Brompton or Bike Friday?
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Brompton or Bike Friday?
I may have to replace my trusty Dahon Curve. It's spending too much time in the shop or out of commission lately. I love it, but the Curve doesn't age well. (Admittedly, I'm pretty rough on my bikes.) My work also just moved into a very hilly area, and the 3-speed isn't gonna cut it anymore. (My aching knees!)
I'd be using the bike primarily for bike/train commuting in hilly areas. The ability to use it for light touring would also be a plus. Keeping the Curve limping along is still on the table, but I'm looking at either a Bike Friday New World Tourist or a Brompton P 6-speed. I'd love to hear what converts of both model types think of these bikes for commuting and light touring.
I still need to test-ride a Bike Friday, but I rode a Brompton about year or two ago and loved it.
The Bike Friday looks like a winner, but I'd love to hear from people who use them heavily. Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this!
Let the games begin...
Edit: I'm keeping up a comparison grid of all three bikes, and may add more bikes as my research continues.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...uA&output=html
I'd be using the bike primarily for bike/train commuting in hilly areas. The ability to use it for light touring would also be a plus. Keeping the Curve limping along is still on the table, but I'm looking at either a Bike Friday New World Tourist or a Brompton P 6-speed. I'd love to hear what converts of both model types think of these bikes for commuting and light touring.
- As far as I'm concerned, steel is real. Period. (Yeah, I've drunk that kool-aid.)
- The ability to haul a lot of stuff. Panniers on the rear rack are a must, the front would also be nice. If I can keep using my Ortlieb panniers and handlebar bag, so much the better.
- Internal hubs vs derailleur drivetrains - I have a slight bias against internal hubs. When they work, they're smooth like butter, but when one goes bad you're SOL.
- I'm a heavy guy - 210 lbs. The BF is attractive, because they have a heavy rider upgrade. I think this may contribute to my Dahon's short life.
- I'd like to stay away from frame hinge joints - see above. It's just one more thing that can go wrong on you.
I still need to test-ride a Bike Friday, but I rode a Brompton about year or two ago and loved it.
The Bike Friday looks like a winner, but I'd love to hear from people who use them heavily. Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this!
Let the games begin...
Edit: I'm keeping up a comparison grid of all three bikes, and may add more bikes as my research continues.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...uA&output=html
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Last edited by neilfein; 12-14-09 at 03:07 PM.
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I'd be using the bike primarily for bike/train commuting in hilly areas.
Panniers on the rear rack are a must.
You need a different bike. A Tikit is somewhat closer: it won't take panniers on the back but at least would support your Ortliebs on the front, plus rear boxes, and certain rear bags (notably the Detours Teeco), and your handlebar bag. And it'd fold well enough to take on the train. Various Dahons will support panniers no problem, and fold well enough for the commute, but you've expressed non-interest in them.
I'm a heavy guy - 210 lbs.
Last edited by feijai; 12-14-09 at 03:54 AM.
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I don't think the unique selling point of the Brompton's compact fold is of any value for you. I personally believe the Tikit is a better fit for your needs. Let us know what is your final decision. Good Luck.
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As mentioned, it depends on the particulars of your train/bike commute. How small do you need the folded bike to be? And how convenient does the folding need to be? I have a Bike Friday (Pocket Rocket, but very similar to the NWT) and it's been fine for touring with all my camping gear in panniers and handlebar bag - your current Ortliebs should work great.
But it's not the handiest folder for quickly putting into a small luggage storage spot on some trains and buses. So it wouldn't be my choice among folders for a commute consisting of just a couple miles to the train and another mile or two at the other end. Either the BF Tikit or the Brompton would be more suited for that. My primary use is as a travel bike - i.e. pack it in a suitcase to use air/train transportation to some distant spot and then use the bike while in that area or on an extended tour. My BF also works well with our local commuter rail/subway (BART) system where non-folding bikes aren't allowed during commute times but there's no need for a folder to be exceptionally small.
