Need tire suggestions gravel bike that I値l be riding on pavement too.
09-25-19, 04:59 PM
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Need tire suggestions gravel bike that I値l be riding on pavement too.
Hi Folks,
Hey, I’m new to the forum. Couple quick questions.
Just purchased a Trek Checkpoint (ALR4) which came with a set of Schwalbe G-One gravel tires (max psi 50lbs).
The bike seems great and my ride through the woods was most excellent. The speed on the Schwalbes through rip-rap, gravel and dirt seemed fast and efficient. Another day, I tried a road ride with the Schwalbes on a group ride and it felt that these tires felt a good deal slower on pavement than my cyclocross tires (cyclo tires inflated to 80lbs).
I would say I ride about 50/50 pavement/dirt. On my 18 year old Bianchi Axis (Cyclocross bike with and aluminum fork), I’ve managed to ride trails with 32c tires inflated to about 75lbs. Bottom line is my old bike felt faster on the pavement with the Cyclo tires than did the Schwalbes. I realize with the higher pressure comes the penalty of a rougher ride in the dirt but I’ll take the trade off if I can’t a little better on the pavement. (The carbon fork on the new bike should offset some of that). Can anyone suggest some tires that that are good on gravel but might have a little more zip when I join in on a (faster) group ride and on pavement? Maybe a cyclocross or gravel tire that I can run at a higher PSI but performs well on dirt as well.
In advance, thanks so much.
Greg
Hey, I’m new to the forum. Couple quick questions.
Just purchased a Trek Checkpoint (ALR4) which came with a set of Schwalbe G-One gravel tires (max psi 50lbs).
The bike seems great and my ride through the woods was most excellent. The speed on the Schwalbes through rip-rap, gravel and dirt seemed fast and efficient. Another day, I tried a road ride with the Schwalbes on a group ride and it felt that these tires felt a good deal slower on pavement than my cyclocross tires (cyclo tires inflated to 80lbs).
I would say I ride about 50/50 pavement/dirt. On my 18 year old Bianchi Axis (Cyclocross bike with and aluminum fork), I’ve managed to ride trails with 32c tires inflated to about 75lbs. Bottom line is my old bike felt faster on the pavement with the Cyclo tires than did the Schwalbes. I realize with the higher pressure comes the penalty of a rougher ride in the dirt but I’ll take the trade off if I can’t a little better on the pavement. (The carbon fork on the new bike should offset some of that). Can anyone suggest some tires that that are good on gravel but might have a little more zip when I join in on a (faster) group ride and on pavement? Maybe a cyclocross or gravel tire that I can run at a higher PSI but performs well on dirt as well.
In advance, thanks so much.
Greg
Last edited by GeeTheCee; 09-25-19 at 07:29 PM.
09-25-19, 07:42 PM
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You're searching for the same elusive tire we all are. It doesn't exist yet. If pavement is the priority then I'd say something like the 32mm Terreno Zero or maybe even a 32mm Gatorskin. I've had good luck with the Gatorskins on good dirt roads.
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09-25-19, 08:00 PM
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go ahead and drop some gp5000 on it and you'll realize that there is more to being efficient that roll resistance. *cough cough* it's a trek. Good luck!
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09-26-19, 04:12 AM
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Try Gravel King slicks set up tubeless.. I ride them on gravel and also long paved rides. I just lower the air pressure a bit for gravel.
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09-26-19, 08:26 AM
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Great! Thanks! Researching all your suggestions. BTW, is there a way to tag a reply with "thanks"? I can't find the button!
Again, thanks so much.
Greg
Again, thanks so much.
Greg
09-26-19, 09:16 AM
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The future is now old man.
WTB Byline 700cx44 or 40 or 34. If you want to weight towards gravel.
Rene Herse Snoqualmie Pass 700cx44 or Barlow Pass 700cx38 or Bon Jon Pass 700cx35. If you want to weight towards the road.
