Cyclo derailleur considerations
09-16-18, 10:11 PM
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Cyclo derailleur considerations
I'm working on a period appropriate 3 speed set up for my 1950s Belgian bicycle (most likely Flandria frame).
I have picked up two 3 speed derailleurs.
The first one is a French made Cyclo Tour derailleur. I have yet to figure out a good clamp setup but I like the look. This is a temp mockup.
The second one is an English made Cyclo Gear Company Benelux (1950 version).
The only issue is that to use this derailleur I think I'll have to drill a hole behind the right drop out to prevent it from falling out when removing the wheel. But there isn't a lot of space for this, see below.
Which of the two shall I use?
I have picked up two 3 speed derailleurs.
The first one is a French made Cyclo Tour derailleur. I have yet to figure out a good clamp setup but I like the look. This is a temp mockup.
The second one is an English made Cyclo Gear Company Benelux (1950 version).
The only issue is that to use this derailleur I think I'll have to drill a hole behind the right drop out to prevent it from falling out when removing the wheel. But there isn't a lot of space for this, see below.
Which of the two shall I use?
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09-17-18, 02:35 AM
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You shouldn't have much trouble finding the correct mounting bolt for the English one. It's a spacer that fits into the inner side of the dropout, and a bolt holds it to the derailleur. The axle moves a half inch forward, no problem. Every cheap Shimano or SunTour derailer comes with one, and they are interchangeable.
The French one is going to be more difficult. In general I would not use a chainstay mounted derailleur unless the frame had the correct mounting tab brazed to it.
Both models are remarkably unforgiving of damage and misalignment. If the bike falls over on the right side, the derailleur gets bent and is really hard to straighten. A derailleur bent in this way is liable to shift itself into the spokes without warning. There's a reason you don't see these in use any more!
The French one is going to be more difficult. In general I would not use a chainstay mounted derailleur unless the frame had the correct mounting tab brazed to it.
Both models are remarkably unforgiving of damage and misalignment. If the bike falls over on the right side, the derailleur gets bent and is really hard to straighten. A derailleur bent in this way is liable to shift itself into the spokes without warning. There's a reason you don't see these in use any more!
09-17-18, 06:03 AM
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Unless the English thread is Whitworth? probably worth considering.
09-17-18, 06:26 AM
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Been there ... done that, with both 3-speed and 4-speed cog clusters on Sturmey AW hubs. I have never met a bandspring/pull-chain rear derailleur I liked at all, and the only way I got my otherwise wonderful 3x4 system to work reliably and crisply was to install a first-generation Campagnolo Gran Sport derailleur. There is a good reason almost every 1960-61 Varsinental got retrofitted with a Huret Allvit (usually) or even a Campagnolo (Continental belonging to one of my friends) -- the original Simplex bandspring/pullchain units were already-obsolete junk provided by the low bidder. (True story -- see Keith Kingbay's account in "The Dancing Chain." Lucien "Simplex" Juy had undercut the Huret brothers' price by $1.27/bicycle, a deal-breaking sum in 1959 dollars. Kingbay got the Huret brothers drunk at a 3-martini dinner at a Chicago steak house and then convinced them to match Juy's price, and the 1962 and subsequent Varsinentals came with the vastly superior Huret system, including a proper cable-controlled front derailleur in addition to a rear derailleur that at least worked properly.)
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
Last edited by John E; 09-17-18 at 06:29 AM.
09-17-18, 09:50 AM
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You shouldn't have much trouble finding the correct mounting bolt for the English one. It's a spacer that fits into the inner side of the dropout, and a bolt holds it to the derailleur. The axle moves a half inch forward, no problem. Every cheap Shimano or SunTour derailer comes with one, and they are interchangeable.
09-17-18, 10:36 AM
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Yes, that's the part you want!
09-18-18, 10:40 AM
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That the frame does not have the braze-on for Cyclo or Simplex old style chainstay derailleurs is a good sign it was intended for a slightly more modern derailleur. There is a good reason so many of these are seen with early Simplex Prestige installed. If it were mine I'd search out the earliest Allvit to be found. More fun riding a bike with parts that work than ones that need daily fiddling.
09-18-18, 12:12 PM
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That the frame does not have the braze-on for Cyclo or Simplex old style chainstay derailleurs is a good sign it was intended for a slightly more modern derailleur. There is a good reason so many of these are seen with early Simplex Prestige installed. If it were mine I'd search out the earliest Allvit to be found. More fun riding a bike with parts that work than ones that need daily fiddling.
By by the way there is a Flandria on CL. It’s kind of a mess and it seems from the 60s, not 70s. ://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/bik/d/flandria-vintage-mens-racing/6693590102.html
Last edited by b dub; 09-18-18 at 12:58 PM.
09-19-18, 06:17 AM
#9
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That the frame does not have the braze-on for Cyclo or Simplex old style chainstay derailleurs is a good sign it was intended for a slightly more modern derailleur. There is a good reason so many of these are seen with early Simplex Prestige installed. If it were mine I'd search out the earliest Allvit to be found. More fun riding a bike with parts that work than ones that need daily fiddling.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
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