But it's not the handiest folder for quickly putting into a small luggage storage spot on some trains and buses. So it wouldn't be my choice among folders for a commute consisting of just a couple miles to the train and another mile or two at the other end. Either the BF Tikit or the Brompton would be more suited for that. My primary use is as a travel bike - i.e. pack it in a suitcase to use air/train transportation to some distant spot and then use the bike while in that area or on an extended tour. My BF also works well with our local commuter rail/subway (BART) system where non-folding bikes aren't allowed during commute times but there's no need for a folder to be exceptionally small.
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I just purchased a Pocket Companion and what a nice bike for the money. At the place that I purchased the bike I noticed another folder that had a canvas handle where the water bottle cage is mounted and that what a great idea to quickly carry the bike if you dont have time to fold it right away.
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Another question is rolling while folded. The Curve rolls if you balance it on one wheel. The Brommie has the Curve beat in terms of rolling, assuming you get the rack with rollers on it. I'm not sure how good BFs roll when folded.
In terms of how convenient the folding needs to be, that's a question I'll have to answer by folding one. The Curve folds quickly, but not simply any more - it was easy to fold when I got it, not so much now. I'm planning a trip in late December to a BF dealer in Manhattan. I'll try folding it then and ride it on some hills.
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Maybe I'll start a see-if-I-can-salvage-the-Curve thread. I do have quite the sentimental attachment to the bike; it was my first folder, and that's always a special relationship.
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Last edited by neilfein; 12-13-09 at 09:57 PM.
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Bike Friday as it uses more standard parts and you can use rear panniers. I would not wait too much before buying as the 2010 Brompton are more expensive. I was about to buy one for a project, but I might have to wait now as I was going to discard a lot of the parts.
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I would personally recommend a BTO Tikit for your purposes. You could obtain a Tikit with a double or triple crank and a heavy rider upgrade that would meet the needs of both commuting and light touring admirably.
I don't believe i'd recommend a NWT for your purposes, owing to their larger folded size and clumsiness while folded, the Bike Friday pocket bikes like the NWT would be a pain for daily multi-modal commuting. Contrastingly, the Tikit is a bike with a nice ride, and very good folding design for your needs.
Regarding rolling while folded, the NWT will not. The Tikit on the other hand, is designed to roll perfectly on the front wheel, and there is a handle on the back of the seat mast that will let you easily roll the Tikit about while folded. The bike stays perfectly clipped together, and nothing needs to be readjusted at all upon unfolding.
Good luck on your search, and I hope that we can also help sort through the problems with your curve!
I don't believe i'd recommend a NWT for your purposes, owing to their larger folded size and clumsiness while folded, the Bike Friday pocket bikes like the NWT would be a pain for daily multi-modal commuting. Contrastingly, the Tikit is a bike with a nice ride, and very good folding design for your needs.
Regarding rolling while folded, the NWT will not. The Tikit on the other hand, is designed to roll perfectly on the front wheel, and there is a handle on the back of the seat mast that will let you easily roll the Tikit about while folded. The bike stays perfectly clipped together, and nothing needs to be readjusted at all upon unfolding.
Good luck on your search, and I hope that we can also help sort through the problems with your curve!
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I've been sticking with my Downtube Mini, but I too am more or less resolved to replacing it with either a Tikit or a Brompton when the time comes. I'll be following this thread with interest.
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I started this thread a while back just for your purposes.
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...rompton-debate
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...rompton-debate
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I started this thread a while back just for your purposes.
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...rompton-debate
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...rompton-debate
I think part of the question I have comes down to touring-vs-commuting, and how much of an overlap is there. After seeing a video of a guy using a Tikit like a shopping cart, I think I'll have to add the Tikit to my list.
The Bromptons definitely lose points considering that they have limited gearing options; hill climbing ability is very important to me and my poor knees. But their fold is amazing; the Tikit looks sloppy when folded.
