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If you were going to upgrade a 70's model Paramount what would you..

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If you were going to upgrade a 70's model Paramount what would you..

Old 10-11-11, 11:16 PM
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spotz
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If you were going to upgrade a 70's model Paramount what would you..

Choose in the way of modern components?

I know some would not do it but I am, and am down to shopping for replacement new or NOS 10 or 11 speed. The frame will be ready for parts soon after powder coating, decals, a few braze-on's and re-setting the rear to 130mm. This is a 25 inch 73 I have had forever and intend to keep forever and want to bring it up to spec. I have window shopped for groups/parts till I am dizzy so thought I would get some others perspective on how they would approach the same issue.

I suppose the most bang for the buck in terms of serviceability,durability,and value for money spent. the only thing not being replaced is the frame. Am not brand loyal but do prefer the more traditional look over the newer stuff with the smooth crank chain ring appearance say of the Dura-Ace or the carbon look for main components.

I figure the frame was/is free so am prepared to budget, say $1200.00-$1500.00 not counting wheels/hubs/tires(stout ones as I at about 220-230 lbs), another whole exercise in just how much I do not know, I am sure. Other than being compatible with what ever is chosen elsewhere in both function and aesthetics.

So how would you spend my money on my bike if it was your money on your bike??
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Old 10-12-11, 12:02 AM
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Most bang for the buck would be 2006 - 2009'ish alloy 10 speed Campagnolo Centaur.
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Old 10-12-11, 04:45 AM
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I realize you are asking about 10-11 speed, but over the winter I spent time cleaning or mounting two Shimano 105 8 speed groupsets. The first was from '93 and was nearly new (just a good deal of barn dirt from almost two decades of storage with no riding). The second was a nearly complete groupset from '96 and was listed as NOS on ebay.

Both have to be the smoothest riding, mechanically perfect, performing bike RD, FD, shifter, brake calipers I've ever used. I have a bike with 10 speed Centaur and I like this better. And they look good.

The '93 105.


The '96 105.

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Old 10-12-11, 05:09 AM
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+1 on older 8- and 9-speed stuff. The parts are cheap and it all works flawlessly.

On my TT bike (not C&V, sorry!) my 9-speed drivetrain cost about €20 and is perfect. Admittedly a couple of bits came off doner bikes but still, a lot less than $1200.



Take advantage of the ' upgradeitis' that afflicts so many road racers and stick on an older groupset. Take the $1000 +/- that you will save and put it towards the cost of a cycling tour in Tuscany.

How does that sound?

Best of luck whatever you decide.
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Old 10-12-11, 05:44 AM
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I got a complete, couple year old, Ultegra groupset for fairly cheap because the previous owner had to get the latest and greatest. I guess they changed the color or something..
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Old 10-12-11, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
Most bang for the buck would be 2006 - 2009'ish alloy 10 speed Campagnolo Centaur.
Or even any of the Veloce silver 10spd groups.
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Old 10-12-11, 06:04 AM
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I would shop for a complete bicycle with the components you want. It will probably cost about the same as the components alone. Upgrading a 1973 Paramount frame just doesn't make sense; you will end up with something that is neither a 1973 Paramount nor a modern frame. The argument "I'm not selling it, so it's value is unimportant" is beside the point.
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Old 10-12-11, 06:11 AM
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I'm going to respectfully disagree with the above praise for Shimano's 8/9sp stuff...I find the shifting chunky and the front trim to be problematic...and I've found that for DA and 105. I'm also going to respectfully disagree with RHM - if you were talking vintage parts and bikes, he'd be right - but not for modern stuff. There is still a price premium, at least in sellers minds, for it being somewhat new and they tend to want a decent % of their cash back. On the other hand - the parts sell cheap. Bikes with mid-range Campy are also not that common on CL.