The best thing you can do for feeling fast on pavement with a good gravel tire is do your own rolldown testing. My preferred gravel tire (WTB Resolute) is maybe 3-5% slower than racing slicks. My slick gravel tires (WTB Byway, Compass Baby Shoe Pass, GravelKing Slick 700cx38) are 0% slower than narrow racing slicks. They "feel" slower and have some definite aero losses but even while racing the actual difference is not noticeable even at the most extreme end, for me. I've spent time racing in almost two dozen training crits to come to these conclusions. Get some big tires, go on those fast group rides and see how it goes.
WTB Byline 700cx44 or 40 or 34. If you want to weight towards gravel.
Rene Herse Snoqualmie Pass 700cx44 or Barlow Pass 700cx38 or Bon Jon Pass 700cx35. If you want to weight towards the road.
The best thing you can do for feeling fast on pavement with a good gravel tire is do your own rolldown testing. My preferred gravel tire (WTB Resolute) is maybe 3-5% slower than racing slicks. My slick gravel tires (WTB Byway, Compass Baby Shoe Pass, GravelKing Slick 700cx38) are 0% slower than narrow racing slicks. They "feel" slower and have some definite aero losses but even while racing the actual difference is not noticeable even at the most extreme end, for me. I've spent time racing in almost two dozen training crits to come to these conclusions. Get some big tires, go on those fast group rides and see how it goes.
I was growing to hate spending $80USD(+) on roadie tires....and spending 1/2 as much for tires for gravel was welcome...
09-26-19, 10:03 AM
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I do some fast road rides with them (~27mph) when everyone else is on 23-25mm tires. They are not that far off. Realistically they are in the range of 18 watts per tire (pretty similar to the Compass - Rene Herse tire mentioned above). Someone recommended Gatorskin 32, but that tire is going to be no faster (I know, I've tried). If you want to put a race oriented tire on your bike like the Conti GP5000, that will make a difference - and can cut your rolling resistance in half. But if you want a gravel tire for the road, that G-One is going to be hard to beat.
(yes there is a "LIKE" button at the bottom right of each post - but its possible you don't have enough posts to have it show up as an option for you).
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09-26-19, 10:07 AM
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My new bike has those Schwalbe G-Ones too (40mm) and I thought they looked pretty wide and knobby for pavement but they've been pretty fast for the 200 miles I have on them. I was using Donnely X'Plor USHs (35mm) on my old bike.
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09-26-19, 10:42 AM
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Those Schwalbe's are some of the best tires available for what you are looking for. Very low rolling resistance. They don't "feel" fast compared to your higher pressure CX tires because they are ultra smooth. In the end, the smooth feels slower but is in reality faster.
I do some fast road rides with them (~27mph) when everyone else is on 23-25mm tires. They are not that far off. Realistically they are in the range of 18 watts per tire (pretty similar to the Compass - Rene Herse tire mentioned above). Someone recommended Gatorskin 32, but that tire is going to be no faster (I know, I've tried). If you want to put a race oriented tire on your bike like the Conti GP5000, that will make a difference - and can cut your rolling resistance in half. But if you want a gravel tire for the road, that G-One is going to be hard to beat.
(yes there is a "LIKE" button at the bottom right of each post - but its possible you don't have enough posts to have it show up as an option for you).
I do some fast road rides with them (~27mph) when everyone else is on 23-25mm tires. They are not that far off. Realistically they are in the range of 18 watts per tire (pretty similar to the Compass - Rene Herse tire mentioned above). Someone recommended Gatorskin 32, but that tire is going to be no faster (I know, I've tried). If you want to put a race oriented tire on your bike like the Conti GP5000, that will make a difference - and can cut your rolling resistance in half. But if you want a gravel tire for the road, that G-One is going to be hard to beat.
(yes there is a "LIKE" button at the bottom right of each post - but its possible you don't have enough posts to have it show up as an option for you).
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09-26-19, 10:48 AM
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The Schwalbe's were awesome and faster in the woods and on the trail, but I felt I was really dogging it on the pavement. I understand that lower PSI has less rolling resistance on gravel and trails but I'm pretty confident that on pavement, my old Kenda Kwicks on my cyclo bike running at 75 psi had less rolling resistance than did the Schwalbe's running at 50 psi. You thoughts on that?
