REDMASTA

New wheels being built up using Phil hubs. Front wheel is 20h 2-cross. Phil logo won't line up with valve hole, it's always somewhat off center. Rotating hub 180 so logo is facing opposite of the valve hole it looks more aligned, maybe optical illusion, but now it's "upside down" if going by what is usually done.

I understand it has zero affect on wheel performance but still prefer it to look half way decent. Need to choose, slightly off center but facing valve hole, or facing opposite direction and appearing more centered. Any suggestions? Thanks.

Andrew R Stewart 

Aligning the hub's logo WRT the valve hole is certainly a goal many of us try for. Depending on spoke count and cross pattern one can get very close to spot on. The way I do it is to position the rim and hub as they will end up ideally then hold a spoke located at the hole adjacent to the valve and angled as the pattern dictates and as your preference of head in or out requires. Then the closest hub hole is noted. I'll feed into the hub that flange's side of spokes and lace then to the rim, twist the hub to emulate the pattern and check on the logo/valve relationship. If the logo is pretty close I continue with the second side of that flanges spokes. If not I redo the first side's spokes in the corrected holes in the hub.

So it's really just playing around with keeping an eye on how stuff lines up, angles away from the flange and how the rim's holes might be off set. Once you've done a few wheels and paid attention to this stuff things start to make more sense sooner and the process takes less time. Andy

Unca_Sam

When the god of bicycle wheels inspects your wheel, he will look through your valve hole to see what hub is in the wheel he is granting is prodigious blessing to. If he can't see the hub logo, your wheel will be improperly blessed, and you will be subject to the whims of mister wibbly-wobbly, destroyer of wheels.

Does that answer your question?

Maybe you have a left-handed rim instead of the usual right handed rims, and the rim label will be in the right spot, but upside down instead when viewed from the drive side.

REDMASTA

I guess these wheels are doomed then, not going to line up properly, best to just run the Phil logo facing the opposite direction and ride in purgatory.

3alarmer 

.
...there was an epic thread some years back on OCD and this valve hole/hub label issue. I'll see if I can find it. It was there I first realized that some people call it CDO, because they want need the letters to be in ascending order.

ljsense

Try flipping your rim around.

3alarmer 

...here's a good one, but not the one I'm thinking of.

Here's another good one, but still not the right one.

....damn it, it must have gotten purged in a cleanup. This is triggering my OCD !!!

Unca_Sam

+1 to the flip the rim guy.

I have a Suntour XCD front wheel that I was going to use, and then I noticed that the label was facing around 5 o'clock from the valve hole. What do you think I did with a perfectly acceptable build?

I unscrewed all of the nipples, and re-laced the thing with the hub label in the appropriate location.
Full disclosure, the spokes are OLD and I was getting a lot of friction when trying to adjust them, so I was already unscrewing each spoke to lube the threads and the nipple seat. Two had frozen to the nipples and preferred bearking at the threads to unscrewing. It's still 'ugly' as a rebuild because I was stuck with the original cross pattern, which was backwards (inside spokes are pushing, rather than pulling). Thankfully, it's a front wheel, and the consensus here is that 'pushing' and 'pulling' don't affect the build.

I think if you're careful, you can satisfy that feeling, moving the holes in the rim might give you the alignment you need. Unstick your rim label and switch the orientation if you're really hung up on it.

AnkleWork

Welcome to the Pop Psych Self Help Forum.

You can choose one of two paths leading in opposite directions:
1. Return the hub as defective for replacement; repeat as necessary; post here all about it. Maybe mix in some meds to lock-in your condition.
Or 2. Get some exercise to clear your head and then fill your life with some meaningful experiences.

ThermionicScott 

I'm not sure what's worse: a hub label that doesn't align with the valve hole at all, or one that almost does.

WizardOfBoz

The Almighty will also surely punish Nabisco for this:

B.C.Bikes

Have you got any photos to show the issue?

REDMASTA

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

The rear wheel which is 24h 2-cross will line up fine. I think it is the 20h 2-cross pattern and how it works with this rim and hub combo. No matter how you flip the wheel or position the hub the logo will always be off to one side a bit. You just don't notice it when it's facing away from the valve hole, tricks the eye.

Switching to a radial pattern would solve the issue but not sure I care that much, I like the 2-cross front. Will most likely just run the hubs in upside down mode, anger the wheel gods and trigger some CDO along the way .

WizardOfBoz

I've got the front Bontrager Paradigm Elite wheel off my bike to address some squeaking. The factory installed the hub offset by 1 pair of spoke holes. Grrrr. Now my OCD is acting up....

Unca_Sam

HEY! You're not going to attempt to fix something that's not broken, are you? Just look at the QR ends and call it a day!

Unca_Sam

For me, the obvious reason for this rule begins and ends with wheelbuilding. For a human building a wheel, looking at the rim slightly offset, you might lose a couple seconds looking for that built-in reference point, the valve hole. Lining that up with the hub logo simply moves your focus to an easier landmark, so you don't waste time looking for your reference point. Otherwise it's purely aesthetics, and as you admitted, doesn't add to the build quality on the wheel anyway.

ThermionicScott 

When I built up my 650A wheels, I didn't have a lot of wheelbuilding experience under my belt yet, and I managed to screw up the valve position on both of them. The front was off by one spoke, so I had to reach between two close (but still parallel) spokes to pump up the tire. But the rear was off by two, so I had to reach between crossed spokes to work with the valve. I put up with that for a couple seasons of riding, but eventually relieved my OCD by de-tensioning the wheel and moving the spokes ends one at a time until everything was correct, then brought it back up to tension and trued it. Now the hub label faces the valve, too. Whew!

mprince

My front wheel has the valve hole and the hub logo lined up perfectly, the rear does not - I must have been in a hurry when I built it. Yes this triggers my OCD, but not enough to re-lace the wheel. You can bet the next wheel build will line up front and rear...

WizardOfBoz

I got the endpieces off of the hub, and I can see where the beautiful black anodization on the inner flange edge is worn at one sector of the inner disk (the disk faces up to the sealed bearing and performs a redundant mechanical seal). I'm going to sand it down a bit, grease the heck out of it, and reinstall. Then I'll ride...

trailangel

Phil expects you to orientate the hub so the name PHIL is readable from the riding position. This my not be important for their hubs but it is when installing their bottom bracket.

sweeks

But it feels so good!


Through the Valve hole. :-)

EDIT: Image of hub label aligning procedure notes added



A friend described this easy way to line up the hub label with the valve hole.

mpetry912 

it's a nice "style points" thing if you can do it. On a 36 spoke wheel you have a hub / rim alignment every 10 degrees.

on a 20 spoke wheel you have that alignment every 18 degrees so it may not be possible to get an exact line up. The lacing pattern should not have anything to do with it.

Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA USA

REDMASTA

Thanks for this bit of info.

Bill in VA

I MUST forget this post! My mind is already obsessed with always having the tire label centered on the valve stem. Of course, now I will have to look and see if the hub label lines up..., if not the shame, the shame

Unca_Sam

There's a separate and equally valid practice of placing the stem in the middle of the inflation information for easy reference...