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The Helmet Thread 2

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Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.
View Poll Results: What Are Your Helmet Wearing Habits?
I've never worn a bike helmet
52
10.40%
I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped
24
4.80%
I've always worn a helmet
208
41.60%
I didn't wear a helmet, but now do
126
25.20%
I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions
90
18.00%
Voters: 500. You may not vote on this poll

The Helmet Thread 2

Old 02-14-19, 12:54 PM
  #2826  
avole
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Using similar emotion based "logic", safety nannys should proselytize at the public to not ride in motor vehicles or ride bicycles in order to reduce all types of injuries, not just head injuries, from riding and driving.
No, that's definitely not emotion-based logic, in fact it isn't logic at all. But, since the second part of your sentence is predicated on the first, logic says that that, too, is invalid. Kinder scholars than most would say it is a non sequitur: My Maths teacher, a down-to-earth Glaswegian would use a simple eight-letter word preceded by "what a load of old".
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Old 02-14-19, 01:42 PM
  #2827  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
Looking at ER data, the surprising answer is that even with all of the automobile safety features, the chances of an intracranial injury is about the same whether you're in the vehicle or on the bike. From a per-accident basis. By "about the same" I mean within an order of magnitude.

My own hunch is that I'm more likely to get hit by a car when I'm driving than when I'm riding. To my knowledge the risk of a serious head injury is approximately the same. So common sense tells me that I'd rather wear a helmet driving than riding.
What kind of helmet do you wear for driving?
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Old 02-14-19, 02:21 PM
  #2828  
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Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
What kind of helmet do you wear for driving?
Safety nannys and helmet scholars might choose bicycle helmets and be comforted by the idea that they are getting the same "protection" as offered by a bicycle helmet when worn while bicycle riding.
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Old 02-14-19, 04:17 PM
  #2829  
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Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
What kind of helmet do you wear for driving?
I don't wear a helmet when driving - that would be silly because the risk is so slight.
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Old 02-15-19, 09:39 AM
  #2830  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
I don't wear a helmet when driving - that would be silly because the risk is so slight.
wphamilton, you can't have it both. ways. A couple of posts earlier you said, and I quote "My own hunch is that I'm more likely to get hit by a car when I'm driving than when I'm riding. To my knowledge the risk of a serious head injury is approximately the same. So common sense tells me that I'd rather wear a helmet driving than riding." which directly contradicts the point you made later.

I also don't understand why you think it is better not to wear a helmet when cycling but a better idea in a car when the odds, according to you, are the same. Any chance of producing all the evidence and statistics to support one of what is at present your contradictory arguments? You'd also better state whether the vehicle contained what is now the standard safety items, a seat belt, now compulsory in so many places, and an airbag.
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Old 02-15-19, 09:56 AM
  #2831  
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Of course he can have it both ways.

Care to guess who wears a seatbelt when driving - which would be silly because the risk is so slight?

-mr. bill
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Old 02-15-19, 05:29 PM
  #2832  
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Erm I agree with helmets and I come from U.K. where itís not compulsory and am also half Dutch.

These are my experiences
1. When I was a child my brakes snapped and ended up going overhandlebars I got a graze on my knee which has faded now and a graze on my face as I scrapped my face I still have this scar.
2. 2 years ago I was going downhill near my face for some reason
my brakes didnít work on time I ended up skidding into a bush and then fell off my helmet visor
snapped off and got stuck in between my spokes and handlebars got messed up. I noticed there was blood coming from somewhere as there
was a stain on the visor and drips on the floor. No one was around. I was a bit shaky and headache.
But I ended up taking my phone out and checking through camera turns out I just cut my lip. So I just had a swollen lip and cut for a week and a few bruises.
3. I skidded twice once into curb and on wet mud as I pressed the
brake so lost traction.
4. Itís the law for motorbike and moped riders to wear
helmets so why not cyclists? After all a motorbike is basically a bike with a engine and both go on road

Those that donít agree
with helmets.
why Do you see horse riders always wear helmets. Same with the local PCSOís and police on bicycles. They wear helmets.
if helmets had no purose
they would
of not been invented. As from my experience if I hadnít been wearing a helmet in above situations I would of ended up worse!
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Old 02-15-19, 09:29 PM
  #2833  
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Yes, that's why I wear a helmet, in case someone runs into the curb...
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Old 02-15-19, 09:57 PM
  #2834  
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Is it that hard to follow: if "common sense" tells me that a helmet may be needed more for driving than cycling, and yet I don't wear one driving, it follows that I want to wear one cycling even less? That the slight risk is even slighter, do I have to spell everything out, or is the reasoning just that hard to grasp?