Finally, Im looking at the Panaracer Gravel King SK's as maybe a happy medium (?). They pump up to 70 psi but people seem to like them. (the price is right too). I know the Schwalbes are faster in the woods where I tend to ride alone but I need all the help I can get when I'm with the group, and that's typically on the road!
Thanks again
Greg
09-26-19, 11:15 AM
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Those Schwalbe's are some of the best tires available for what you are looking for. Very low rolling resistance. They don't "feel" fast compared to your higher pressure CX tires because they are ultra smooth. In the end, the smooth feels slower but is in reality faster.
I do some fast road rides with them (~27mph) when everyone else is on 23-25mm tires. They are not that far off. Realistically they are in the range of 18 watts per tire (pretty similar to the Compass - Rene Herse tire mentioned above). Someone recommended Gatorskin 32, but that tire is going to be no faster (I know, I've tried). If you want to put a race oriented tire on your bike like the Conti GP5000, that will make a difference - and can cut your rolling resistance in half. But if you want a gravel tire for the road, that G-One is going to be hard to beat.
(yes there is a "LIKE" button at the bottom right of each post - but its possible you don't have enough posts to have it show up as an option for you).
I do some fast road rides with them (~27mph) when everyone else is on 23-25mm tires. They are not that far off. Realistically they are in the range of 18 watts per tire (pretty similar to the Compass - Rene Herse tire mentioned above). Someone recommended Gatorskin 32, but that tire is going to be no faster (I know, I've tried). If you want to put a race oriented tire on your bike like the Conti GP5000, that will make a difference - and can cut your rolling resistance in half. But if you want a gravel tire for the road, that G-One is going to be hard to beat.
(yes there is a "LIKE" button at the bottom right of each post - but its possible you don't have enough posts to have it show up as an option for you).
Agreed on the Schwalbe G-1's. My Niner RDO came 38c with them set up tubless, and they've been great tires so far. I ride about 50/50 road/gravel, and on the road they roll just fine. For serious gravel, I'll air them down to 40psi and they stick like glue. On the road, I've had no problem keeping a 20mph pace with my roadie friends on tiny 25c slicks.
this is why I suggested gp5000, if it still feels slow on them then it's the Trek Alpha aluminum. In my opinion its a pig to ride.
09-26-19, 11:22 AM
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I have a Checkpoint with the 35 mm G-Ones also, and they seem fast to me (at 65 psi). This is compared to the 33 mm Bontrager CX3s (70 psi) on my Crocketts.
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09-26-19, 12:12 PM
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I've found puncture and wear resistance for the Rene Herse tires to be very good. I usually get around 4500 miles from my regular Baby Shoe Pass 650bx42 tires, I only tested the other sizes and did not ride long enough to get any punctures or wear out. Which is keeping with tradition as for more than 12,000 miles I've yet to puncture a BSP, conversely I have ridden the very similar Grand Bois Hetre 650bx42 and had more than a dozen punctures over 6,000 miles.
Most of the weight savings for Rene Herse is in the sidewall, tread is around 2.5-3mm thick (slightly thinner on larger sizes). It's much thicker than the Gravel King Slick tires, for example. Here is a wonderfully high-res picture of Snoqualmie Pass that was cut within the first couple hundred miles of use - you can easily see the tread depth to the casing.
After seeing multiple Schwalbe blow-offs in person I avoid using their road and gravel tires.
Most of the weight savings for Rene Herse is in the sidewall, tread is around 2.5-3mm thick (slightly thinner on larger sizes). It's much thicker than the Gravel King Slick tires, for example. Here is a wonderfully high-res picture of Snoqualmie Pass that was cut within the first couple hundred miles of use - you can easily see the tread depth to the casing.
After seeing multiple Schwalbe blow-offs in person I avoid using their road and gravel tires.
