Electronic Shifting - What's the Point?
10-27-20, 10:12 AM
#226
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10-27-20, 10:35 AM
#227
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lets make peace!
10-27-20, 10:36 AM
#228
Junior Member
Cable stretch.
10-27-20, 10:47 AM
#229
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I've owned a Triumph GT-6 and a TR-6. The reason the British drink their beer warm? Lucas also makes refrigerators.
10-27-20, 10:49 AM
#230
Senior Member
earlier this year when I bought my new S-Works Tarmac, I opted for frame only so I could put Campy Super Record mech shifters. For me, I personally love the idea that a bike is human powered, so the simplicity and purity of a mech setup fits with that
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10-27-20, 11:13 AM
#232
Senior Member
Have never experienced it. And I mostly use Teflon coated cables from aliexpress... So probably not the highest quality.
In any case, no cable is going to keep stretching forever.
My old mountain bike didn't need an adjust in the last 5 years. My current one hasn't been adjusted since May, when I bought it. My road bike has been 2 years without adjusting anything.
My urban bike shifts like crap though. I'll admit that. Cables are 20 years old. Never been changed, almost never adjusted.
It's possible that lots of people are unable to set up a derailleur properly. And in my experience, that includes lots of mechanics from bike shops. That's why I learned to do it myself.
In any case, no cable is going to keep stretching forever.
My old mountain bike didn't need an adjust in the last 5 years. My current one hasn't been adjusted since May, when I bought it. My road bike has been 2 years without adjusting anything.
My urban bike shifts like crap though. I'll admit that. Cables are 20 years old. Never been changed, almost never adjusted.
It's possible that lots of people are unable to set up a derailleur properly. And in my experience, that includes lots of mechanics from bike shops. That's why I learned to do it myself.
10-27-20, 11:36 AM
#233
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Requirements of sponsorship with any sport go without saying. However if equipment reliability became an issue (costing wins), I think team management would have something to say about it.
10-27-20, 11:50 AM
#234
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A Chemical Engineer, an Electrical Engineer, and a Software Engineer are crossing Death Valley by car. Suddenly the car loses power and slows to a stop. They can't get the engine to start. The Chemical Engineer says, "There must be something wrong with the fuel." The Electrical Engineer says, "Nah. It has to be the ignitions system."
The Software Engineer says, "Let's get of the car and get back in again."
The Software Engineer says, "Let's get of the car and get back in again."
The biologist says "how cute, they're reproducing!"
Physicist replies "no we must have miscounted."
Under his breath the mathematician says "if one more person goes into that building, it'll be empty again."
10-27-20, 01:14 PM
#235
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10-27-20, 01:17 PM
#236
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A biologist, a physicist, and a mathematician are having lunch outside and a few beers with it. They watch 2 people go into an empty building, and a while later 3 come out.
The biologist says "how cute, they're reproducing!"
Physicist replies "no we must have miscounted."
Under his breath the mathematician says "if one more person goes into that building, it'll be empty again."
The biologist says "how cute, they're reproducing!"
Physicist replies "no we must have miscounted."
Under his breath the mathematician says "if one more person goes into that building, it'll be empty again."
An economist, an engineer, and a chemist are stranded on a desert island, with only a can of beans - but no can opener.
The engineer looks around at some rocks and twigs, and announces, "I can build a device to pry the lid off of the can."
The chemist finds various plants, checks them out, and says, "I can extract some compounds from these plants and make a substance that will burn through the steel, thus opening the can."
The economist listens to all of this, then - with a little exasperation bordering on disdain - says to them, "Why don't we just assume that we have a can opener?"
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10-27-20, 01:32 PM
#237
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But since the bike has been ridden 6000+ miles in the cold, rain and snow and hasn't happened again.
I can live with that.
10-27-20, 02:01 PM
#238
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Does Microshift have an electronic group yet?
10-28-20, 01:00 AM
#239
Banned.
One of the reasons I ride a bike is because I enjoy things like shifting, accelerating, braking....relying upon no external energy source...when I start to remove these things I start doing something different from biking. I used to have a rwd GT2 that made 800 rwhp. I lost a race to my friends GTR that made only 750 but his dual automated clutch shifted faster than my 6 speed. Of course anyone with an IQ over 40 can drive a GTR, an old school 6 speed Porsche with absolutely no electronic nannies takes skill.
It is the same with bikes. Electronic shifting is cool as hell, but it is a step away from pure biking. I would ride one, I would just never spend any money on one.
It is the same with bikes. Electronic shifting is cool as hell, but it is a step away from pure biking. I would ride one, I would just never spend any money on one.
