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ID-Lugged, Schwinn mtb frame

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ID-Lugged, Schwinn mtb frame

Old 12-23-12, 11:13 AM
  #26  
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So, its been about 4 years since my last update. The mystery Schwinn is still a mystery, but it is nearing completion.





I still strongly believe this is a pre-bankruptcy very early '80's Chicago-era Schwinn mountain bike that never appeared in the catalogues. I have still never seen anything like it. My evidence along with everything discussed above:

-70's era head badge (riveted, not screwed) and seat tube decal (red cross/gold background). I replaced the damaged original with a NOS decal.


-on the downtube I found shadows of the Schwinn feather/pinstripe script. I believe this was on some of the later '70's cruisers and Stingrays. I have red NOS replacements on the way.



Everything about this frame points to the original Schwinn company as opposed to the post-'84, post-bankruptcy/restructured version of the company us young folk are familiar with.

Any new ideas? Thanks again everyone.
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Old 12-23-12, 11:27 AM
  #27  
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A parts update:
-Nitto Albatross bars to replace the Nitto All Rounders (this frame wildly long)
-VO Fenders
-VO Portuer racks both front and rear
-VO 44t Chainguard (this needs some more work to fit properly)
-Schwalbe Marathon tires
-Pletscher double kick stand (these things are wonderful!)
-Brooks grips
-I had to modify the Dia-Compe brake levers to an expansion plug rather than a bolt. I fabricated the two expansion plates from a thick bronze bushing. The new internal set screw for the expansion plate is accessed by pulling apart the grips near the ends of the handle bars -- hence the need for the Brooks Grips.
-Shimano Nexus Inter 8 hub connected to a Dura Ace 8 speed index lever mounted on a Paul Thumbie via a Problem Sovers Travel Agent 2:1 linear brake cable pulley.

I'm on the look out for the perfect set of waxed canvas panniers. I also have a box of old dynamo lights and generators on the way wich includes 2 nice Union head lights, a bottom bracket generator and some bottle generators. I plan to do an LED conversion.

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Old 12-23-12, 11:33 AM
  #28  
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It's looking awesome! Great frame and a cool idea for a build. I love those cranks, I have the road version on my Gitane/Alan. A lot of the details seem very similar to my Sakai Landmaster, which has been identified as 1985. The faux-biplane fork crown is identical.

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Old 12-23-12, 11:35 AM
  #29  
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The porteur rack looks amazing on that bike!!
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Old 12-23-12, 12:06 PM
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Thanks.
That looks close, except mine has fastback seat stays. The downtube cable housing guides are in the right spot. How many rack eyelets do you have on the rear drops? Mine has one pair.

Originally Posted by devinfan View Post
It's looking awesome! Great frame and a cool idea for a build. I love those cranks, I have the road version on my Gitane/Alan. A lot of the details seem very similar to my Sakai Landmaster, which has been identified as 1985. The faux-biplane fork crown is identical.


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Old 12-23-12, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jjvw View Post
Thanks.
That looks close, except mine has fastback seat stays. The downtube cable housing guides are in the right spot. How many rack eyelets do you have on the rear drops? Mine has one pair.
It's got two on the back and two on the front. Maybe it just looks similar because they are both Japanese and from the same era? This one is Tange MTB tubing for the frame and Tange 2001 for the fork, both dropouts are Tange as well. Maybe they came from the same factory? Despite the little differences and your sexier seatstay treatment they seem to share something. Anyway I was actually considering a build like yours before I went in a different direction so now I get to see what it would have looked like!
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Old 12-23-12, 05:30 PM
  #32  
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THe only thing I've ever seen those script/feather decals on are early to mid 50's Schwinns. I have not noticed them on any other Schwinns? If the original decals and bike are late 70's to early eighties, then it had the peeling problems all of their bikes had back then. Maybe somebody threw the feather decals on after the fact?,,,,BD

My 84 Sierra had the same exact brake cable hanger on the back, and the same fork crown. I don't ever remember seeing a single lugged Schwinn mtb though? Definitely a keeper
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Old 12-23-12, 05:39 PM
  #33  
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One of the restoration decal dealers says they were used on the bicentennial Stingray's. I haven't looked up the 1976 Stingrays yet to see if this is accurate. If true, I could see the same script tossed into my frame 5 years later. That's all speculation and wishful thinking.
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Old 12-23-12, 07:53 PM
  #34  
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I believe what you have was only sold as a frameset. I seem to recall seeing it in one of the catalogs from the mid-80's but I can't find it online...