I'll second BBM's suggestion for older centaur...or, if you can find it, 2010 11sp Athena.
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Old 10-12-11, 06:44 AM
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I would choose modern Campy. I'd use a different crank, though. I'm sure the modern ones are nice, but I don't care for the aesthetics on a vintage frame. I'd probably go with a 50.4 BCD crank and modern TA rings.
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Old 10-12-11, 07:25 AM
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Thanks guys for the input

I am sure the upgrade path I have chosen for this frame is not the wisest thing I could do with it, should just try to sell it and invest the money in a modern bike as suggested but I have other more modern bikes, not brand new 11 speed latest and greatest but new enough, a 105 carbon and a Ultegra aluminum and I like the way they perform compared to the old Paramount gear train, thus the upgrade thinking.

I just cannot deal with CL and Ebay these days so will shop for new or NOS unless one of youse guys has had a case of upgradeitis and are sitting on something that would fit the bill. Also not a case of throwing money at this thing because I have it to throw (old guy on a fixed income, no job, no prospects not looking )

Currently I keep coming back to Velo Mine considering their campy stuff as it appeals to my eye and the prices seem competitive if their is such a thing in the world of bicycle parts.

Again thanks for the input, keep it coming, have been putting this off for years so their is no rush just want to practice due diligence.

If this turns out as hoped for then it might be time to shop for a complete new bike

Tom Morgan
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Old 10-12-11, 07:42 AM
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'09 ten-speed Campy Centaur (on a '97 Pinarello):



'71 Campy Nuovo Record (on a '71 Paramount):



Just putting these pics up because I've got a '70's Paramount and I've got ten speed Campy. Maybe the images will help you with some ideas. FWIW, in my case, the Paramount and the ten speed Campy Centaur rarely come within twenty feet of each other.
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Old 10-12-11, 07:46 AM
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put some bar-end shifters on the paramount and leave it at that, like you said... you have two other new tech bikes, so why take the classic out of the vintage.
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Old 10-12-11, 08:50 AM
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the ten speed Campy Centaur rarely come within twenty feet of each other.
Not sure what that is supposed to mean but beautiful bikes, thanks
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Old 10-12-11, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by spotz View Post
Not sure what that is supposed to mean but beautiful bikes, thanks
It means literally what I said. In my case, those two bikes are stored about thirty feet apart, just by happenstance. If they were to come within twenty feet of each other, it would be rare. The "deeper" meaning, if there is one, is that, in my case, there will be no modern components installed on my Paramount. I hoped I was making it clear that this was MY situation, not yours. I posted the pics to perhaps allow you to imagine the ten speed Centaur parts on the Paramount. Just trying to help, I promise.
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Old 10-12-11, 09:15 AM
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With out a doubt, I will agree with the 10 speed Campy Centaur.

It looks GREAT and is a work horse. You can get it with all kinds of gear combos.

But best of all, IT'S CAMPY!

You can buy the small group fairly cheap;
http://www.velomine.com/index.php?ma...ath=86_162_258

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Old 10-12-11, 09:31 AM
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I have very little experience with Campagnolo (just a few rides on my Olmo with 8-speed Ergos).

What do you particularly like about the 10-speed Centaur, and where does it sit in the Campagnolo hierachy?

Thanks in advance
Simon
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Old 10-12-11, 09:58 AM
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I'd be reluctant to do anything until I knew the rear spacing. 120mm? Leave it alone.

Only if the frame has already been spaced to 126mm would I begin to consider modifications.

-Kurt
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Old 10-12-11, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
I'd be reluctant to do anything until I knew the rear spacing. 120mm? Leave it alone.

Only if the frame has already been spaced to 126mm would I begin to consider modifications.

-Kurt

He's having it cold set, so it won't be an issue.
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Old 10-12-11, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
He's having it cold set, so it won't be an issue.
Just read that. I have my reservations about going to 130mm from 120.

-Kurt
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Old 10-12-11, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Just read that. I have my reservations about going to 130mm from 120.

