Has demand dropped?
09-01-23, 07:20 PM
#101
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A mute point considering the C&V community participating here will either be 6 feet under at worst or using a walker at best 50 years from today. Much like the demand for penny farthing bikes today no one will really care how they ride.
09-01-23, 07:22 PM
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A mute point considering the C&V community participating here will either be 6 feet under at worst or using a walker at best 50 years from today. Much like the demand for penny farthing bikes today no one will really care how they ride.
09-01-23, 07:35 PM
#103
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Considering the first mass market ones came out in the late-'80s, we have only 15 more years until we answer that question. Thankfully many of those early ones are built pretty sturdily. How the bonds hold up will be another question to have answered. The ones that were kept inside away from large temperature and humidity fluctuations (impacts, too) will obviously fare the best. Anything made today, 50 years from now...don't know about that. The top spec stuff will be fragile like it is today, so best skip an older Madone 6.9 SSL and get a 5.2 (talking 2009 or so here). Same feel, just more beef.
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09-01-23, 07:48 PM
#104
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First off, a hearty "Thanks!" for starting this topic, as it's something I've been wondering about myself. I stumbled into C&V about six years ago, and it didn't take long to discover that parting out bikes was more profitable than rehabbing them locally. Was I always into it for the money? No, but I'm a stay-at-home parent and selling on Ebay let me contribute to the household income, and made my wife happy with not having strangers come to the house to test ride bikes, etc. Plus I got to sample a lot of neat bikes for myself.
Anyways, this year my sales are down a solid 30% compared to last year, it's like a switch got flipped and demand dissipated, it was pretty abrupt. The good stuff still sells - Campy, Dura-Ace, Superbe - but at lower prices than in the past. The decent, mid-level stuff (Ultegra/105/Rival) just sits or you give it away for cheap. Anything below that, forgetaboutit. BMX is still crazy, if you can find it (though Old School has shifted to Mid-School), and vintage lugged mountain does well too, though mostly to fuel the BMX guys. Road bikes are down, unless it's top shelf stuff. Touring bike frames will eventually sell, but not like they have in the past.
I live in Wisconsin - Trekland - and I've seen decent vintage steel Treks just sit at prices that would've been snatched up in years past. I don't buy those great deals for $50-150 because I can't make anything on them parting them out, whereas before I would buy whatever I could to stuff my shed full of bikes to part out over our long winter. Now, my shed is empty. I've become much more picky about buying anything vintage, and I've been trying to buy newer stuff, but it's more expensive and the margins aren't like it was on the old stuff before. It seems like there's a strong demand for disc/tubeless bikes, and as such there are a ton of great, even high end, rim brake offerings that languish on the market. I find ok deals on CL but more on Marketplace.
As has already been stated, I think the original target demographic is aging out the market and switching to eBikes, if they are riding at all. By and large, the younger folks don't want rim brake, down tube shifters, quill stems regardless of tire clearance - they'd rather spend a little more and get a brand new (gravel) specimen. As a consequence, they don't need parts to upgrade or repair their vintage ride because they don't have one. I think the segment of mature "active" buyers who still ride and care about C&V stuff may still upgrade and repair their bikes, but you lot are pretty cheap because you can afford to be patient. You'll make your crazy lowball Best Offers and I'll probably accept it!
Personally, I love the aesthetic of vintage road bikes but I don't ride them much anymore myself as I don't ride on the road all that often. When I do, I have a Salsa Vaya with a very upright position that I prefer. I've mostly switched to mountain biking and am having a blast riding through the woods on my Surly fat tire bike.
Be good, have fun, and ride what you like - whatever it is - but just keep riding as long as you are able.
Anyways, this year my sales are down a solid 30% compared to last year, it's like a switch got flipped and demand dissipated, it was pretty abrupt. The good stuff still sells - Campy, Dura-Ace, Superbe - but at lower prices than in the past. The decent, mid-level stuff (Ultegra/105/Rival) just sits or you give it away for cheap. Anything below that, forgetaboutit. BMX is still crazy, if you can find it (though Old School has shifted to Mid-School), and vintage lugged mountain does well too, though mostly to fuel the BMX guys. Road bikes are down, unless it's top shelf stuff. Touring bike frames will eventually sell, but not like they have in the past.
I live in Wisconsin - Trekland - and I've seen decent vintage steel Treks just sit at prices that would've been snatched up in years past. I don't buy those great deals for $50-150 because I can't make anything on them parting them out, whereas before I would buy whatever I could to stuff my shed full of bikes to part out over our long winter. Now, my shed is empty. I've become much more picky about buying anything vintage, and I've been trying to buy newer stuff, but it's more expensive and the margins aren't like it was on the old stuff before. It seems like there's a strong demand for disc/tubeless bikes, and as such there are a ton of great, even high end, rim brake offerings that languish on the market. I find ok deals on CL but more on Marketplace.