09-26-19, 12:16 PM
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I've found puncture and wear resistance for the Rene Herse tires to be very good. I usually get around 4500 miles from my regular Baby Shoe Pass 650bx42 tires, I only tested the other sizes and did not ride long enough to get any punctures or wear out. Which is keeping with tradition as for more than 12,000 miles I've yet to puncture a BSP, conversely I have ridden the very similar Grand Bois Hetre 650bx42 and had more than a dozen punctures over 6,000 miles.
Most of the weight savings for Rene Herse is in the sidewall, tread is around 2.5-3mm thick (slightly thinner on larger sizes). It's much thicker than the Gravel King Slick tires, for example. Here is a wonderfully high-res picture of Snoqualmie Pass that was cut within the first couple hundred miles of use - you can easily see the tread depth to the casing.
After seeing multiple Schwalbe blow-offs in person I avoid using their road and gravel tires.
Most of the weight savings for Rene Herse is in the sidewall, tread is around 2.5-3mm thick (slightly thinner on larger sizes). It's much thicker than the Gravel King Slick tires, for example. Here is a wonderfully high-res picture of Snoqualmie Pass that was cut within the first couple hundred miles of use - you can easily see the tread depth to the casing.
After seeing multiple Schwalbe blow-offs in person I avoid using their road and gravel tires.
09-26-19, 12:20 PM
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Greg - did you delete that last post? To respond:
Let me put it in real life terms.
When doing a fast road group (I'm riding a gravel bike when everyone else is on a road race bike) with a pack doing ~25mph (with sprints over 30, fairly flat, Avg power 230, max <600 over 5 miles).
Riding a conti 4 season (or gatorskin) (32mm), Rambler(40mm), G-One(40mm) - I can do it, but I'm towards the back, struggling during sprints. The 32mm conti slicks are a little faster but surprisingly similar to the 40mm gravel tires (i.e. not a difference I would notice solo).
A stronger friend who brought out his 650bx48mm GK-SKs got dropped. (those are noisy and heavy tires for this type of ride - I gotta think the smaller sizes are faster).
When I'm on GP5000s, I'm at the front of the pack, taking pulls, top 5-10% when sprinting (realistically I'm saving about 40watts at 27mph compared to the tires above, and that is huge when drafting).
Power estimates at 27mph
25 watts (Race slick)
60 watts (good Gravel tire, good all season slick)
80 watts (650x48 Gravel kings)
also ---
General consensus in the last 5 years is that lower pressure is faster in the real world (even more so on gravel). Look at https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...0s-ii-23-25-28 (that site, not specifically that article) to see the impact of pressure. Some of the tires mentioned above are there (Gatorskin, GP5000, Schwalbe, Compass).
FYI - I ride ~60psi on the road at 32mm.
Your Kenda Kwick is a stupid fast tire for something so cheap. I don't have any empirical data, but they felt to me as fast as a good road tire (I was riding 30mm version). No puncture protection, but light, fast, and supple.
Let me put it in real life terms.
When doing a fast road group (I'm riding a gravel bike when everyone else is on a road race bike) with a pack doing ~25mph (with sprints over 30, fairly flat, Avg power 230, max <600 over 5 miles).
Riding a conti 4 season (or gatorskin) (32mm), Rambler(40mm), G-One(40mm) - I can do it, but I'm towards the back, struggling during sprints. The 32mm conti slicks are a little faster but surprisingly similar to the 40mm gravel tires (i.e. not a difference I would notice solo).
A stronger friend who brought out his 650bx48mm GK-SKs got dropped. (those are noisy and heavy tires for this type of ride - I gotta think the smaller sizes are faster).
When I'm on GP5000s, I'm at the front of the pack, taking pulls, top 5-10% when sprinting (realistically I'm saving about 40watts at 27mph compared to the tires above, and that is huge when drafting).
Power estimates at 27mph
25 watts (Race slick)
60 watts (good Gravel tire, good all season slick)
80 watts (650x48 Gravel kings)
also ---
General consensus in the last 5 years is that lower pressure is faster in the real world (even more so on gravel). Look at https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...0s-ii-23-25-28 (that site, not specifically that article) to see the impact of pressure. Some of the tires mentioned above are there (Gatorskin, GP5000, Schwalbe, Compass).
