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Planning a city bike build

Old 02-14-12, 05:12 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
Good call on the Halo coating, syscrush. I'm considering building a wheelset with the Halo coated Dyads soon.
Thanks, I'm very excited about 'em. The guys in the bike shop have sold a set before and they were pretty stoked when I came in and ordered them. They said that they look really nice. On my motorcycles, I like to put a black retroreflective rim stripe on black rims, so when I saw the halo/reflective coating for the Deep V's, I knew I wanted that.

Those are nifty dropouts. But, despite their adjustability they seem to me to be very impractical for IGH use. You need to be able to slide the wheel back. You can't acheive proper chain tension unless you adjust both those dropouts everytime you remove and reinstall the wheel. Eff that noise.
First off, I don't take my rear wheel off very often. Secondly, why would I have to readjust everytime I re&re the rear wheel? I would think it would only be necessary when the chain is out of adjustment.

I applaud your ingenuity, but you have chosen a poor frame for the duty you describe.
Time will tell.

The X-RF5 can be spaced to 130 or 119 depending on the nuts you use (which are included with the hub).
The spec for the X-RF5(W) is 130 or 119, but FYI my non-(W) hub measures about 114-115.
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Old 02-14-12, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53 View Post
I just bought the drum RD5. It is 130mm. Haven't got a bike set up yet.
The problem that needs to be fixed is the flat part of the SA axel attachment. He needs to file the existing DO flat on the upper contact, which is questionably workable, or get new DOs custom machined.
That is concerning. Those DOs are scarce and pricey, and having custom ones machined would be even more pricey. I'll discuss it with the builder and report back.

Good luck with your build OP.
Thanks very much.
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Old 02-14-12, 05:16 PM
  #28  
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QUESTION: I just measured my seat tube, and it looks to be 27.2-27.3mm. Is that possible/plausible? I would really like a Miche Supertype seatpost, which is 27.2, but I didn't think it would fit one of these older frames.
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Old 02-14-12, 05:23 PM
  #29  
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I agree that it's the wrong kind of frame for this, but I do think the build will be really cool. I like deep Vs... very rugged.

As for fenders, you can do a custom fender install by chopping the fender at the bridge and using struts to connect them. Doesn't look the best, but doesn't look bad. I think raceblades suck... They keep the stripe off your back, but they do nothing for keeping your pants dry.
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Old 02-14-12, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Syscrush View Post
QUESTION: I just measured my seat tube, and it looks to be 27.2-27.3mm. Is that possible/plausible? I would really like a Miche Supertype seatpost, which is 27.2, but I didn't think it would fit one of these older frames.
Why wouldn't it fit? If that's what you measured, it should fit. Did you use a pair of calipers?
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Old 02-14-12, 06:40 PM
  #31  
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I totally hate those clip-on half fenders. I used them for over two years on commuters and finally made the switch to full fenders and have never been happier (with my fender situation). River city bikes in Portland makes this neat bracket that should facilitate mounting full-fenders on racy frames. http://rivercitybicycles.com/product...ackets-737.htm
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Old 02-14-12, 07:19 PM
  #32  
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And there are other methods for mounting full fenders on tight bicycles. I've read about many of them in the Mechanics section of bike forums.
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Old 02-14-12, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by you View Post
River city bikes in Portland makes this neat bracket that should facilitate mounting full-fenders on racy frames. http://rivercitybicycles.com/product...ackets-737.htm
Does the axle go in that slot?
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Old 02-14-12, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Syscrush View Post
Does the axle go in that slot?
No you use P-clamps to attach the fenders. The struts are to bypass the brake bridge. You have to saw your fender in half to use these.
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Old 02-14-12, 08:32 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Puget Pounder View Post
Why wouldn't it fit? If that's what you measured, it should fit. Did you use a pair of calipers?
I used a digital caliper. I just really thought that the older Italian frames had a different dimension for the seatpost. It seems like there are unexpected gotchas all over the place when it comes to sizes for this stuff, and I'm wondering if there's some kind of catch - maybe I'm missing something.
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Old 02-14-12, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Puget Pounder View Post
No you use P-clamps to attach the fenders. The struts are to bypass the brake bridge. You have to saw your fender in half to use these.
For any others having trouble figuring out how those brackets work from just the photo of the brackets themselves:

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Old 02-14-12, 09:49 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53 View Post
I just bought the drum RD5. It is 130mm. Haven't got a bike set up yet.
The problem that needs to be fixed is the flat part of the SA axel attachment. He needs to file the existing DO flat on the upper contact, which is questionably workable, or get new DOs custom machined.