As has already been stated, I think the original target demographic is aging out the market and switching to eBikes, if they are riding at all. By and large, the younger folks don't want rim brake, down tube shifters, quill stems regardless of tire clearance - they'd rather spend a little more and get a brand new (gravel) specimen. As a consequence, they don't need parts to upgrade or repair their vintage ride because they don't have one. I think the segment of mature "active" buyers who still ride and care about C&V stuff may still upgrade and repair their bikes, but you lot are pretty cheap because you can afford to be patient. You'll make your crazy lowball Best Offers and I'll probably accept it!
Personally, I love the aesthetic of vintage road bikes but I don't ride them much anymore myself as I don't ride on the road all that often. When I do, I have a Salsa Vaya with a very upright position that I prefer. I've mostly switched to mountain biking and am having a blast riding through the woods on my Surly fat tire bike.
Be good, have fun, and ride what you like - whatever it is - but just keep riding as long as you are able.
I'm the OP and have been riding vintage Trek bikes for a decade now. My primary road bike was a lugged steel Trek frame with a modern Campagnolo groupset. Been riding that for 7 years after discovering how much better I liked it than a 2008 carbon fiber road bike that I started with.
I significantly upped my riding this summer. On a whim, I took a friend's modern Domane out for a ride. It felt nice. It felt different. It felt comfy with those 30mm tires yet still fast. It's been awhile since I've bought myself a toy of any kind, so in a whim I got myself a new road bike. Electronic shifting, disc brakes, wide 30mm tires, carbon fiber. I decided to go "all in" on modern. Why not.
it doesn't make me any faster. I know that because I go all out on the same route many times a week and my times are pretty consistent. The new bike is about the same speed as my vintage steel frame. Both feel good. But a new toy is a new toy. I'm not selling my steel framed retro roadie. And we will see if I go back to it at some point .
In any case I have too many bikes in my garage and trying to move a couple. They're not moving. At all. Even with students moving into campus. Oh well...I guess I'll keep them in my attic.
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09-02-23, 08:24 AM
#105
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A bit of a topic drift but somewhat related to demand....
I'm looking at a lugged Specialized Stumpjumper with a replaced fork but everything else is original and from the photos, it looks very clean. The other one is an all original RB-1 with Ritchey fork and crank. Both are my size.
Stumpjumper is $250
MB-1 may be $400
I may end up with both against better judgements because i have bikes that i want to unload and it is not going well. What do you guys think about those prices in light of the drop in demand?
Thanks
I'm looking at a lugged Specialized Stumpjumper with a replaced fork but everything else is original and from the photos, it looks very clean. The other one is an all original RB-1 with Ritchey fork and crank. Both are my size.
Stumpjumper is $250
MB-1 may be $400
I may end up with both against better judgements because i have bikes that i want to unload and it is not going well. What do you guys think about those prices in light of the drop in demand?
Thanks
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I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
09-02-23, 08:31 AM
#106
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Took forever to sell a Colnago Super and a Sannino. I'm going to try to sell one Masi but my expectations are pretty low. Life in modern times
09-02-23, 10:56 AM
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I came home with a new bike yesterday and my wife won't let me lower the price on two bikes that I have listed. Crazy.
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I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
09-02-23, 11:20 AM
#108
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A bit of a topic drift but somewhat related to demand....
I'm looking at a lugged Specialized Stumpjumper with a replaced fork but everything else is original and from the photos, it looks very clean. The other one is an all original RB-1 with Ritchey fork and crank. Both are my size.
Stumpjumper is $250
MB-1 may be $400
I may end up with both against better judgements because i have bikes that i want to unload and it is not going well. What do you guys think about those prices in light of the drop in demand?
Thanks
I'm looking at a lugged Specialized Stumpjumper with a replaced fork but everything else is original and from the photos, it looks very clean. The other one is an all original RB-1 with Ritchey fork and crank. Both are my size.
Stumpjumper is $250
MB-1 may be $400
I may end up with both against better judgements because i have bikes that i want to unload and it is not going well. What do you guys think about those prices in light of the drop in demand?
Thanks
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09-02-23, 12:00 PM
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Yes, demand has dropped but personally, doesn't affect me and could care less.
A funny thing crossed my mind just a few weeks ago. Fortunately have plenty of very nice classics yet sort of neglected riding a 1987 Trek 520 Cirrus. A prior buyer of another bike called me and asked about it. He remembered it well from over three years ago and then offered a VERY good sum plus cost of shipping.