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10-28-20, 06:40 AM
#240
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One of the reasons I ride a bike is because I enjoy things like shifting, accelerating, braking....relying upon no external energy source...when I start to remove these things I start doing something different from biking. I used to have a rwd GT2 that made 800 rwhp. I lost a race to my friends GTR that made only 750 but his dual automated clutch shifted faster than my 6 speed. Of course anyone with an IQ over 40 can drive a GTR, an old school 6 speed Porsche with absolutely no electronic nannies takes skill.
It is the same with bikes. Electronic shifting is cool as hell, but it is a step away from pure biking. I would ride one, I would just never spend any money on one.
It is the same with bikes. Electronic shifting is cool as hell, but it is a step away from pure biking. I would ride one, I would just never spend any money on one.
By your example you should be racing a Model T if you want "pure driving".
But to each their own..
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10-28-20, 07:02 AM
#241
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fwiw, I currently own four bikes:
- one has SRAM eTap electronic shifting
- one has Campy Record
- one has Shimano Ultegra (6600)
- one has Shimano 105
The most rewarding aspect of eTap electronic shifting for me is the number of hand positions I can be riding in and still execute up- or down-shifts, front or back, cleanly, quickly, and effortlessly. Every mechanical shifting system I own or have used requires that I either have my hands in one of a small subset of all possible bar locations, and/or that I exert a type of effort when shifting that at best can be called awkward and that at worst compromises safety/stability on the bike.
There are a few other features of eTap that I could possibly try to describe as "advantages", but ^^^that's the big one, the Game Changer, and that's the reason that my next bike will also have eTap.
- one has SRAM eTap electronic shifting
- one has Campy Record
- one has Shimano Ultegra (6600)
- one has Shimano 105
The most rewarding aspect of eTap electronic shifting for me is the number of hand positions I can be riding in and still execute up- or down-shifts, front or back, cleanly, quickly, and effortlessly. Every mechanical shifting system I own or have used requires that I either have my hands in one of a small subset of all possible bar locations, and/or that I exert a type of effort when shifting that at best can be called awkward and that at worst compromises safety/stability on the bike.
There are a few other features of eTap that I could possibly try to describe as "advantages", but ^^^that's the big one, the Game Changer, and that's the reason that my next bike will also have eTap.
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10-28-20, 10:30 AM
#242
Banned.
Electronic/automated shifting will not make the average cyclist much faster. Yes, it might give the pros 2-3 seconds in a 4 hour race, but for normal riders it just takes one more element out of the equation.
Don't get me wrong....you want to give me a top of the line Shimano or SRAM shifting set up I most certainly will take it and ride it. There was a time in my life when I could afford to buy pretty much any bike I wanted...dropping $10k would have been nothing then. Unfortunately, those days are long gone. Today my money goes for one thing, and one thing only: Quality parts. I just dropped a big chunk of cash on some wheels with Dura ace hubs. Once I get my bike to 100% top of the line parts everywhere (in my case mostly dura ace....it would probably be SRAM for the gravel bike I am saving up for) then, and only then would I consider electronic shifting.
WARNING, INCOMING RANT!
But like you said, to each his own. I am a Dinosauer. At 58 (started riding at 5) the bike world is very, very different from what it used to be. 40 years ago most bike discussions were about the engine. You would spend an hour talking about how to get more from your engine (IE your body) and maybe 5 minutes arguing about which was better, Shimano or Campy. Today it is the reverse. Today, show up for a group ride and half the people are fat and they are riding an $8k bike. And good lord...these fatties are wet nursed along, because the shop ruiing the group ride knows who butters their bread. I can't recall one single fat cyclist from back in the day. You got dropped, you were on your own. All the bikers were hard as hell.
End rant
.
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10-28-20, 10:34 AM
#243
Banned.
fwiw, I currently own four bikes:
- one has SRAM eTap electronic shifting
- one has Campy Record
- one has Shimano Ultegra (6600)
- one has Shimano 105
The most rewarding aspect of eTap electronic shifting for me is the number of hand positions I can be riding in and still execute up- or down-shifts, front or back, cleanly, quickly, and effortlessly. Every mechanical shifting system I own or have used requires that I either have my hands in one of a small subset of all possible bar locations, and/or that I exert a type of effort when shifting that at best can be called awkward and that at worst compromises safety/stability on the bike.
There are a few other features of eTap that I could possibly try to describe as "advantages", but ^^^that's the big one, the Game Changer, and that's the reason that my next bike will also have eTap.
- one has SRAM eTap electronic shifting
- one has Campy Record
- one has Shimano Ultegra (6600)
- one has Shimano 105
The most rewarding aspect of eTap electronic shifting for me is the number of hand positions I can be riding in and still execute up- or down-shifts, front or back, cleanly, quickly, and effortlessly. Every mechanical shifting system I own or have used requires that I either have my hands in one of a small subset of all possible bar locations, and/or that I exert a type of effort when shifting that at best can be called awkward and that at worst compromises safety/stability on the bike.
There are a few other features of eTap that I could possibly try to describe as "advantages", but ^^^that's the big one, the Game Changer, and that's the reason that my next bike will also have eTap.
Very interesting. Any chance you can post a picture of your hand positions?
10-28-20, 10:40 AM
#244
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WARNING, INCOMING RANT!
But like you said, to each his own. I am a Dinosauer. At 58 (started riding at 5) the bike world is very, very different from what it used to be. 40 years ago most bike discussions were about the engine. You would spend an hour talking about how to get more from your engine (IE your body) and maybe 5 minutes arguing about which was better, Shimano or Campy. Today it is the reverse. Today, show up for a group ride and half the people are fat and they are riding an $8k bike. And good lord...these fatties are wet nursed along, because the shop ruiing the group ride knows who butters their bread. I can't recall one single fat cyclist from back in the day. You got dropped, you were on your own. All the bikers were hard as hell.
End rant
.
But like you said, to each his own. I am a Dinosauer. At 58 (started riding at 5) the bike world is very, very different from what it used to be. 40 years ago most bike discussions were about the engine. You would spend an hour talking about how to get more from your engine (IE your body) and maybe 5 minutes arguing about which was better, Shimano or Campy. Today it is the reverse. Today, show up for a group ride and half the people are fat and they are riding an $8k bike. And good lord...these fatties are wet nursed along, because the shop ruiing the group ride knows who butters their bread. I can't recall one single fat cyclist from back in the day. You got dropped, you were on your own. All the bikers were hard as hell.
End rant
.
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10-28-20, 10:43 AM
#245
Banned.
LOLOLOL... When I ride in my neighborhood as I pass by the kids I yell "harden up Nancy boys"
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10-28-20, 11:05 AM
#246
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My point was if you want to be purely mechanical and have no electronics, you should have a Model T where you have to hand crank the engine, no electric starter, gravity feed fuel supply, no fuel pump and you need to ****** the ignition via a lever on the steering wheel to get it running.
No electronic engine management running the fuel supply and ignition.... too fancy for you.
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10-28-20, 12:07 PM
#247
Banned.
I am currently building a motor out of two gerbils and treadwheels. I am injecting them with steroids so I expect some decent power output.
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10-28-20, 12:14 PM
#248
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10-28-20, 12:17 PM
#249
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I didn't think there was a major need for electronic when I got my Wilier with Sram Red eTap - it was nice, sure, but I never really thought it an essential upgrade and accepted it as being a part of the bike I wanted but would have happily accepted mechanical on the same deal.
Then I bought my Madone with Ultegra mechanical and now I'm looking forward to upgrading to the next Dura Ace Di2 when it is eventually released. The reason is that while for general riding I'm still perfectly happy with mechanical, I absolutely prefer electronic shifting for racing.
When racing I like sprint buttons on the drops, I like that a touch on the levers shifts the gear and holding it shifts several gears. It is just better/faster when I want to shift not having to make the larger hand movement mech demands vs touch. I couldn't give a stuff about 'purist' concerns when I am racing - just as I went from 22 years driving manual cars to PDK (and equivalent) and not looking back; I like the faster gear change and I'm not interested in how fast I can do it manually vs electronic when it can never be matched. I will always opt for the faster version.
Then I bought my Madone with Ultegra mechanical and now I'm looking forward to upgrading to the next Dura Ace Di2 when it is eventually released. The reason is that while for general riding I'm still perfectly happy with mechanical, I absolutely prefer electronic shifting for racing.
When racing I like sprint buttons on the drops, I like that a touch on the levers shifts the gear and holding it shifts several gears. It is just better/faster when I want to shift not having to make the larger hand movement mech demands vs touch. I couldn't give a stuff about 'purist' concerns when I am racing - just as I went from 22 years driving manual cars to PDK (and equivalent) and not looking back; I like the faster gear change and I'm not interested in how fast I can do it manually vs electronic when it can never be matched. I will always opt for the faster version.
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10-28-20, 12:30 PM
#250
Banned.
- NO, NO, No...don't use Hamsters, everyone makes that mistake. You want to go with Guinea Pigs. They are stronger, consume relatively less food and are much less messy and easy to take care of. They also responde to steropids much better. When I inject Hamsters they get gynecomastia, testicular atrophy and rage to the point of constantly fighting. I have to keep them on valium and an estrogen blocker, very expensive.
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