FYI - I ride ~60psi on the road at 32mm.
Your Kenda Kwick is a stupid fast tire for something so cheap. I don't have any empirical data, but they felt to me as fast as a good road tire (I was riding 30mm version). No puncture protection, but light, fast, and supple.
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09-26-19, 12:32 PM
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Greg - did you delete that last post? To respond:
Let me put it in real life terms.
When doing a fast road group (I'm riding a gravel bike when everyone else is on a road race bike) with a pack doing ~25mph (with sprints over 30, fairly flat, Avg power 230, max <600 over 5 miles).
Riding a conti 4 season (or gatorskin) (32mm), Rambler(40mm), G-One(40mm) - I can do it, but I'm towards the back, struggling during sprints. The 32mm conti slicks are a little faster but surprisingly similar to the 40mm gravel tires (i.e. not a difference I would notice solo).
A stronger friend who brought out his 650bx48mm GK-SKs got dropped. (those are noisy and heavy tires for this type of ride - I gotta think the smaller sizes are faster).
When I'm on GP5000s, I'm at the front of the pack, taking pulls, top 5-10% when sprinting (realistically I'm saving about 40watts at 27mph compared to the tires above, and that is huge when drafting).
Power estimates at 27mph
25 watts (Race slick)
60 watts (good Gravel tire, good all season slick)
80 watts (650x48 Gravel kings)
also ---
General consensus in the last 5 years is that lower pressure is faster in the real world (even more so on gravel). Look at https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...0s-ii-23-25-28 (that site, not specifically that article) to see the impact of pressure. Some of the tires mentioned above are there (Gatorskin, GP5000, Schwalbe, Compass).
FYI - I ride ~60psi on the road at 32mm.
Your Kenda Kwick is a stupid fast tire for something so cheap. I don't have any empirical data, but they felt to me as fast as a good road tire (I was riding 30mm version). No puncture protection, but light, fast, and supple.
Let me put it in real life terms.
When doing a fast road group (I'm riding a gravel bike when everyone else is on a road race bike) with a pack doing ~25mph (with sprints over 30, fairly flat, Avg power 230, max <600 over 5 miles).
Riding a conti 4 season (or gatorskin) (32mm), Rambler(40mm), G-One(40mm) - I can do it, but I'm towards the back, struggling during sprints. The 32mm conti slicks are a little faster but surprisingly similar to the 40mm gravel tires (i.e. not a difference I would notice solo).
A stronger friend who brought out his 650bx48mm GK-SKs got dropped. (those are noisy and heavy tires for this type of ride - I gotta think the smaller sizes are faster).
When I'm on GP5000s, I'm at the front of the pack, taking pulls, top 5-10% when sprinting (realistically I'm saving about 40watts at 27mph compared to the tires above, and that is huge when drafting).
Power estimates at 27mph
25 watts (Race slick)
60 watts (good Gravel tire, good all season slick)
80 watts (650x48 Gravel kings)
also ---
General consensus in the last 5 years is that lower pressure is faster in the real world (even more so on gravel). Look at https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...0s-ii-23-25-28 (that site, not specifically that article) to see the impact of pressure. Some of the tires mentioned above are there (Gatorskin, GP5000, Schwalbe, Compass).
FYI - I ride ~60psi on the road at 32mm.
Your Kenda Kwick is a stupid fast tire for something so cheap. I don't have any empirical data, but they felt to me as fast as a good road tire (I was riding 30mm version). No puncture protection, but light, fast, and supple.
09-26-19, 12:35 PM
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It’s odd how people always blame the tire when there is a problem.
I heard an interesting example where someone said they would never buy brand X tire because the tire split at the bead twice! Dang! In reality he was using bead hook carbon rims which are notorious for having sharp edges on the bead that will cut a tire if not hand finished perfectly.
Similarly, with Tubeless – the tires and rims have to be matched. Put the wrong tire on the wrong rim and it may not work. Its not the tire fault – it’s the industry’s fault for not coming up with a good road tubeless standard to match tires to wheels (one is on the horizon though).