A few days went by and decided to uncover it, didn't even need a dusting, though only air up the 700×32c tires. Rode it all day, detour for lunch, easy going 60 miler. Had forgotten how terrific and beautiful this bike really is. The paint and graphics are subtle classy, never going out of style. Choice quality all metal Suntour components, geared for anything. Brake setup and function with mechanical bliss. A stranger at the past office complimented it.
Considering I would have to fuss and partially dismantle and box it for shipping was secondary, called him back and said "forget about it".
A funny thing crossed my mind just a few weeks ago. Fortunately have plenty of very nice classics yet sort of neglected riding a 1987 Trek 520 Cirrus. A prior buyer of another bike called me and asked about it. He remembered it well from over three years ago and then offered a VERY good sum plus cost of shipping.
A few days went by and decided to uncover it, didn't even need a dusting, though only air up the 700×32c tires. Rode it all day, detour for lunch, easy going 60 miler. Had forgotten how terrific and beautiful this bike really is. The paint and graphics are subtle classy, never going out of style. Choice quality all metal Suntour components, geared for anything. Brake setup and function with mechanical bliss. A stranger at the past office complimented it.
Considering I would have to fuss and partially dismantle and box it for shipping was secondary, called him back and said "forget about it".
09-02-23, 03:50 PM
#111
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I'll be down to 2-3 bikes by spring.
Major pain selling bikes locally, but most are gone. I'll start posting parts for sale this fall.
Riding more this year than the last three years combined.
Truthfully, I need the space to build fly rods.
My friends seem to like them.
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09-02-23, 04:54 PM
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09-02-23, 08:11 PM
#113
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Semi retired here at this point.
I'll be down to 2-3 bikes by spring.
Major pain selling bikes locally, but most are gone. I'll start posting parts for sale this fall.
Riding more this year than the last three years combined.
Truthfully, I need the space to build fly rods.
My friends seem to like them.
I'll be down to 2-3 bikes by spring.
Major pain selling bikes locally, but most are gone. I'll start posting parts for sale this fall.
Riding more this year than the last three years combined.
Truthfully, I need the space to build fly rods.
My friends seem to like them.
Wow! Out of all the ultra high class bikes that you have had over the years, what did you end up keeping?
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09-02-23, 08:19 PM
#114
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Well if prices are dropping, I sure wish word would get out to the people posting bikes on facebook around here. There was a Hercules for $50 I probably would have bought, but a local flipper bought it, cleaned the dust off and resisted it for $150. It didn't move so he bumped it to $180.
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09-02-23, 09:46 PM
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E-bike is killing the CV market. Check out the photo below - not quite clear since I took the photo in a moving train but even the surfer dudes are riding e-bikes.
09-02-23, 10:49 PM
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Funny, I see so many people with ebikes but I don't actually know anyone directly who owns one. It certainly is amazing how they've taken the world by storm. I hope to see it translate into fewer automobiles used for transit.
09-03-23, 03:45 AM
#117
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I have to disagree with you. This is from a cyclist's point of view. I've had more near accidents with the E-holes in the past year than I've had with automobiles in the 50+ years I've been riding. It is totally ridiculous around here. Throw in the people riding the gas-powered "motorcycles" with no license, registration or insurance, it's getting dangerous.
Last edited by gearbasher; 09-03-23 at 04:08 AM.
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09-03-23, 04:52 AM
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Next thing will be to ban all unregistered and unlicenced "vehicles" from the public roads. Bicycles included....
Dystopian? Yes. Without precedent? No.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-24237390
Dystopian? Yes. Without precedent? No.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-24237390
09-03-23, 09:11 AM
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09-03-23, 09:26 AM
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Yes, I have owned my fair share.
I think I can survive the short term with my Black Mountain Cycles Monster Cross, my John Hollands and my Yeti SB165.
I wish I could get a little more tire on the Hollands, but that ELOS frame is all I really need.
Everything else is sold or will be this fall including framesets and parts.
If a Curt Goodrich shows up some day in my size I would be very hard pressed to say no.
BTW My new sweet tooth is building up old TREK and Specialized MTBs and gifting them to friends for city cruiser use.
I just finished a MB1 for my neighbor's son who is off to University. Hopefully it doesn't get ripped off the first week there.
09-03-23, 10:36 AM
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Heh thanks for the mention.
Yes, I have owned my fair share.
I think I can survive the short term with my Black Mountain Cycles Monster Cross, my John Hollands and my Yeti SB165.
I wish I could get a little more tire on the Hollands, but that ELOS frame is all I really need.
Everything else is sold or will be this fall including framesets and parts.
If a Curt Goodrich shows up some day in my size I would be very hard pressed to say no.
BTW My new sweet tooth is building up old TREK and Specialized MTBs and gifting them to friends for city cruiser use.
I just finished a MB1 for my neighbor's son who is off to University. Hopefully it doesn't get ripped off the first week there.
Yes, I have owned my fair share.
