Fastfingaz

To actually sell higher end bicycles,,,, what would happen to your LBS?,,,,,,,With competent builders,,,,,, just for General Discussion,,,,,,,

MrWasabi

I think at that point, *if they did*, the high end bike companies would need to make a stance, maybe set pricing or otherwise throw the LBS's that were supporting them under the bus. I get that the LBS provides a lot of other stuff/services but unprotected pricing through Walmart would kill them.

Fastfingaz

Higher end but not the big 4,, my lbs doesn't inventory big four,, but he says if you know what you want he'll order it for you and set it up ,,,,

KBentley57

Walmart will not decide to sell the high-end of anything, ever. It's not their target demographic.

12strings

This is correct. 3 years ago I was in the market for a bike to commute in and went to Walmart...after some hand-wringing and comparisons I "splurged" on a $200 hybrid. Most people I talked to about that purchase thought I had spent a reasonable, if HIGH, amount of money for a bicycle. Some thought it was very expensive...

Most people going into Walmart have no intention of even concept of buying a $1,000 bicycle.

(A year and a half later I bought a $800 road bike) :-)

no1mad 

Take it one step further- what if WM and BD teamed up? BD ships to your local WM store and then trained techs could assemble/adjust for a nominal fee?

Dave Cutter

That I believe would be unlawful.

But we don't have to guess about such things. Similar things have happened in the past. The lawn mower industry was relatively new... and really took off with all the new home building after WW2. At that time every lawn mower was sold at lawn mower shops.

Then.... THE big box store of it's day (even had a HUGE on-line.... er... mail-order division) jumped in selling lawn mowers. And Sears (Sears and Roebuck back in the day) still sells a lot of mowers... many sold under their own brand name signage.

Lots of places sell mowers today.... but many of the old lawn mower shops are still selling and repairing mowers and related accessories.

Maelochs

Where would the profit margin be? Wal-Mart would need to hire serious mechanics and sales staff to explain the higher-end bikes, and the cost of the skilled staff would raise the prices up the prices everyone else charges.

The only way Wal-Mart makes any money is low-cost, high volume,, and No skilled workers whatsoever (many Wal-Mart workers earn below the poverty line and get government support---which is to say, we subsidize Wal-mart's labor costs with our tax dollars ... which is a whole different story ... ) So Wal-Mart simpkly could not make money on high-end bikes and Still sell them at a discount. if prices were comparable with LBSs, why go to Wal-mart?

Want to be a Wal-Mart Star? Spend $160 for a flashy, shiny, chrome and prismatic plastic cheese-testicles mountain bikes ... the ones which weigh 38 lbs and have useless suspension both front And rear.

People who see you wheeling that to the checkout counters will think you are a Big Spender, buying what is clearly a Hot bike.

You really think serious bikes ranging in price fro $1000 to $3500 are going to move out of Wal-Mart? Maybe if they are stolen .....

Flip Flop Rider

I go to my LBS and my lawn mower store for service after the sale. Like loading my weed eater with string, or repairing a pinch flat while I wait, or making an adjustment to my chain saw.

True these are all things I could learn to do, but so far I have not and appreciate people that can do them. Dropped my bike off Saturday morning for new brake pads and brake adjustment, then picked it up in the afternoon. Can't imagine Wal-Mart being able to compete with that.

GlennR

And what if a rainbow unicorn came to deliver a winning lottery ticket to my house?

Never gonna happen.

_ForceD_

Cubs won the World Series, Donald Trump was elected president. It could happen.

Dan

W -- Go Cubs Go!

exmechanic89

I believe they would bring out a line of 'Great Value' bikes, to match their other house branded merchandise.

nycphotography

Nothing would happen to my LBS because walmart "high end" bicycles would only compete with sports authority and dicks.

nycphotography

"Walmart" and "trained techs" are mutually exclusive. To wit, walmart mechanics = oil changes and tire mounting. Maybe a battery. Certainly nothing that requires diagnostics of any kind.

jefnvk

Probably the same thing that happens everytime they decide to sell guns: it lasts for about a year, until they don't actually sell, teh department disappears, only until a year and a half later someone decides they could be a money maker again, they stock them for another season, only for them to disappear again.

Dave Cutter

So if you stop in a bar... and see old friends there and one buys you a beer.... you'll never need to actually pay for another beer ever again. Because... nothing ever changes.