(When I have had problems, its usually because I wasn’t disciplined mounting it, properly pressurizing it, and checking to see that the bead locks evenly before I put sealant in).
I heard an interesting example where someone said they would never buy brand X tire because the tire split at the bead twice! Dang! In reality he was using bead hook carbon rims which are notorious for having sharp edges on the bead that will cut a tire if not hand finished perfectly.
Similarly, with Tubeless – the tires and rims have to be matched. Put the wrong tire on the wrong rim and it may not work. Its not the tire fault – it’s the industry’s fault for not coming up with a good road tubeless standard to match tires to wheels (one is on the horizon though).
(When I have had problems, its usually because I wasn’t disciplined mounting it, properly pressurizing it, and checking to see that the bead locks evenly before I put sealant in).
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09-26-19, 01:26 PM
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maybe a G-One Speed? I run them in 38mm tubeless on 85% road and they're great. Very compliant and comfy tire. Pretty snappy too.
09-26-19, 01:54 PM
#21
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Rene Herse Snoqualmie Pass 700cx44 or Barlow Pass 700cx38 or Bon Jon Pass 700cx35. If you want to weight towards the road.
The best thing you can do for feeling fast on pavement with a good gravel tire is do your own rolldown testing. My preferred gravel tire (WTB Resolute) is maybe 3-5% slower than racing slicks. My slick gravel tires (WTB Byway, Compass Baby Shoe Pass, GravelKing Slick 700cx38) are 0% slower than narrow racing slicks. They "feel" slower and have some definite aero losses but even while racing the actual difference is not noticeable even at the most extreme end, for me. I've spent time racing in almost two dozen training crits to come to these conclusions. Get some big tires, go on those fast group rides and see how it goes.
Rene Herse Snoqualmie Pass 700cx44 or Barlow Pass 700cx38 or Bon Jon Pass 700cx35. If you want to weight towards the road.
The best thing you can do for feeling fast on pavement with a good gravel tire is do your own rolldown testing. My preferred gravel tire (WTB Resolute) is maybe 3-5% slower than racing slicks. My slick gravel tires (WTB Byway, Compass Baby Shoe Pass, GravelKing Slick 700cx38) are 0% slower than narrow racing slicks. They "feel" slower and have some definite aero losses but even while racing the actual difference is not noticeable even at the most extreme end, for me. I've spent time racing in almost two dozen training crits to come to these conclusions. Get some big tires, go on those fast group rides and see how it goes.
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09-26-19, 02:59 PM
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I'm curious -- do other crit riders give you strange looks or make comments about your 35-44mm tires, or are they wising up, too?
On training crits (or training rides for the crits) - a tire much over 28mm starts to become a handicap. Its not a sprinter tire. A crit is basically just riding in circles in a pack for an hour, followed by a 200-300mm sprint. 35-44mm tires lose in the final sprint - they are too heavy to spin up (and not too aero). For that matter, they suck on road climbs. I never see the few people on tires over 28mm having the strength to do pulls or ride at the front of the pack. If spoon can ride a tire with a 30-40 watt handicap and still be competitive in a crit a sprint, he is a monster. But ridding smart in a crit pack (with no hard climbs) and those tires - that's doable.
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09-26-19, 03:19 PM
#23
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According to Trek's research, under 20mph 32mm tires are faster than narrower ones, but over that the aero penalty makes them slower. This is presumably for paved riding.
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09-26-19, 03:27 PM
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You realize you池e hating on my brand new ride 🙂. I知 old, I致e ridden (and raced) on a lot of bikes made of a lot of materials. Ti, Steel, Carbon. I test road a few other bikes, this one felt great. Then again my reference standard is my old Bianchi Axis with an aluminum fork. Compared to that, this one rides like butter.
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09-26-19, 03:34 PM
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On 38mm GK slicks it takes me about 240W to hold 21mph on a flat 5mile section i ride regularly, about 220w on the same bike with 28mm GP4 seasons, and about 205w on my road bike with 25mm GP4000s. At 240w on my road bike at 240w(sweetspot) for the same section my PR is ~23.3mph, so the aero penalty get substantially worse
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