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I just got off the phone with Bike Friday, and I found out that both the Tikit and the New World Tourist have potential show-stoppers: The Tikit is 16" wide while folded, the NWT 13" wide. My Curve is 12" wide, and barely fits through a train aisle when rolling it.
Speaking of rolling the Tikit rolls while folded, the NWT does not. BF is going to check to see if the design can be modified.
Speaking of rolling the Tikit rolls while folded, the NWT does not. BF is going to check to see if the design can be modified.
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I just got off the phone with Bike Friday, and I found out that both the Tikit and the New World Tourist have potential show-stoppers: The Tikit is 16" wide while folded, the NWT 13" wide. My Curve is 12" wide, and barely fits through a train aisle when rolling it.
Speaking of rolling the Tikit rolls while folded, the NWT does not. BF is going to check to see if the design can be modified.
Speaking of rolling the Tikit rolls while folded, the NWT does not. BF is going to check to see if the design can be modified.
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These must be some special kind of New Jersey trains. On Italian trains, anyway, I have had no problem getting a tikit through the aisles. And buses too. I'd be very surprised to find that a train aisle is barely 12": most people are twice that in the shoulders. Likewise commuter trains in DC, and also Amtrak. The Tikit *is* wide; but I'd be quite surprised if it were that much of an issue. At any rate, yes, the Brompton is very pretty in this regard. But there are tradeoffs, and ones that I think will be tough for you to swallow given your requirements.
If you're really worried, some of the width of a Tikit is due to its allowance of an ahead stem on the handlebars which basically pokes the handlebars out a good four inches. Perhaps you could reduce this by several inches by putting on an adjustable ahead stem like is done on various mountain bikes. This would let you rotate the handlebars up, saving a good three inches. The problem with such beasts is that, of course, they're not quick-release -- you'd need to carry an allen wrench with you. Or, of course, you could shorten the ahead stem (which somewhat defeats the "it's a real bike" bit).
Another possibility you should look into is the Mezzo (sold at BFold in Manhattan). It's not as fast folding as the tikit nor as customizable, and it's not as compact as the Brompton. But its sort of in between. It may not be able to take any panniers though. Talk to David Lam at BFold; he knows what he's talking about. He's got Mezzos, Tikits, and Bromptons for you to try. And maybe NWTs etc.
How about just a super short ahead stem?
If you're really worried, some of the width of a Tikit is due to its allowance of an ahead stem on the handlebars which basically pokes the handlebars out a good four inches. Perhaps you could reduce this by several inches by putting on an adjustable ahead stem like is done on various mountain bikes. This would let you rotate the handlebars up, saving a good three inches. The problem with such beasts is that, of course, they're not quick-release -- you'd need to carry an allen wrench with you. Or, of course, you could shorten the ahead stem (which somewhat defeats the "it's a real bike" bit).
Another possibility you should look into is the Mezzo (sold at BFold in Manhattan). It's not as fast folding as the tikit nor as customizable, and it's not as compact as the Brompton. But its sort of in between. It may not be able to take any panniers though. Talk to David Lam at BFold; he knows what he's talking about. He's got Mezzos, Tikits, and Bromptons for you to try. And maybe NWTs etc.
Last edited by feijai; 12-14-09 at 03:40 PM.
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-- you'd need to carry an allen wrench with you. Or, of course, you could shorten the ahead stem (which somewhat defeats the "it's a real bike" bit).
Another possibility you should look into is the Mezzo (sold at BFold in Manhattan). It's not as fast folding as the tikit nor as customizable, and it's not as compact as the Brompton. But its sort of in between. It may not be able to take any panniers though. Talk to David Lam at BFold; he knows what he's talking about. He's got Mezzos, Tikits, and Bromptons for you to try. And maybe NWTs etc.
How about just a super short ahead stem?