Last edited by wphamilton; 02-15-19 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 02-16-19, 01:08 PM
  #2835  
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Sorry, wph, always thought you and logic were at loggerheads, I mean you don't use it often. Also, it doesn't follow, unless your bike is equipped with seatbelts, airbags and other current safety devices. To labour the point, a bike has little If any protection against the results of an accident. Surely, given that scenario, if you do have an accident, you probably will want a helmet, despite the fact you think the odds are minimal. Your common sense should tell you that.

To advise against a helmet is simply stupid. They should be compulsory, even for the luddites amongst us.
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Old 02-16-19, 04:44 PM
  #2836  
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Buying a helmet ultimately comes down to reviews and trust, cuz I won't even be able to tell if a helmet is actually good in itself, I think
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Old 02-18-19, 10:22 AM
  #2837  
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Originally Posted by avole View Post
Sorry, wph, always thought you and logic were at loggerheads, I mean you don't use it often. Also, it doesn't follow, unless your bike is equipped with seatbelts, airbags and other current safety devices. To labour the point, a bike has little If any protection against the results of an accident. Surely, given that scenario, if you do have an accident, you probably will want a helmet, despite the fact you think the odds are minimal. Your common sense should tell you that.

To advise against a helmet is simply stupid. They should be compulsory, even for the luddites amongst us.
Unhealthy food should be banned by government as well. It kills far more people. Are you aware of how many have died at the hands of Twinkies, HoHos or Zebra Cakes? To argue against that fact is simply stupid. We need the government to protect us.
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Old 02-18-19, 11:03 AM
  #2838  
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Originally Posted by 86az135i View Post
Unhealthy food should be banned by government as well. It kills far more people. Are you aware of how many have died at the hands of Twinkies, HoHos or Zebra Cakes? To argue against that fact is simply stupid. We need the government to protect us.
No idea what you are talking about, those are food substitutes available in the US? Yes, if they are poisoning people, you certainly should.
What that has to do with helmets I have no idea. You can clear up one thing, though: is the wearing of seatbelts compulsory in your country? I mean, what an infringement on your personal liberty !!
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Old 02-18-19, 11:24 AM
  #2839  
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Originally Posted by avole View Post
No idea what you are talking about, those are food substitutes available in the US? Yes, if they are poisoning people, you certainly should.
What that has to do with helmets I have no idea. You can clear up one thing, though: is the wearing of seatbelts compulsory in your country? I mean, what an infringement on your personal liberty !!
They are snack foods popular in the US. The only poison is high amounts of sugar. But it's the same logic you are using. That personal safety must be regulated

Yes unfortunately seat belts are regulated in most states in the US. They are an infringement. Luckily I live in a state where an officer cannot pull you over and ticket you for not having a seat belt on, unless they are already pulling you over for a different citation. So I can choose to not wear a seat belt in my state and be legal.

Helmets should not be mandatory, or as in Europe 'compulsory' just because they potentially protect people. If that's the case where should you stop at personal safety? There is no good argument that personal safety should be enforced and regulated. Public safety, or safety those not to the age of consent or adulthood, I can agree with.
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Old 02-18-19, 12:03 PM
  #2840  
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I'm appalled by your answer. I suspect by far the majority other readers feel exactly the same. Not worth bothering further.
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Old 02-18-19, 12:32 PM
  #2841  
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Originally Posted by 86az135i View Post
Helmets should not be mandatory, or as in Europe 'compulsory' just because they potentially protect people.
Relax, bicycle helmets are not mandatory/compulsory in Europe; though a few places might have some sort of requirement for children. Few places in the U.S. have such regulations for adults.
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Old 02-18-19, 01:04 PM
  #2842  
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The eu consists currently of 28 countries.

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Relax, bicycle helmets are not mandatory/compulsory in Europe; though a few places might have some sort of requirement for children. Few places in the U.S. have such regulations for adults.
Plus 5 or so. Europe refers to a collection of independent countries. Are you 100 % sure that bicycle helmets are not mandatory/compulsory i all those countries and municipalities?

Always beware before making generalisations like that, unless you have checked every one. To help you, see this Bicycle_helmet_laws_by_country#Legislation_by_country Europe , and this: helmet laws by state in the USA The latter surprised me, didn't know legislation was so widespread.
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Old 02-18-19, 01:17 PM
  #2843  
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Originally Posted by avole View Post
Plus 5 or so. Europe refers to a collection of independent countries. Are you 100 % sure that bicycle helmets are not mandatory/compulsory i all those countries and municipalities?