Back in 1985 I broke the frame on my 1982 Sidewinder and took it to the dealer for a warranty replacement. Three months later I got a call that my bike was ready and what I got back was a handful of my original parts on the exact frameset you have pictured. It was grey with gold decals on the downtube that resemble the ones you have pictured. I sold the bike in 1991 and have never seen another production bike like it. Because it is lugged, I doubt it's from Chicago and your S/N isn't from Giant. It's probably Japanese made, maybe from National...
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Old 12-23-12, 08:21 PM
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Ah-Ha! I know I saw it someplace... Had to dig into my old catalog library...

This is a page from the 1983 catalog. Schwinn offered framesets that were never issued as complete bikes. This one appears to be welded and has a BMX style fork but I'll bet that they offered lugged models with the Mirada style fork later on. Note the paint scheme and decals match what you have pictured...


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Old 12-23-12, 09:59 PM
  #36  
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Finally something that makes sense. Now I can say I have a 1983 Schwinn Mountain Bike Frame Set! 1983 was still the original Schwinn company, if I'm not mistaken. The one in the catalogue is definitely welded and has an ugly fork. My seat tube decal is a little different, but you can see the feather script on the down tube. Everything else seems to be the same. My frame still has the Made in Japan sticker near the BB. I wonder what kind of tubing this is. I wonder why no formal mention of lugs as an option.
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Old 12-23-12, 11:18 PM
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http://forums.mtbr.com/vintage-retro...set-69338.html

I forgot that I asked this question on mtbr several years ago. This thread addresses the welded mountain bike frame set from 1983, but no more information about the lugs and fork.

The frame set pictured on mtbr has different decals than both mine and the one in kingsting's catalogue page above. This could mean that there was quite a bit of variation in the particular frameset.

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Old 12-24-12, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jjvw View Post
http://forums.mtbr.com/vintage-retro...set-69338.html

I forgot that I asked this question on mtbr several years ago. This addresses the welded mountain bike frame set from 1983, but no more information about the lugs and fork.

The frame set pictured on mtbr has different decals than both mine and the one in kingsting's catalogue page above. This could mean that there was quite a bit of variation in the particular frameset.

Schwinn did a lot of goofy things in the post-Chicago/pre-bankruptcy era. Paint and decal variations were common, especially when dealing with a bike model that came out of two different plants. Sometimes, you weren't sure what you were getting until you opened the box.
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Old 12-24-12, 12:20 PM
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That makes my frame somewhat tragic. It represents a confused, failing company. Now that frame has become a neo-retro fake english 3-speed/utility bike modeled after a false nostalgia and a history that never really happened. I like that!

I'll post more pics after I figure out how to do an led conversion on my box full of old dynamo lights.
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Old 12-25-12, 12:54 PM
  #40  
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My box of light parts arrived. Included wss a bottom bracket generator. I just learned a couple weeks ago that these existed but are now difficult to find. It was a happy accident that my box of lights included one. No brand name, but this one is Japanese, looks to be from the 80's and is very nicely constructed. 6v/3w



After disassembling it to oil the generator wheel, I wired it up to an old Union tail light and it seems to work perfectly. The next step is to fabricate a replacement for the missing bracket rather than the fender washer I am using right now.

I read that some types of these BB generators had the option for a remote lever actuator on the frame. Since this bike has a downtube cable stop not is use, I intend to build my own remote lever clamped onto the top tube, assuming I can figure out a workable cable route down to the generator.

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Old 12-25-12, 05:00 PM
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Hey there,

Could you provide some more info on the conception and execution of your thumbie/travel agent/inter-8 shifting set-up? How is it holding up? I've been experiencing some slippage with my nexus 8 hub think it may just be part of the system but I really dislike the twist shifter it comes with and would be stoked to free up some space on the bar.
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Old 12-25-12, 10:27 PM
  #42  
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I'll preface this by saying I have never used a correctly setup Nexus Inter 8, so I do not know how tight or sloppy the official trigger or twist shifters are. My only criticism of the correct shifters is that they both look stupid, though I trust they function perfectly fine and likely better that what I have cobbled together.

The Inter 8 hub needs 5mm of cable movement to shift gears. A Shimano 8 speed index lever produces 2.5mm of cable movement with each click. To use the Inter 8 hub with a Shimano 8 speed index lever one must find a way to double the cable movement of the lever. That is what the addition of the Travel Agent does, by means of a 2 level pulley with in a 2:1 ratio.

It works. However, when I shift I have to make sure I let up on the pedals in order to let the gears fall into place before pedaling again. This should already be common practice for shifting anything, but slipping out of gear on a Nexus hub is much scarier sounding than on a normal derailer system. Adjusting the hub might be a little trickier because of the added pulley and the added slack it adds to the system. This seems to have diminished over time for 2 possible reasons. One, the hub has worn in and is now more forgiving of small misalignments. Two, the kink in the cable as it passes through the Travel Agent has tightened up which has reduced the springiness in the cable making the shifts more precise. Still, it takes a little bit of riding and adjusting after removing the rear wheel to get everything lined up again. It is also important to make sure the Travel Agent is tightly mounted to the frame. If it moves too much, it can mess up the cable tension. Mine is zip tied to the chain stay, though I would like to make a stainless steel band clamp for it someday. Someday.

