JeffOYB

We've often had a local group ride culture where when we get onto a busier, narrower road with worse visibility that the group all hollers "singlefile!" and we line-out and gaps form and a couple dozen riders suddenly occupy a quarter-mile of road and no car passes. This is really starting to seem like a non-functional response.

Is there a newer better approach to this situation? Is there a solid consensus?

I'm inclined to encourage maintaining two-up, taking the lane, and having the rear outer rider interact with upcoming drivers. ...Hand out "wait." When the group sees a chance for passing, the rear outer rider signals to the driver to "pass now!"

Or should we still singlefile but don't let gaps go?

There seems to be rider nerves and hastiness in these situations. We avoid these roads typically -- maybe some regions are stuck with them -- so we tend to have everyone "scurrying" in singlefile to get the heck to the next better road so we can get off the narrow one.

Whattaya think?

Juan Foote

The correct answer to this is tied to local laws concerning the legality of riding two (or more) abreast.

The practical answer would seem to be to tighten up, double up, hold the lane and get through as quickly as possible to minimize impact on traffic....even if it doesn't seem so to those involved at that particular moment.

gregf83 

Single file is the worst configuration for a narrow winding road with limited visibility. Drivers will invariably attempt a pass on a blind corner and if an oncoming car comes panic ensues and the riders get 'squeezed'.

Better to ride two-up and limit the size of the groups to something manageable.

rm -rf

Situations for waving cars through:

1. Driver is timid (or won't cross the double yellow) and won't pass even on a straight road with long sight lines. Waving them through helps. This is where riding single file really helps, too.

2. Front rider is at the top of a hill or at the curve, and can see the road ahead is clear. Occasionally helpful. But most drivers won't start passing until they see it's clear.

3. Road ahead appears clear, and the distance to the next hill or curve is enough for a car to pass. Not so good. If the driver waits to start passing, then the the clear distance is reduced already. It's funny how often an oncoming car pops into view just at the wrong time.



Groups and traffic

I find it really hard to keep a larger group (over 12 riders) from spreading way out. A couple of riders speed up at the front, the rest sort of follow, and now there's a rider every 50 feet along the road. I suppose a good ride leader would be up front here, and back off the pace a little, and tell the other riders to not ride ahead.

A reasonable version would be to have the big group in smaller sub-groups with a large gap between. Then cars can pass each group of 3-6 riders separately. But riders won't stay together like this. It never works!

Two-up is the best for dealing with cars on a narrow road with curves, but drivers may get aggravated after a while. These roads often don't have anywhere to pull the group aside and clear the traffic. We always wave any following cars through at stop signs. "Wave them through!"

On straight roads, going to 1-up riding when there's a "car back" lets the driver know that we saw them, and there's plenty of room to pass.

JeffOYB

So... just to wrap up... this is a specific local scenario that we need proven help with.

We've been shifting to a strung-out singlefile on fast narrow blind roads. I question this. I'm thinking we need to change to take-lane and 2abreast. We can be 2 abreast no worries legally.

We also need to make sure leaders are at the back with blinkies and hand signal to cars then motion them to pass when safe.

These situations happen about twice on our club-fast-group training route for one-mile sections. It's the only part of our route where we have uncertainty. We are sensing that this singlefile approach is not working.

It's possible that bunching up the singlefile and ensuring no gaps is an option -- it visually signals 'we're giving you drivers some space.' but it still creates a long line of riders.

whattaya think? ... I need to hear from experienced long time elite group training ride leaders, basically. any here? thanks!

Paul Barnard

I watched a video demonstration of a car passing a group of bicyclists strung out and the passing the same group doubled up. The passing vehicle spent appreciably less time with a portion of its vehicle in the oncoming lane when the cyclists were doubled up. Motorists will never be able to comprehend that though. I avoid situations where the size of the group and/or the road conditions make it so that vehicles get stuck behind us for more than just a moment. If I am in a situation where they get stuck behind me, I don't mind pulling over and letting them pass. I try to be respectful of other road users and don't mind inconveniencing myself for a few seconds to help them out.

JoeyBike

Group rides are rude by nature and inconsiderate towards other road users. This became such a problem in one county (parish) in Louisiana that the citizens voted in an ordinance that required groups of 5 or more cyclists to acquire a parade permit and an police escort. (I believe this has been retracted now).

I rode with this group which might number 50 riders or more, but after just a few miles everyone spread out according to ability and mood and usually ended up with less than 10 in any "pack". This was not a race club, it was a "touring" club, but most riders were on road bikes in full kit. They traveled on mostly quiet country roads but some busier highways now and then. As the population of residents exploded over the years AND the numbers of riders increased it was just too much mayhem for the county cops to deal with. Since technically no cyclists were breaking any laws, they decided to CREATE a law just for them.

