mark d

panasonic dx 5000 shimano 600 components.

has a shimano 600 freewheel 13-22. freewheel is sketchy and i need higher gearing for touring. just bought a 13-32t shimano 600 on ebay. when i was rebuilding the bike i removed the minimum amount of chain links to make it work.

my question is....should i expect to need to add links with the new freewheel ?


don't see how i can add as i had to remove links to keep the derailleur cage from touching the freewheel before and both freewheels have a 13t as the high gear

i am on my ship now so i can not get into this at the moment but was wondering if i will have a problem when i get home

did use search

as always thanks

Bill Kapaun

If this is your RDER-
VeloBase.com - Component: Shimano RD-6400, 600 Ultegra
Your max cog size is only 28T. You could "maybe" fudge a 30T, but no guarantee.
With a 26T take up capacity, your rings could only be 7T different from each other.
You could install a "mountain" RDER, but the only thing that would match up well (these days) with 6 speed would be the cheap Tourney RDER. Not much "bling", but it would work,
As per chain, just buy a new one. It'll make the new FW last long then starting its life with a worn chain.
As far as length increas- Figure 1 link SET per 4T increase.

Maybe something like a 14-28T FW would make more sense? If touring, you're not racing.

mark d

damn. shoulda asked before i purchased. i agree on the high end gears.don't need 13t. could change out the rings, damn, another tool purchase and parts hunt.

dedhed

Any 7-8-9 speed Shimano mountain RD would be fine. Deore/Altus/Alivio. Probably not finding a new one, but still better than Tourney.

squirtdad

really important that you have enough chain to run big/big......once you get your derailler figured out other wise you can get some very bad results if you accidentally shift into that combo

I like the small/small chain sizing method ymmv

vane171

... big/big or small/small - even if I never raced and probably can't count myself as very serious amateur cyclist, I have never ever fully cross chained either way and I don't think I ever even came near it. And its not that I even explicitly know that it shouldn't be done, even if I can foggily recall here and there in my life hearing about it - like actually last occasion was just here on forum, I think thread about California Yosemite weekend ride, where a photo of a bike was shown 100% cross chained (big/big), and it hurt sensibilities more because it was high end bike to boot. Some people have bigger valet than common sense.

I adjust chain length mid/big and mid/small as a compromise (rear mid or just around mid sprocket in both cases).

squirtdad

People who do not have big big capability and shifted to that combo find that if going fast it pretty much guarantees a crash. it is a safety factor and IMHO it is disservice to people to suggest other than that is ok.

I have done it my self, when I made a chain too short, I knew, I was aware of it and was being careful......i had a kid pull in front of me on a uphill section of MUP, and shiffed with out thinking.....fortunately I was going slow, realized what I did and just toppled slowly sidewise with no injury..... at speed it would have been a different story

ShannonM

You will need a new chain. And probably a different rear derailleur. The weirdly-colored 9 speed Deore LX is a good choice here... tough as nails, cheap, easy to find, shifts great, indexes without fiddling with 6-speed 600 levers. 'Twas the go-to replacement rear derailleur for 6 and 7-speed touring bikes and MTBs back in the mid-2000s. (Although, if they wanted the XTR, we'd take their money.)

--Shannon

mark d

i have a newish chain (april). can't remember the make. had to remove a bunch of links. saved them. as to comments on big to big and small to small, i have never done it but it bugs me if things ain't right. i would like to keep my derailleur as the bike is correct to original equipment although not every component was on the bike when purchased. (some comp missing) silly i know but....

so what i am thinking is combine the chain rings (correct term ?) from the 2 freewheels to get the best spread possible. as bill kaupman said i do not need the 13t . so i'm gonna have to get another tool, damn. i have never changed rings before. i suspect they will be frozen like a siberian wooly mammoth. comments ?

question: are the rings freely interchangeable ? as in could what is presently the 3rd gear become the highest gear etc ?

thanks for all the comments. much appreciated

ShannonM

Mixing cogs on two freewheels often works, but there's specific features that have to match between the two. You'll need two chain whips. There is no other tool that works so far as I'm aware. You'll want to do a bunch of reading before you start. It's not rocket science, but it's fiddly and there's lots of small details that you can trip over.

If the primary goal is the 32t cog, your derailleur will either work or it won't, no matter what smaller cogs you've got, so make sure it'll work with that before you start taking freewheels apart. You usually mix freewheels to get better spacing in the middle, often sacrificing a bit of top-end speed for better cruising.

--Shannon

mark d

thanks shannon, ....i do not have a specific goal of 32t, but the 22t is too small. would like to improve on that. recently did the c&o canal and i was in the 22t gear the whole time. not a problem but nothing in reserve when i wanted to climb the hills into a town

2 chain whips ? ...would it be possible to hold the freewheel with a freewheel removal tool and use one whip ? i have the removal tool on the way

both freewheels are shimano 600

ShannonM

If memory serves, you need two chainwhips because the small cog is also the lockring, and because they tend to be so tight that the removal splines in the freewheel body can't take the strain. (I may well wrong about this.)

Your 600 rear derailleur will almost certainly shift a 28 tooth cog. Shimano makes a 14-28 6 speed freewheel that would be cheaper brand new than the tools you'd need for the kit-bash.

That said, if the two 600s you've got have the cogs you need to get the gearing range and spacing you want, it'd be a fun project, and you'd still have a 600 freewheel on the bike. NOS is also an option, 14-26 and 14-28 were both really common. Shimano and Suntour made a ton of 'em, and they're all top-quality stuff. I like the Suntours, but I'm a Suntour fan. I wouldn't kick a Shimano 600 freewheel off my bike, that's for sure. I'm running a 14-16-18-20-23-26 on my Fuji, and it's the business, especially the 16-18-20 in the middle. Great cruising gears. The new Shimano has 14-16-18-21-24-28. It'd be hard for me to give up the 20T cog, as I use it all the time, but your legs may well feel differently. See what cogs you've got, and use this graphical gear calculator to get an idea of what might work. Bigger percentage jumps are more acceptable at the extremes, more annoying in the middle, evener is better.

I'm interested to see what you come up with! (This kind of thing is catnip for bike nerds.)

--Shannon

mark d

thks for the reply/info. theoretically i will get off my ship thursday night and will be reunited with my bike friday but there are 2 hurricanes bearing down on us now so i may be delayed. located in louisiana at the moment. will keep you informed and thks again for the help

JohnDThompson 

No, because the freewheel remover tool holds the inner body, while the sprockets are attached to the outer body. The second chain whip (or a freewheel vise) prevents the outer body from rotating while you're removing the sprocket.

N.B. you could fabricate a functional freewheel vise by using nails in a board to fit between the teeth of the largest sprocket, allowing you to use a single chain whip to remove the small sprocket.

Here's the SunTour freewheel vise in action:

mark d

johndthompson, thks for the photo and advice. the nail idea is great. will give it a try. i have a vice at home but i can not go home due to the covid. been staying at my mom's in the usa and she ain't got no tools. been having to buy everything. adds up quick.

mark d

well this is strange. just got back to my mom's house and changed out the old 14-21 freewheel (i said earlier it was 22t i was wrong) new freewheel is 13-32t. i hung the bike from the rafters in the basement and went through the gears and she shifted fine through all gears including 32t and small to small and big to big. not what i expected but hey i'll take it.

thks to all for their help

mark d

took her through her paces on a good test ride and all was fine. again thks to all for their help

squirtdad

nice.... and thanks for followup story