The Paul Thumbie is simply a matter of aesthetics and preference. The 8 speed lever can be attached wherever or however you want - down tube, top tube, stem...anywhere you have a shifter mount. Some out there have even used a friction lever which doesn't require a Travel Agent, but none woud say that is a good way to go. I chose to do the modification simply because I didn't like to look of either of the correct shifters Shimano offers and aesthetics plays a significant part of this build.

I will post images of the hub and shifter system soon.

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Old 12-26-12, 02:00 AM
  #43  
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Cool frame and interesting story.
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Old 12-26-12, 11:39 AM
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How did you figure out the necessary cable pull for the hub and the how much cable the shifter pulls? Would I find that info in the tech documents?
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Old 12-26-12, 01:52 PM
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The cable pull measurements and parts recommendations came from others on the forum. I seem to recall seeing something from Shimano about the Nexus needing 5mm of pull, but I couldn't begin to tell you where to find it. Regardless, the amount of cable a given index shifter pulls its cable is easily measured just by shifting and measuring the distance traveled. The Nexus shifter(s) should generate 5mm of travel vs 2.5mm from the index lever. I have not bothered to verify this.

pictures as promised:

DuraAce 8 speed index lever attached to a Paul Thumbie on handlebars


Cable runs from shifter to the downtube cable stop and through the bottom bracket cable guide


View of the cable passing through the BB cable guide.


exiting the BB cable guide, the cable is routed through a short piece of housing before entering the Travel Agent. The tension in the system holds this housing in place against the BB cable guide.


The cable makes its loop d'loop through the Travel Agent and passes through another short length of housing before ending at the hub.


The specific cable routing and location of the Travel Agent will vary depending on the fame. It is also very important that the cable enter the Travel Agent on the small pulley and exit from the large on its way to the hub. Otherwise, the cable pull would be reduced to 1.25mm.

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Old 12-31-12, 10:09 AM
  #46  
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The lever actuated bottom bracket generator is complete.

I took a lever from this Schwinn Varsity stem shifter:


A pair of side plates and cable stop from these Simplex stem shifters:


Added some Shimano shims and spacers:


After some drilling and filing, attached everything to a Simplex single lever clamp:


and ended up with this abonination of a lever assembly:


A cable runs from the top tube to the remaining downtube stop, continues to the the BB guide before ending at a clamp on the swing arm of the generator:


Pull the lever back...


...to disengage the generator:


In reality, only one set of levers and plates needed to be cannibalized. Because this is a Schwinn and I liked the looks of the Varsity levers, I wanted to find a way to incorporate them into the build. I wish I could switch the DuraAce lever for a Varsity, but that is well beyond my abilities to machine things with a file, drill and vise. It least that part is Shimano controlling Shimano - if things like that matter. :-)

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Old 12-31-12, 10:23 AM
  #47  
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With the generator complete, I added two Union headlights to the front rack and a single taillight to the rear. This is the first time I have wired a generator light system, so hopefully it will stand up to real world use.

It pays to know how to fix things. These lights and generator came in $45 box of parts from eBay. The lights needed to be rewired and their internal mounting brackets needed new rivets. The stiff generator needed to be taken apart, oiled and put back together. After that, everything worked the way it is supposed to and none of it rattles.

(Also note the NOS Schwinn feather decals on the downtube. These likely would have been white originally, but I preferred red.)




Replacement LED lights and a voltage regulator from Nicelight are on the way for all three lights. If the claims are true, the new bulbs will drop right in and work with with the generator.

I have my eye on a French fender mounted taillight rather than the side mounted Union. This will fit better once the panniers get added.

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Old 12-31-12, 01:02 PM
  #48  
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Slick shiz. Nice work.
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Old 12-31-12, 10:17 PM
  #49  
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The lugs on that frame look look a lot like a Schwinn High Plains frame we have at the Newark Bike Project.
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Old 12-31-12, 11:39 PM
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How do the decals, downtube cable guides and the headbadge compare? Does it use a 21.1mm BMX stem rather than a standard 22mm? Japanese or Taiwanese made? All of these details separate mine from the '84 and after mountain bikes, including the High Plains. However, several of these later bikes look very similar. My thought is that those frames might have been modeled after the one I have (specifically the bare frame/fork offered in 1983 with all its apparent variations) - though I don't pretend to have a prototype.
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