I think I can survive the short term with my Black Mountain Cycles Monster Cross, my John Hollands and my Yeti SB165.
I wish I could get a little more tire on the Hollands, but that ELOS frame is all I really need.
Everything else is sold or will be this fall including framesets and parts.
If a Curt Goodrich shows up some day in my size I would be very hard pressed to say no.
BTW My new sweet tooth is building up old TREK and Specialized MTBs and gifting them to friends for city cruiser use.
I just finished a MB1 for my neighbor's son who is off to University. Hopefully it doesn't get ripped off the first week there.
‘if they had invested money or sweat equity in them, perhaps it would have turned out differently.
one asked for a replacement. I advised that they buy one and I will help effect a repair with their help.
”that is too much work!” The young are not like you and me.
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09-03-23, 10:37 AM
#123
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Heh thanks for the mention.
Yes, I have owned my fair share.
I think I can survive the short term with my Black Mountain Cycles Monster Cross, my John Hollands and my Yeti SB165.
I wish I could get a little more tire on the Hollands, but that ELOS frame is all I really need.
Everything else is sold or will be this fall including framesets and parts.
If a Curt Goodrich shows up some day in my size I would be very hard pressed to say no.
BTW My new sweet tooth is building up old TREK and Specialized MTBs and gifting them to friends for city cruiser use.
I just finished a MB1 for my neighbor's son who is off to University. Hopefully it doesn't get ripped off the first week there.
Yes, I have owned my fair share.
I think I can survive the short term with my Black Mountain Cycles Monster Cross, my John Hollands and my Yeti SB165.
I wish I could get a little more tire on the Hollands, but that ELOS frame is all I really need.
Everything else is sold or will be this fall including framesets and parts.
If a Curt Goodrich shows up some day in my size I would be very hard pressed to say no.
BTW My new sweet tooth is building up old TREK and Specialized MTBs and gifting them to friends for city cruiser use.
I just finished a MB1 for my neighbor's son who is off to University. Hopefully it doesn't get ripped off the first week there.
Very nice gesture and quite a lovely thing you have going on to build up those old MTBs. Honestly, the 90s rigid bikes, as a bike class, were probably the most reliable bikes ever made. A simply 4130 frame and fork, trigger or grip shifts, and bam. Done. Love it. And it reminds me of Maslow, when he revisited his hierarchy of needs, and put in a view of other's needs as the highest form of living. You are living out the bike version of that, and so much kudos to you!
That's cool that you mention the Hollands. Late last year, a Hollands (of Maryland) showed up at one of the local co-ops. It was $450-ish, which given the parts buildout on it (upright city cruiser mish mash) was a little much for me at the time, but! When I looked them up, I found the exact bike (as in, that very same one) here on the forums, a pearl blue 57-58cm bike, built out of Reynolds 708. I went a few more times, and one of the times they actually listed it higher (they have a habit of pricing their 'gone through' bikes very high), but eventually someone nabbed it. I wonder how it would have ridden. Probably great. It was in a bit worse shape than the pictures of it showed when posted on this forum years ago. Somewhere I have pictures of it - I posted a few of them to the 'Are you looking for one of these?' thread.
Thanks for sharing, I appreciate it!
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09-03-23, 11:00 AM
#124
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I have looked around me in my town but most of people ride traditional bikes. A lot of road bikes even though some with sram etap or di2 but for the rest mountain bikes or city bikes. An Ebike is a bad bike, it is not very manoeuvrable,it is heavy and the brakes are not well optimized for optimal braking plus it is expensive.
09-03-23, 12:08 PM
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I have to disagree with you. This is from a cyclist's point of view. I've had more near accidents with the E-holes in the past year than I've had with automobiles in the 50+ years I've been riding. It is totally ridiculous around here. Throw in the people riding the gas-powered "motorcycles" with no license, registration or insurance, it's getting dangerous.
Next thing will be to ban all unregistered and unlicenced "vehicles" from the public roads. Bicycles included....
Dystopian? Yes. Without precedent? No.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-24237390
Dystopian? Yes. Without precedent? No.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-24237390
I have looked around me in my town but most of people ride traditional bikes. A lot of road bikes even though some with sram etap or di2 but for the rest mountain bikes or city bikes. An Ebike is a bad bike, it is not very manoeuvrable,it is heavy and the brakes are not well optimized for optimal braking plus it is expensive.
Read a Readers Digest article many years ago.
The average person spends 40% of their life's earnings on personal transportation if they choose to drive a car, I would suspect it may be more now.
More than housing, healthcare or education, by far in many cases.
And no, I'm certainly not advocating efbikes per se but the draw for noncycling folks can be huge for the savings, especially if you lose your license or insurance.
Last edited by merziac; 09-03-23 at 12:14 PM.
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