Another possibility you should look into is the Mezzo (sold at BFold in Manhattan). It's not as fast folding as the tikit nor as customizable, and it's not as compact as the Brompton. But its sort of in between. It may not be able to take any panniers though. Talk to David Lam at BFold; he knows what he's talking about. He's got Mezzos, Tikits, and Bromptons for you to try. And maybe NWTs etc.
How about just a super short ahead stem?
+1 on considering a mezzo also. Mezzo can take a shortened bull bar with out comprising the fold to much (see upgrading the mezzo threads)
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@bhkyte/feijai:
Mezzos are made from Aluminum, a shame. I'm sticking with a steel frame this time out.
@feijai:
I'll have to measure the aisles next time I take the train. But my Dahon barely clears the aisle.
Mezzos are made from Aluminum, a shame. I'm sticking with a steel frame this time out.
@feijai:
I'll have to measure the aisles next time I take the train. But my Dahon barely clears the aisle.
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Nice thread! Thanks for the link, that's a very useful thread.
I think part of the question I have comes down to touring-vs-commuting, and how much of an overlap is there. After seeing a video of a guy using a Tikit like a shopping cart, I think I'll have to add the Tikit to my list.
The Bromptons definitely lose points considering that they have limited gearing options; hill climbing ability is very important to me and my poor knees. But their fold is amazing; the Tikit looks sloppy when folded.
I think part of the question I have comes down to touring-vs-commuting, and how much of an overlap is there. After seeing a video of a guy using a Tikit like a shopping cart, I think I'll have to add the Tikit to my list.
The Bromptons definitely lose points considering that they have limited gearing options; hill climbing ability is very important to me and my poor knees. But their fold is amazing; the Tikit looks sloppy when folded.
I do think from what you said that the Tikit would fit in best with your needs so long as your expectations are realistic. When I was in San Francisco I saw someone bring their Tikit in the subway; you just have to be assertive and outgoing.
Other option is width is a key focus would be Swift xootr. It's not compact, but is narrow and a high performance bike. It is an ALu frame, but I thought some people here have special ordered steel frames?
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I think the Swift is out: it's very ungainly in folded form. So far as I know it hold together exactly, nor sit on the ground folded without taking up lots and lots of room. It seems to be a *big* folded package to take on a train.
There are, or were, steel versions of Swifts available. Jur, where are you?
I've been taking my Tikit on train trips in Italy lately, storing it in the luggage portion of the car. Rolling is important for one reason: to get the bike around in the station and platforms. On the train, I've not found rolling to be important at all. Arm strength isn't the issue -- you don't lift the handle a little bit -- instead you get it so the bike balances on the wheel. I can then control the bike with a single finger. But it requires finesse, especially if you have a front rack that you don't want scratched on the pavement.
There are, or were, steel versions of Swifts available. Jur, where are you?
I've been taking my Tikit on train trips in Italy lately, storing it in the luggage portion of the car. Rolling is important for one reason: to get the bike around in the station and platforms. On the train, I've not found rolling to be important at all. Arm strength isn't the issue -- you don't lift the handle a little bit -- instead you get it so the bike balances on the wheel. I can then control the bike with a single finger. But it requires finesse, especially if you have a front rack that you don't want scratched on the pavement.
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What about the BF Pocket Sport? I understand it's fairly similar to the NWT, but with 16" wheels.
The Tikit seems to work with front paniers, but panniers on the rear rack need to be small to fit.
The Tikit seems to work with front paniers, but panniers on the rear rack need to be small to fit.
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How about just a super short ahead stem?
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A shorter stem is actually a possibility; I have a fairly short reach.
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Tour Journals, Blog, ride pix
My bands:
Tour Journals, Blog, ride pix
My bands:
- Uke On! - ukulele duo - Videos
- Ukulele Abyss - ukulele cover videos - Videos
- Baroque and Hungry's (Celtic fusion) full-length studio album Mended.
- Artistic Differences - 8-track EP Dreams of Bile and Blood.