Yes. Walmart has a history of how they have made profit. To assume that their business plan will never change would be a big mistake. The Walton family (they own Walmart) also owns Banks. Both Arvest Bank and Woodforest National bank (with nearly 800 branches). No. The Walton's didn't used to own banks... it wasn't in the Walmart business model. The models change, the plans change. Everything always changes.

I don't know the future of bicycles. No one knows the future.

I do try however to learn how things happen. Learn what the natural progressions are. Never in the boardroom of any large corporation will anyone ever make a presentation that suggests that they are big enough, and profitable enough. Growth, and expansion are the life blood or business.

If someone would have suggested in 1959 that Schwinn would leave Chicago and................. (you see my point)

Jeremy_S

I for one wouldn't dream of buying one for the simple fact I avoid walmart at all costs. As far as I'm concerned they're the evil empire that wreck so many mom and pops stores and made downtown in just about every town a ghost town. We have a small employee owned market close to my house where I pay more but I support local business and local people. The same for bike shops. I'll buy from performance bike as well but normally all of my shopping is done at any of the many epic bike shops in the DFW area. Walmart's model is buy low priced garbage and sell it for a low price to people who don't value customer service while under staffing their stores and hiring just enough people to say "I'm not sure" or nothing at all. If they were selling s-works bikes for 3500 bucks I would still avoid it. I freakin hate that place.

02Giant 

That would be yuge, really yuge!

Maelochs

That is a terrible analogy. it in no way relates to or illustrates your point, which otherwise makes some sense.

The next question would be ... Why would Wal-Mart radically alter its normal business plan to sell very low-volume items which demand highly trained sales and maintenance staff? Could they? Yes ... they could become the sole U.S. mass-market distributor for gaudily painted stuffed elephants, if they so chose---they have the cash.

Look at your example, though, with banks. Wal-Mart the Corporation bought some banks ... as a totally separate business from their retail stores. The proper analogy here would be Wal-mart opening a chain of small bike shops. (Which would actually make more sense.)

Why not? Very low profit margin, very unreliable returns. And the biggest reason, which has been mentioned here: Image.

Wal-mart has the image of being a one-stop ultra-cheap outlet for low-cost, low-quality goods for income-insufficient families. It aims squarely at the lower portion of the income range and hits it squarely, offering what most lower-middle-class and below people need to carry on daily life.

It has gained a slightly unsavory reputation (we all know it, but google "Wal-mart customers" if you like ... ) because it does serve some of the less civilized or socialized, because it is aimed at the just-above-poor, and sells goods which are just above poor in quality.

No merchants want to put quality name-brand merchandise into a Wal-mart ... most of the customer base wouldn't appreciate it (or would be smart enough to see that the name was half the value, and go buy nearly equivalent Wal-mart stuff) and the association would cheapen the brand (Diamondback and Schwinn have both lost some luster after deciding to market lower-quality bikes in Wal-mart ... . the prestige of Diamondback in particular has fallen tremendously in the past 25 or so years.)

At the same time, most Wal-mart customers Want the cheapest possible version of whatever item is being sold. The don't care for a hand-polished, triple-plated, rosewood-handled Wolfgang Puck spatula .... they want the 99-cent plastic spatula. They want the cheap fishing or camping gear, otherwise they'd go to Dick's or one of the specialty retailers.

Most Wal-mart customers have no use for a bicycle which costs as much as the cheapest actual bicycle costs ... the $300 bottom-of-the-line starter bikes with 7-speed freewheels and stem-mounted thumb-shifters are way too expensive for these folks. They wouldn't even understand a bike which cost $3000---they'd think it was a joke, bait for fools, or a mistake on the price tag.

So ... now Wal-mart has to sign a deal with one of the major manufacturers ... then hire sales staff who make as much as their low-level managers ... then hire mechanics which make just as much .... and Then they need to do a media blitz, to tell people that they are selling high-end bikes in their stores.

The can't count on sales from existing traffic ... and they can't use their existing commercials. They have to target a completely different, much more up-market clientele, and they need to do print, online, and television, and not during the shows which offer cheaper rates, because they have to target ... golf? Football? I don't know what dramas, but definitely Not the shows where Wal-mart normally buys commercial time.