Always beware before making generalisations like that, unless you have checked every one. To help you, see this Bicycle_helmet_laws_by_country#Legislation_by_country Europe , and this: helmet laws by state in the USA The latter surprised me, didn't know legislation was so widespread.
As I posted, no U.S. state requires adults to wear bicycle helmets. I stand corrected about Europe, a few small Eastern European countries and outlier Spain have safety nanny restrictions in place for adult bicyclists. Charming!
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Old 02-18-19, 01:33 PM
  #2844  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
As I posted, no U.S. state requires adults to wear bicycle helmets. I stand corrected about Europe, a few small Eastern European countries and outlier Spain have safety nanny restrictions in place for adult bicyclists. Charming!
The article does say that local laws exist in the US, did you check these? They're the ones coloured orange. As to your other rash comment, you should have said "I stand corrected" and left it like that. As it is, you've alienated one of the largest countries in Europe, plus used Cold War use to insult the others. Well done.

Also good to see you ignored the stats that come from your own country re fatalities. Get back to me in 15 years, when helmets are compulsory in the majority of countries on the planet, as I'm sure you are aware they will be whether you like it or not.

Last edited by avole; 02-18-19 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 02-18-19, 02:01 PM
  #2845  
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I-Like-To-Light’s christmas tree is verbotten in Germany. Those... ...nannys!

In Seattle, adults have to wear a helmet, because law.

In New York City, adults get helment tickets whenever one of us is killed, and on the first nice spring days, and other days, because NYPD.

-mr. bill
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Old 02-18-19, 03:13 PM
  #2846  
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Originally Posted by avole View Post
I'm appalled by your answer. I suspect by far the majority other readers feel exactly the same. Not worth bothering further.
I don't know why you'd be appalled that I expect and want freedom of choice when it comes to my body. I want others to have that choice as well. I'm appalled that there are people such as yourself who want to force people to do things because they think they are right and know what's best.

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Relax, bicycle helmets are not mandatory/compulsory in Europe; though a few places might have some sort of requirement for children. Few places in the U.S. have such regulations for adults.
I meant the term 'compulsory', not that all of Europe mandates it. Most people would not use that term in the US and just say mandatory.
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Old 02-18-19, 07:11 PM
  #2847  
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Originally Posted by 86az135i View Post
I meant the term 'compulsory', not that all of Europe mandates it. Most people would not use that term in the US and just say mandatory.
What is the difference?
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Old 02-18-19, 07:57 PM
  #2848  
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Did you know the people in Washington State who are required to wear helmets exceeds the population of Iowa?

Did you know the people on US military bases (service personnel, their dependents, contractors, retirees etc) who are required to wear bicycle helmets exceeds the population of Iowa?

Those... ...nannys.

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 02-20-19 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 02-19-19, 03:35 AM
  #2849  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Did you know the people in Washington State who are required to wear helmets exceeds the popultation of Iowa?

Did you know the people on US military bases (service personnel, their dependents, contractors, retirees etc) who are required to wear bicycle helmets exceeds the population of Iowa?

Those... ...nannys.

-mr. bill
Few, if any other U.S cities have decided to emulate Seattle's helmet nannying laws for adult cyclists; note that Seattle is still NOT Washington State.

I am well aware of military organizations' bureaucrats (i.e. nannys) writing arbitrary regulations because they think they have a "good idea", and they can get away with it, affecting personnel to include the length of their head and facial hair, sexual practices, location of tattoos, mandatory "training" on social issues, mandatory requirement for Anthrax inoculations and ingestion of questionable prophylactic drugs despite no evidence of any credible Anthrax threat, etc.

Writing and enforcing an arbitrary Regulation making bicycle helmet wear mandatory for adults, without any credible evidence of solving a problem or improving health or safety of affected personnel, is consistent with that scheme of personnel control.

Are the personal restrictions and regulations of DOD what you would like to be the standard for Massachusetts or anywhere else in the U.S.? If not, what the heck is your point besides hectoring other posters?

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Old 02-19-19, 03:53 AM
  #2850  
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Originally Posted by avole View Post
How do you feel about gun laws in your state, I-Like_To_Bike ? Do you think that banning guns would affect the figures of people entering hospital after accidental, or otherwise, wounds?
Take your Political rants/badgering to the appropriate list; this is a thread about bicycle helmets.
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