy ground that you cover...I have more energy if I can relax and stay in the saddle over the smaller stuff. DH specifically for control.


OP...you will have more fun on a dually. You don't have enough money for a decent one though...so don't bother.

mystolenbikes

I don't know what your budget is but something like this is all you need. My buddy has one of these and he loves it, beats the crap out of it and that X fusion rear shock takes all the abuse he can dish out.

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/...enuItemId=9248

ed 

His budget is the profit from selling his bike + $100.

urbanknight

Around 35 psi. They're 2.0 tires (can't go wider than about 2.1 on the back of the Rockhopper) on somewhat narrow rims, but I could probably go a little lower after I lose the 20 lb I gained over the Winter.


Exactly what I want to do.


Precisely. I bucked myself off my bike (and into some nice, soft, brush) while taking the high side of a deep rut because I didn't want to slow down. Two guys on my tail were also motivating factors. I can climb technical stuff better than most of my companions, but when the trail turns downhill, I sometimes think I should wait at the crest for them to go by first.


Yep, which will be about $400. I'm seeing things like FSR's, Warps (which I will now avoid, thanks Dminor), various Konas, DBRs, ec. Mostly 5 to 10 year old stuff.

I wish I hadn't sold my Alpinestars. I used it for downhill and then swapped my XC components to it when I trashed my hardtail frame in 1998. It was a little heavy, but rode just fine. I'm ashamed to say I sold it for $400 in order to buy a road frame. Now I'm half tempted to sell my roadie to get a really decent mtb, but I know I'll regret that too.

mystolenbikes

Oooppps I thought your budget was bit more then that.

Covalent Jello

damn i can't even imagine life with a hardtail, how do you do that
got a $500 used rockhopper full suspension a few years back
it lasted 2 seasons before the suspension front/back failed & weren't able to hold air
that was a sad experience, the idea of buying a used full suspension never sat well since, 'least for that kind of money.
seems hard to tell how close to death suspension is when buying used bikes like that
anyways you should try to join the world of full suspension somehow if possible. it's glorious.
i love my full suspension bc you can lock out both the front and back to turn it into a hardtail, couldnt be happier with that feature

urbanknight

Yeah, I've already tasted the Koolaid before when I turned my "downhill bike" into an XC. My only complaint was that I could only carry one water bottle, but I'm realizing wearing a hydration pack is worth having full suspension.

urbanknight

How about a K2 Razorback Team? Someone's selling the frame locally and I could swap all the components (except I might need a different front derailleur and headset).

Also, I was looking at some frames/bikes that seem to be more freeride/downhill oriented (more laid back seat tube). With a shorter travel shock, would that make it more XC capable, or would it just throw the geometry way off and handle like crap in all conditions.

mystolenbikes

Urbanknight check pm.

never

Dual suspension does make a big difference for most people on big drops, jumps, etc. The main thing is that you won't have to be as perfect as you would on a hardtail. The suspension can help correct mistakes. And because of that fact, you can go even bigger. Case a big gap on a hardtail at speed and you're breaking your bike or yourself or both. Land heavy off of a drop or in a g-out...same result. Do the same things with lots of nice rear travel and you'll have a better chance of riding it out.

I overshot a drop in Whistler and turned it into a big stepdown...well that is if I had been able to make it to the berm that was 30-40 feet away. Unfortunately I didn't quite make it and full cased the lip leading into the berm. My bike absorbed the bulk of the impact but I still got tossed pretty hard and even snapped one of the ti rails on the saddle when I G'd out. If I was on a hardtail, instead of riding for the rest of the day, I would have been on my way to the hospital.

dminor 

+1 I have proven numerous times how much forgiveness is on hand with 8+ inches.

urbanknight

Alright, I'm going to pick up that Razorback frame and swap the parts over. I know it won't be top of the line and it doesn't have lock-out features, but it should be an improvement from a hardtail.

Covalent Jello

yous crazy!

cleverendeavor

Lightweight XC frame, but has an atypical pull shock (probably Noleen.) If you can get a Fox Float RL pull shock, you'll be all set!

EDIT: if it is a Noleen, there's probably a 50% chance it will need to be rebuilt - those things are notorious for leaking.

dminor 

Pull shock - - ugh. Fortunately for you, urbanknight, K2 is good about documentation for older models. The Noleen shock is serviceable if you're handy:

https://eccyclesupply.com/k2bikes/PDF...hockManual.pdf

As are the frame pivots:

https://eccyclesupply.com/k2bikes/PDF...razorback2.pdf

I have no idea if you can still get any parts from them though.

Better yet, Noleen itself has been reincarnated as Noleen J6 (by Clark Jones, Noleen Racing's founder) and they offer servicing on all the old mtn bike product:

https://j6shocks.com/Mountain_Bike_Services.html

urbanknight

Thanks for the info! The guy promises that it holds air, and the linkage seems to work. It is a Noleen, so at least I know how to get it serviced thanks to you guys. It looks like all my parts will swap over except the seatpost, so now all I need is some free time to do the swap.


Yeah, I know. I'm sure most of you remember Earthquake Jake Watson? I bought that Alpinestars frame from his little half brother who also raced downhill.

JonnyV

I feel every mountain biker should have atleast 2 bikes; one HT and one full squishy. They each have their place.
That being said, I just agreed to sell my full suspension to a friend and it's replacement will be a full carbon hardtail that I'm going to make as light as humanly possible. Most of the trails I ride are hardpack single track. Problem is that if I leave that trail system I'm stuck with typical northeast trails littered with rocks the size of a babies head so another full suspension probably isn't too far off.
I don't know where I was going with this, just ride the best bike you can afford.

urbanknight

It looks like it did come with a rear shock lock-out. Anybody know where I can get the lock-out system for it? Or will any one work?

mystolenbikes

Huh?

I don't get the question but lock out is built in to the shock, it's not a sperate system.(unless there are different types out there) If your shock has a little lever on it for the lock out you got lock out. If it doesn't...well...it doesn't.

Covalent Jello

I like to use 2x4's wedged into my frame for lockout, badass
'Always laugh going by those people flipping their dinky little shock switches, pshhhhhhh