Wal-mart would need to generate traffic from Zero .... and understand that there would be almost zero crossover between clienteles (no one buying a $3000 Trek is also looking for a cheap Chinese colander ... or even a pair of $5 Bell cycling gloves.)

Then Wal-Mart would also have to overcome its own image, as a place where people buy cheap stuff cheap. As a poster noted above, a lot of people simply don't ever go to Wal-mart---if they want to buy something they shop for that thing, not for the cheapest version of whatever .... I'd bet a lot of cyclists would wonder, "Am I getting the absolutely best Trek of Cannondale when I shop at Walmart--- or does the manufacturer have its 'Wal-mart special' line where it makes a slightly less high-quality bike?"

We have all heard of "Store Brands"; bigger name retailers sometimes produce a line of cheaper products (happens a lot with electronics and audio that I know of ... stereos, computers, whatever) which count as super-big-ticket items for Wal-mart shoppers, but are discounted compared to the top-line stuff the same manufacturer sells in other outlets (No cheating involved--the specs are on the boxes ... it is just the Wal-mart shopper will mostly look at the price and not even understand most of the tech specs.)

Yet another consideration is sales cost is floor space (and storage space.) Wal-mart has to maximize return on its floor space and at the same time has a sufficient range of sizes to meet the needs of its customers. This is easy with clothing or shoes ... but there is a reason many Wal-mart bikes are only Small, Medium, or Large.

Thing is, when someone is dropping a couple grand on a bike, he or she likely wants a particular color, not whatever hasn't sold, probably wants a choice of component levels, and Definitely wants a frame that fits. Obvious issue here is that those high-end bikes don't sell fast which means a lot of floor space and storage space is tied up for a pretty low profit margin (like most LBSs, Wal-mart makes steady bike money on cheap cruisers; the LBS might get a few big-ticket sales per month, but service and accessories and $300 cruisers are keeping the lights on day-to-day.)

So Wal-mart, adding up the pros and cons ... Why would they do it? These people are pretty good at retail, you have to admit, like them or not ... why would they get into one of the lowest-margin, most uncertain, lowest-volume specialty markets out there? What is the upside?

It's not like a huge number of people want to buy a $3000 bike but just can't find one in their local stores ... it's not like having high-end bikes at Wal-mart would open up a huge untapped market segment.

So ... what is the upside?

You mention banks .... yeah, but Wal-mart didn't change the names to "Wal-mart Bank" and close down all the outlets except inside Wal-mart stores, did they? They would cut their own throats if they did that.

If Wal-mart was ever going to get serious about bicycles, they would open a national chain of major bike stores, selling everything from Wal-mart crap bikes to the top-end bikes we all lust after (or already ride.) That Might make sense. No way I can see any good business reason to try to sell high-end bikes inside the existing big-box Wal-mart outlets.

02Giant 

Ain't that the truth.

I'll add, I believe that because of Walmart, it is the reason you see so many of the goods sold in this country being made overseas. Not only their direct competition but virtually any industry, hoping to duplicate the Walmart way to amass wealth.

I once seen a documentary where Walmart effectively put a US clothing manufacture out of business because Walmart could buy like items for $.05 less per piece. I understand the scale Walmart buys in but really, how many billions does one person need. In the case of the Walton family there are 7 people, worth somewhere near $133B combined.

JonathanGennick 

Walmart has too many stores. The bicycle market isn't large enough. So Walmart would have to somehow choose only select stores to also be bicycle shops.

Look at Performance Bike and REI. Those are two chains that have brought in lines of bicycles and that have mechanics in house. Walmart doing the same thing possibly would end up looking more or less like Perf Bike and REI.

calamarichris

+1. Can't answer for the rest of my countryman or species, but there are some things in this world more important than bargains. Bizarre to me that more people don't see it for what it is.

wheelsmcgee

Can't add much that hasn't already been said, but IMO if Walmart were to do this, the best way would be to leverage their current manufacturing relationships and simply change the value level from "bottom" to "slightly above". Looking at Walmarts bikes on occasion and seeing those ridiculously low priced bikes (and the quality that goes with it) I've often wondered how hard it would be for them to build something akin to a no frills early 90's rigid mtb, the sort of thing a trek 800 series was back in the day.

indyfabz

Many LBS make the lion's share of their profits from service, not sales.

EnjoyinTheRide

Honestly I dont know why any Walmart would want to sell expensive bikes....They do just fine with what they have...