Good luck with your build OP.
I'm puzzled by this. SA makes no turn washers for vertical dropouts.
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Old 02-14-12, 09:53 PM
  #38  
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I like where you're going with this build, but I certainly wouldn't describe it as a "city bike".
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Old 02-15-12, 07:25 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
SA makes no-turn washers for vertical dropouts.
Yep, Sturmey-Archer part number HMW534, "Lock Washer for Vertical Dropout".

About the XRF5(W): This new-ish (W) hub design uses a gear selector key like the older Sprint series of hubs, rather than the ball-locking selector scheme of more recent Summit series (despite what the erroneous product descriptions say on some web sites). Like the Alfine 11 IGH, the 5(W) is sensitive to cable adjustment and most have found it works more reliably with full-run cable housing and 'gentle' cable routing.
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Old 02-15-12, 07:53 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
I like where you're going with this build, but I certainly wouldn't describe it as a "city bike".
Fair enough. That's my intended usage, although it probably doesn't really fit the classical definition of the genre. Just like in the hot rod world, one person's grocery getter is a beat up old Civic, and another's is a '65 Nova with a blown 454.
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Old 02-15-12, 07:59 AM
  #41  
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The difference being that the hot rod can pick up groceries without too much inconvenience.

The better analogy is that your grocery getter is a formula one car with no trunk space.
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Old 02-15-12, 08:09 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
Those are nifty dropouts. But, despite their adjustability they seem to me to be very impractical for IGH use. You need to be able to slide the wheel back. You can't acheive proper chain tension unless you adjust both those dropouts everytime you remove and reinstall the wheel.
Quite a number of modern factory bike frames use vertical dropouts with IGHs, either with sliding (adjustable) dropouts or eccentric bottom brackets. I've never heard of anyone having to readjust their sliding dropouts or eccentric bottom bracket everytime they removed and reinstalled the rear wheel.

BTW, "proper chain tension"? It's an IGH, not a fixed gear.
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Old 02-15-12, 08:16 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
I'm puzzled by this. SA makes no turn washers for vertical dropouts.
Yes, they do. Got some right here in my hand.



Not that they're any more available than the Sturmey part, probably less so, but washers from a Sram iMotion 9 will fit as well.



In a pinch, Shimano washers can be made to fit with a bit of filing.
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Old 02-15-12, 08:34 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by tcs View Post
Quite a number of modern factory bike frames use vertical dropouts with IGHs, either with sliding (adjustable) dropouts or eccentric bottom brackets. I've never heard of anyone having to readjust their sliding dropouts or eccentric bottom bracket everytime they removed and reinstalled the rear wheel.

BTW, "proper chain tension"? It's an IGH, not a fixed gear.
Fair enough. I'm no IGH expert.

But, yes, there is a proper chain tension even for an IGH. With those dropouts adjusted and/or a half link, the OP can hopefully acheive proper chain tension.
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Old 02-15-12, 08:43 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
Those are nifty dropouts. But, despite their adjustability they seem to me to be very impractical for IGH use. You need to be able to slide the wheel back. You can't acheive proper chain tension unless you adjust both those dropouts everytime you remove and reinstall the wheel. Eff that noise.
Just ther opposite is true. With vertical dropouts, no adjustment of chain tension is needed when removing and installing the wheel.
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Old 02-15-12, 08:47 AM
  #46  
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Syscrush, Keep us updated on this build, I like it. I think when time and money allows a set of 1/4" steel or 3/8" aluminum horizontal dropouts can be manufactured with a little more adjustment range (perhaps including more tire and fender clearance?). It would also clean up the rear a bit without the RD hanger (which, IMHO, shouldn't be sawn off). The twist grip shifter might also give a leaner, cleaner visual.

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Old 02-15-12, 08:50 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
Just ther opposite is true. With vertical dropouts, no adjustment of chain tension is needed when removing and installing the wheel.
It's not needed if you have proper chain tension to begin with, no. The fact that you cannot adjust the chain tension is the disadvantage of vertical dropouts for use with single cog/single chainring drivetrains. As I said in post #44, hopefully good chain tension can be achieved with a half link and fine tuning of those dropouts.

There are lots of bikes out there running with slack chains and they're probably fine, but I wouldn't be satisfied with it.
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Old 02-15-12, 09:06 AM
  #48  
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I believe that those sliding dropouts will provide for pleanty of room for adjustment. I found when i built my "magic gear" single speed that it takes very little movement to tighten the chain.
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Old 02-15-12, 09:20 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
I believe that those sliding dropouts will provide for pleanty of room for adjustment. I found when i built my "magic gear" single speed that it takes very little movement to tighten the chain.
Thanks.

One link is 10mm, and the dropouts provide 8mm of adjustment. Adding or removing 1 link would make a ~5mm difference at the axle, so I am confident that it'll be fine.
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Old 02-15-12, 09:54 AM
  #50  
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A link is 12.7mm, not 10mm!
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