Fairly certain LBS damaged my frame, am I crazy?
09-29-20, 07:18 AM
#126
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Greenwood SC USA
Posts: 2,252
Bikes: 2002 Mercian Vincitore, 1982 Mercian Colorado, 1976 Puch Royal X, 1973 Raleigh Competition, 1971 Gitane Tour de France and others
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 823 Post(s)
Liked 1,395 Times
in
694 Posts
I like it that ultimately there is a solution that is as gracious and graceful for all involved as can be reached after this problem. I am also eager to see the repair story as it unfolds. I remember looking at the Super Tourer in a then-new catalog from whichever bike shop in Charlottesville, VA, sold Raleighs c.1974 and not getting it then. Now, I would be intrigued to play around with one and compare it to the Competition Mk. II.
Likes For rustystrings61:
09-29-20, 07:48 AM
#127
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 144
Bikes: 2008 Specialized Roubaix Elite, 2002 Specialized Sirius Pro, 1985 Vitus 979 (DuraAce 7400), 1985 Bianchi Trofeo
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 25 Times
in
15 Posts
If they didn't point it out when you dropped it off, didn't call you when they started the work, and didn't point it out when you picked it up until you pointed it out... Well then they did the damage and were trying to hide it.
Or it means that they have no idea how to inspect a bike. Both are very very bad things.
Or it means that they have no idea how to inspect a bike. Both are very very bad things.
This
It is just a damming on the quality of the "mechanic" that he saw a bent tube and (1) worked on the bike as if it wasn't there and (2) didn't say anything to you or the shop owner / manager.
There are many people looking for jobs these days, which is high motivation for someone with a job to not lose it by all means necessary (including lying).
09-29-20, 11:32 AM
#128
Used to be Conspiratemus
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hamilton ON Canada
Posts: 1,512
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 297 Post(s)
Liked 245 Times
in
163 Posts
Why don’t more people know this?
Last edited by conspiratemus1; 09-29-20 at 11:48 AM. Reason: My tablet is ghost-editing.
Likes For conspiratemus1:
09-29-20, 11:46 AM
#129
Zip tie Karen
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Posts: 7,004
Bikes: '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '18 Velobuild VB-R-022, '21 Tsunami SNM-100
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1465 Post(s)
Liked 1,542 Times
in
806 Posts
I have sued in small claims court two times, once in Virginia and the other in California. In both cases, I had property damaged. First by a piano tuner who inappropriately tuned a turn of the 20th century to A440 destroying many strings, and Second by a private individual who carelessly opened his truck door into my parked car. In each case, my evidence was conclusive and complete, yet the judge ruled only 50% award. Hence my loose use of the Solomon reference.
Last edited by Phil_gretz; 09-29-20 at 12:36 PM.
09-29-20, 11:57 AM
#130
Banned.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,199
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,409 Times
in
909 Posts
Small claims court. As evidence, bring in your photograph and the frame itself. Bring an exact replica of the clamp head used in their shop. Bring three expert estimates on the value. Sue for fair market value to replace the entire bicycle. You will win.
Worst case, even if Solomon himself were to be the judge, you'd receive 50%, which will cover a replacement frame. These can still be found in the $150 range if you are patient.
Worst case, even if Solomon himself were to be the judge, you'd receive 50%, which will cover a replacement frame. These can still be found in the $150 range if you are patient.
Likes For RobbieTunes:
10-01-20, 09:05 PM
#131
Senior Member
A friend of mine had their car recalled, engine to be replaced. Since this is not something the dealer makes profit on, they tasked this to their oil-change flunky. Didn't even test drive the car after, just rolled it out of the garage. My friend starts up the car, huge jerking, the clutch would not disengage. The so-called mechanic installed the flywheel BACKWARDS. On a tapered shaft.
Protect yourself legally, don't make a certain claim you cannot prove. Just let the bike shop know that you're going to publish the photos, and say who the bike shop is, and let people draw their own conclusions. Give them a deadline.
I do 100% of my own maintenance, both for cost and exactly stuff like this. Mostly because I take the time to do a proper wheel truing. First thing I do when I get a "new" bike (always used), is not only true the wheels, but equalize the spoke tensions unless the rim is bent such that things need to be uneven to keep in true.
But I live in Seattle, and I'd like to know who this bike shop is, just for reference.
Last edited by Duragrouch; 10-02-20 at 01:39 PM. Reason: flywheel installed backwards, not clutch
Likes For Duragrouch:
10-01-20, 09:58 PM
#132
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,829 Times
in
1,995 Posts
I don’t like liars.
lawyer up on principle
there a lawyer in town that emphasizes representing bike riders? Let them do the confrontation. A demand letter on their stationary could well do it.
lawyer up on principle
there a lawyer in town that emphasizes representing bike riders? Let them do the confrontation. A demand letter on their stationary could well do it.