I gotta say that after a couple rides with that group I quit doing it and don't blame the locals one bit for trying to discourage big groups. It really is rude to just go "invade" someone's home stomping grounds in large enough numbers to inconvenience every single motorist out there. How would you like it if every narrow 2-lane road you cycle on had 50 cars doing 5mph stretched out over ten miles?

So what do I think?

Be considerate out there on your bike. You make the rest of us look bad.

JeffOYB

our group isn't any exotic exception. It's a typical club ride. 15-20 riders. we could make a 70-ft long 2-up compact bunch, a 150-ft compact singlefile bunch, or a strung-out 600-ft bunch. any SOP out there for best interaction with drivers?

Paul Barnard

Would the Golden Rule work?

JeffOYB

This seems overly extreme. Nearly all motorists "get it" just fine. Hardly any object to a brief hold-up. We just need to know if there's an SOP out there.

I've never seen it mentioned anywhere official that zero affect is the desired goal for polite road sharing among a wide range of users. There's always a wide range of speeds and sizes. A bike group can be more convenient than a farm tractor. Everyone just needs to communicate clearly and make the solution easy to deal with.

...I've seen the road sharing video as well. Is this the SOP? Our goal is consistency, easiest to manage, etc.

Paul Barnard

No, there is no SOP. Either way you do it, certain motorists are going to be miffed. If you are legitimately working with the other road users, then that's all you can do. But you did use a busier two lane as a point of reference. I avoid group rides that when the "couple dozen" riders strung out take up "1/4 mile" on busier two lanes. It's just not in the best interest of all road users. If I simply had to be part of that group ride, I'd break it down into more manageable groups on the busy narrow stretch, then put the group back together where it's easier for other road users to get around you.

JoeyBike

Isn't there a current thread on A&S about some dude running over an entire group ride killing about 5 people? The best way to do the group thing is to go bowling instead. Maybe get a blister on your thumb and likely not aggravate the entire neighborhood OR get clobbered.

Just a thought. I mean, you are admitting to having an issue or a "problem" with your group ride. No one is making you do it.

FullGas

[QUOTE=JoeyBike;18858572]Group rides are rude by nature and inconsiderate towards other road users. QUOTE]

meh, not any worse than the group of 'horseless carriage' enthusiasts I got behind recently...~20 vehicles going 17 mph (on a winding 2-lane county road with a 55 mph limit).

they made no attempt to accommodate other road users and chugged along for miles while being completely oblivious to the mass of cars piling up behind them.

most cyclists behave better than that...

Paul Barnard

[QUOTE=FullGas;18858783]I love the "but someone else does it" logic.

JeffOYB

OK, I accept that some here are against group rides. Takes all kinds. Bikers against biking -- it happens. (In my view the solution to tragedy is NOT to get off the road.)

I'm wondering about SOP for the thousands of typical club rides out there. Any experts here? I assumed there'd be people here who keep in touch with safe practices for all sorts of riders, maybe are involved with organizing, etc. ...Who can give established protocols, etc., rather than opinions.

JoeyBike

I would imagine if you put a mile or two between each cyclist that would do it.

There is no SOP for group rides generally. You should post your question over in the Roadie forum though. Those dudes often ride Giros and such every weekend and have tons of experience with everything group related. They usually ride in one or two large packs (pelotons) to take advantage of slip-stream drafting. No way are they going to spread out to accommodate motorists. And they don't care what motorists think. But you should really ask them.

JeffOYB

OK, I'll ask the roadies. But there is definitely SOP. Two options that we need to sort. (Your odd suggestion is something I've never encountered in decades of group riding around the nation. Odd.)

Paul Barnard

When I lived in MS I rode as part of groups that ranged in size from just a few to dozens. We handled it just as I outlined above. If I still lived in that area I would still do group rides. Group rides are a special kind of fun. With them comes a special kind of responsibility. I am not an expert by any stretch. I will tell you that our club was well respected and worked hard to foster a positive relationship with other road users. I am sorry I can't tell you what you want to hear. If you cross post in the Road forum, you'll eventually get someone to validate your position. That is after all what you appear to be seeking.

Paul Barnard

I read your post after I made my last one. We might be related.

rm -rf

I was just on a ride this weekend, that had to get through a busy highway for less than a mile. No shoulder at all, and the road was just rolling enough that cars couldn't see far enough ahead to pass.

So we road 2-up in the lane, with a pace to make sure the whole group of about 10 riders stayed together. It worked great, nobody tried to pass, no honking either. But it only took about 3 or 4 minutes to get to where the road widened again.

JoeyBike

Wow...some kind of mind meld at the exact same time!

JoeyBike

It was "tongue-in-cheek". If you put a mile between each rider it wouldn't be a group ride and maybe you and the others would get used do doing things politely and alone that don't aggravate all of the other road users. "Share The Road" works both ways.

(Actually I hate "Share The Road" as I don't think motorists get it)

Chris0516

How many are usually in the group?

Single file, but also taking the lane. Not the entire group together, but in pairs to allow for the potential road traffic.