-Kurt
Then anything from the 70s or earlier is out. Obviously, a 70s Paramount started like with 120mm spacing. Are you suggesting there's a difference in going from 120 to 126 and then, later on, going to 130 versus spacing from 120 to 130 in one cold setting?
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Old 10-12-11, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
Then anything from the 70s or earlier is out. Obviously, a 70s Paramount started like with 120mm spacing.
Pretty much.

Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
Are you suggesting there's a difference in going from 120 to 126 and then, later on, going to 130 versus spacing from 120 to 130 in one cold setting?
Nope. I wouldn't spread any decent, appreciable frame from 120mm to 126 or 130mm.

-Kurt
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Old 10-12-11, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Barchettaman View Post
I have very little experience with Campagnolo (just a few rides on my Olmo with 8-speed Ergos).

What do you particularly like about the 10-speed Centaur, and where does it sit in the Campagnolo hierachy?

Thanks in advance
Simon
Centaur sat behind Chorus and Record in the lineup.

It is alloy silver that is aesthetically pleasing and well finished, easily adjusted, practically bomb-proof, runs forever, and works very, very well. It is less expensive than Chorus, but functionality is nearly identical.

With Chorus and Record shifters you go from Teflon friction washers and bearing surfaces to ball bearing mechanicals, so Chorus and Record are a tad bid smoother on the shifts. But it comes at some expense, so I consider the Centaur to be a better bang for the buck.
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Old 10-12-11, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Barchettaman View Post
I have very little experience with Campagnolo (just a few rides on my Olmo with 8-speed Ergos).

What do you particularly like about the 10-speed Centaur, and where does it sit in the Campagnolo hierachy?

Thanks in advance
Simon
Centaur has changed quite a bit both in design and where it lies in the hierarchy in recent years. In '07 and '08, it was redesigned using a shift system called "Escape," which some folks like, and others don't. The main criticism of it is that some of the design features that endear a lot of folks to Campy Ergo, such as the micro-clicks on the front shifter, weren't there. But again, some folks like the Escape features. In '09, Centaur and the rest of the groups got the re-designed hood shape, which again, has gotten mixed reactions. I like it, I hear others say they don't, for example. '09 Centaur didn't have the Escape shift design, either, it went back to the features of more traditional Ergo shifters. I think in '10, Centaur was pretty much left the same as '09 Centaur, but the paddle mechanism on the rear shifter was given a more distinct shifting feel, which is something some folks complained about in '09. I could be wrong, too; there may have been other changes to '10 Centaur, I don't know for sure. I know in '09, Centaur was a mid-level group, with Xenon, Mirage, and Veloce all below it in the hierarchy, and Chorus, Record, and Super Record above it. Now, in '11, Centaur is a lower group in the hierarchy, with only Veloce below it; but I thihk it's only because they dropped Xenon and Mirage, not because they lowered the quality of Centaur necessarily. Centaur and Veloce are the only two Campy groups that are currently ten speed; Athena, Chorus, Record, and Super Record are eleven speed.

One of the reasons Centaur has been popular for C and Vers, I think, is it has still been available with no carbon fiber bits, and its' a great bang-for-the-buck group to put on an older bike you want ride a lot. My experience with it has been that it's very durable and trouble free as well.
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Old 10-12-11, 11:06 AM
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I bought a Waterford and built it trying to keep a classic look with modern parts. At the time the original Sram Rival was out and I used it:



I also have a 1992 Paramount that I built up with 9sp DA as after that I think it looks to modern.
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Old 10-12-11, 11:44 AM
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I think the alloy campy sounds like a good option. I have 8sp Shimano 600 (early 90s) on my road bike and think it looks sufficiently slick, the one issue I have with it is the 130 BCD crankset. I would rather have a compact double to save my knees on the climbs. I would definitely suggest going to a bike shop and trying out any systems that you can and basing it on the feel of the group. I think the SRAM stuff may end up looking fine.
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