10-02-20, 01:04 AM
#134
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,829 Times
in
1,995 Posts
10-02-20, 11:34 AM
#135
señor miembro
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,623
Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3886 Post(s)
Liked 6,482 Times
in
3,206 Posts
10-02-20, 11:49 AM
#137
señor miembro
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,623
Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3886 Post(s)
Liked 6,482 Times
in
3,206 Posts
Likes For SurferRosa:
10-02-20, 12:31 PM
#138
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Upper Left, USA
Posts: 1,915
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Liked 444 Times
in
298 Posts
Yes, agreed. I still respect the shop, things happen. I wish they would have owned up initially, but I could see how this could all happen. I suspect/hope whatever mechanic did this is getting some grief for it. I generally go there for parts and to verify technical things I am fuzzy on and I'll continue doing that. This does reinforce that you are taking a risk whenever you ask someone else to maintain your bike, especially if you don't know the mechanic personally.
@sheddle I am also available for socially distant wrench work if ever needed.
@sheddle I am also available for socially distant wrench work if ever needed.
Likes For tricky:
10-02-20, 02:05 PM
#139
Senior Member
I also live in Seattle in a community living environment and face the same issues. My solution: A "skinny" table, 18" deep front-to-back, 60" wide, 29" height to surface, fits easily in my tiny room, milk crates with my dry food storage goes underneath. Most of the time, can serve as a table for other things, such as a desk, or to store the bike on it. For bike repairs, my bike goes up on it, either inverted (with blocks under the grips due to the clip on aero bars) or right side up. Table catches all dirt and oil. Space beside and under bike for tools when working.
Bigger challenge is cleaning parts like chain, cogs, etc. I have scrubbed them with detergent in common laundry sink but I would like to get a parts washer that uses water-based citrus cleaner, that would make things a whole lot easier.
EDIT: I also have a heavyweight tarp that I spread out in front of the table, lest any dirt and such spill over. It's an easy task to fold up the tarp and shake it off outside after the repair.
Last edited by Duragrouch; 10-02-20 at 02:16 PM.
Likes For Duragrouch:
10-03-20, 07:41 PM
#140
Junior Member
I had the same problem
Bought an old Raleigh Friday (531 full butted) , took it to the shop Saturday for 27 clinchers and had them grease the seatpost while I was there to prevent it from ever getting seized. When I got the bike back, I noticed this.
These crimps are both symmetrical, with a ridge running in the middle of two identical dents. I believe they're almost certainly caused by a repair stand clamping the butted seat tube too hard. I don't own a repair stand in my apartment and did nothing with the bike that would have involved any kind of force, other than a shakedown ride of a mile or so. The only work I did was move the seat down about a centimeter.
The shop is adamant that the frame was already damaged when the bike was brought in. I had photographic proof that the bike was not damaged as late as last night, but they told me that the bike could have been damaged between Friday night and Saturday morning (it was leaning against a wall in my living room).
Is there anything I can do here? And am I jumping to conclusions about this being the most likely cause of the crimping marks? I don't have like, a video of them actually putting the bike in the stand by the seat tube, so it's not like I can take this to court or anything, but would asking for a refund of labor costs and possibly some of the cost of frame repair be reasonable?
I'm mainly confused because this is a shop with a sterling reputation in Seattle, deals with used bikes a lot, and would usually know better than to clamp a butted steel frame by the seat tube.
These crimps are both symmetrical, with a ridge running in the middle of two identical dents. I believe they're almost certainly caused by a repair stand clamping the butted seat tube too hard. I don't own a repair stand in my apartment and did nothing with the bike that would have involved any kind of force, other than a shakedown ride of a mile or so. The only work I did was move the seat down about a centimeter.
The shop is adamant that the frame was already damaged when the bike was brought in. I had photographic proof that the bike was not damaged as late as last night, but they told me that the bike could have been damaged between Friday night and Saturday morning (it was leaning against a wall in my living room).
Is there anything I can do here? And am I jumping to conclusions about this being the most likely cause of the crimping marks? I don't have like, a video of them actually putting the bike in the stand by the seat tube, so it's not like I can take this to court or anything, but would asking for a refund of labor costs and possibly some of the cost of frame repair be reasonable?
I'm mainly confused because this is a shop with a sterling reputation in Seattle, deals with used bikes a lot, and would usually know better than to clamp a butted steel frame by the seat tube.
I had an identical problem years ago with a butted steel frame.
My damage looked just like the damage in your photo. No paint damage.
I was on great terms with the owner of the shop who damaged my seat tube.
I enjoyed going to his shop, had been there about 4 or 5 times previous.
We usually chatted and had some rapport. We were about the same age with similar backgrounds.
It was the shop owner himself who did the damage.
I had him do something to the bottom bracket or crank, it was so long ago I don't remember what.
I was standing right there when he did the work. He unclamped my bike from the stand, handed it to me
and I saw the damage right then and there.
He refused to acknowledge that he dented the tube, even though it was extermely obvious.
He said the damage must have already been there.
I was furious. He just could not bring himself to admit, even to himself apparently, that he did it.
He offered to pound something into the seat tube to fix it, but I was so pissed I would not let him touch
the bike again.
I never did fix the bike I had such a bad taste from the incident (and was maybe a little tired of the bike).
Likes For wafranklin:
