Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

That's it. I'm moving to Amsterdam!

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

That's it. I'm moving to Amsterdam!

Old 02-19-19, 07:20 PM
  #26  
Rowan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,750
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1434 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by Wileyone View Post
"Expressed" your English??
Putting aside the slight error there, what is the answer to my question?
Rowan is offline  
Old 02-19-19, 07:39 PM
  #27  
Rowan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,750
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1434 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by Gyro View Post
Sorry for the typo km/h

Kilometers per Hour

that better? Or do you need more?
I've ridden more than once or twice in Amsterdam, and the km/h speed you nominated is almost unknown, except for serious road riders outside the city who aren't being treated badly by drivers.

The types of bikes most obvious then for use in the city were heavy European types, or with strong linkage to mountain bikes. The high density of riders on (very few) roads and cycle pathways means quite a slow avenue.

For me, it was almost walking pace to get from the information centre to an exit from the city. The only speed about 20kkm/h for me as a fully loaded touring rider was from the ferry into the city on new path that was very similar to the ones shown in the thread's first post... with very few users.

Yes, it was tourism times, but again through observation, there were a bunch of people whose only interest seemed to be in how they could, and how much drugs, they could source. Oh, and of course, grabbing a view of the prostitution part of the city, that is promoted pretty quite heavily.

My riding in other parts of the country was much better, and generally much friendlier.
Rowan is offline  
Old 02-19-19, 07:59 PM
  #28  
Doug64
Senior Member
 
Doug64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,525
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 785 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 40 Times in 25 Posts
Originally Posted by drlogik View Post
Ah yes, the pasture is always greener on the other side of the fence...until you realize you're looking through green glasses. I've been to Amsterdam, have no desire to go back. Give me a ticket to Berlin any day!
I agree. I've been their twice, and if my daughter did not want to see it on our tour last summer, once would have been enough. It is not a fun place to ride. There are much nicer places in the Netherlands to ride.

Amsterdam the day after the annual Gay Pride Festival. This woman on a rental bike was not too sure she even wanted to come up the hill.To be fair work crews were already cleaning up early Sunday morning.

Last edited by Doug64; 02-19-19 at 11:58 PM.
Doug64 is offline  
Old 02-20-19, 07:55 AM
  #29  
thumpism 
Bikes are okay, I guess.
 
thumpism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 4,789

Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Bridgestone RB-T, Trek 510 city build, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1286 Post(s)
Liked 70 Times in 55 Posts
Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
Maybe if you could find a decent way to express your English, we could understand exactly what you mean by kpm.
Kilogram force meter (Kilopondmeter), but there's no need to be snarky about it.
thumpism is offline  
Old 02-20-19, 08:58 AM
  #30  
ollo_ollo
Senior Member
 
ollo_ollo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Near Sublimity Orygun
Posts: 4,822

Bikes: Still have a few left!

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 318 Post(s)
Liked 14 Times in 11 Posts
One reason for all those cyclists is the personal income tax rate: It varies, but currently 52%, avg 1995=2018 was 54% (high 60%/low 52%). Anybody know if they also have a VAT, Property Tax, Capital Gain Tax, etc.? Don
ollo_ollo is offline  
Old 02-20-19, 12:32 PM
  #31  
acidfast7
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: England / CPH
Posts: 8,563

Bikes: 2010 Cube Acid / 2013 Mango FGSS

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1053 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 24 Posts
Out of everywhere in Western Europe to live, AMS would be one of the last choices I would make due to the tourism blight. Even CPH is getting really bad as well
acidfast7 is offline  
Old 02-20-19, 12:34 PM
  #32  
Stadjer
Senior Member
 
Stadjer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Groningen
Posts: 1,133

Bikes: Gazelle rod brakes, Batavus compact, Peugeot hybrid

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2344 Post(s)
Liked 45 Times in 34 Posts
Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
My experience is when you have something really good...eventually it will be ruined by outside people finding out and moving in.
That's a general problem with tourism, lots of people looking for something they're destroying in the process, but Amsterdam can absord quite a lot and did so happily for many years. But it had right wing council combined with a right wing government that decided to a general sell out. With Schiphol as one of the big internationals hubs, the fall in ticket prices and airbnb it has really gotten out of hand in only a few years. The well beeing of the citizens was sold on the cheap, that does not only mean people who come for a day or two to take a few selfies and move on to the next selfie background somewhere in the world, but also English stag parties and groups in a simular mood who fly over the Channel for 30 euro's and will spend the rest of their money on beer and drugs while harassing the locals, including the hookers. It's not just overtourism, with the kind of tourists it attracts it's little money for lots of nuisance.

Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
The bike path situation, while looking grand, can result in serious downgrading of level quality. And if you want to ride on the road with a bike path running parallel to it, be prepared for really aggressive driving skills and attitudes towards someone not wanted on roads. The density of bike usage is so bad in some parts that, as some of the pictures illustrate, it is almost impossible to get anywhere with any level of efficiency. And the bike parking becomes intimidating on footpaths for ordinary pedestrians.
Intimidating to foreigners maybe. It's actually very efficient, you can get about anywhere in less than half an hour and there is an awful lot to go to. But it there's a bike lane the little space there's left for cars is for cars. You're not allowed to ride there. If bicycle tourists of all people start misbehaving too.....

Originally Posted by ollo_ollo View Post
One reason for all those cyclists is the personal income tax rate: It varies, but currently 52%, avg 1995=2018 was 54% (high 60%/low 52%). Anybody know if they also have a VAT, Property Tax, Capital Gain Tax, etc.? Don
No, if everybody who could easily afford a car would drive one instead of a bike the tourism problem would be solved because no one wants to visit the biggest traffic jam in the world. If you own a car and have a parking permit you use it to get out of the city, not to drive within the city. It's slower and it's no fun driving. Taxes are high but no one actually pays the 52%, it's part of a taxation with lower percentages and tax breaks, and you get quite a lot in return. The average/median Dutch probably has quite a bit more to spend after taxes and bills than the average American.
Stadjer is offline  
Old 02-20-19, 01:53 PM
  #33  
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 41,396

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6917 Post(s)
Liked 244 Times in 202 Posts
Amsterdam is so 14th century

As I recall on reclaimed Polder land they laid out the bike paths straight and the street side anything but that,

, so advantage to get on your bike out the back gate than the car in the Cul de Sac , on the street..




...

Last edited by fietsbob; 02-20-19 at 01:58 PM.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 02-20-19, 03:01 PM
  #34  
avole
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: France
Posts: 1,031

Bikes: Brompton, Time, Bianchi, Jan Janssen, Peugeot

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 598 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Both the Finns and the Dutch are some of the nicest, and most level headed, people on the planet. Their roads and bicycle systems are both excellent, and both have survived and conquered, if you like, deeply unfriendly environments.

The best cycleway award belongs to Bangkok Suvarnabhumi airport, though. Nothing can quite touch the magic, if not fear, of an A380 landing what seems to be only a metre above your head.
avole is offline  
Old 02-20-19, 03:02 PM
  #35  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 27,855

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 88 Posts
Originally Posted by Stadjer View Post
Intimidating to foreigners maybe. It's actually very efficient, you can get about anywhere in less than half an hour and there is an awful lot to go to. But it there's a bike lane the little space there's left for cars is for cars. You're not allowed to ride there. If bicycle tourists of all people start misbehaving too.....
AMS and The Netherlands might also be disappointing for foreign tourists who are self described "serious road riders" and expect the locals to recognize their personal need for speed, no matter where they are.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 02-20-19, 03:28 PM
  #36  
TiHabanero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,555
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 809 Post(s)
Liked 94 Times in 63 Posts
Every location has its plus and minus. I like where I live other than the snowy and cold winters. The farm land is a joy to ride. A farmer at heart, I really enjoy it. Sure, roads are straight, but really the who cares? No traffic for miles and miles, cleaner air, and natural sounds make it the right place for me.
TiHabanero is offline  
Old 02-20-19, 07:26 PM
  #37  
124Spider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA
Posts: 307

Bikes: 2016 Cervelo R3 2018 Rodriguez Tandem

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Being half-Dutch, I have a huge soft spot in my heart for anything Dutch. It is an attractive society, and their cycling addiction is real.

But, before you lose your head, be aware that the weather is just gruesome much of the year-cold, dark and wet.
124Spider is offline  
Old 02-21-19, 02:59 AM
  #38  
Stadjer
Senior Member
 
Stadjer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Groningen
Posts: 1,133

Bikes: Gazelle rod brakes, Batavus compact, Peugeot hybrid

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2344 Post(s)
Liked 45 Times in 34 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
AMS and The Netherlands might also be disappointing for foreign tourists who are self described "serious road riders" and expect the locals to recognize their personal need for speed, no matter where they are.
It's a transportation infrastructure, not sports infrastructure. Just like the German Autobahn isn't made to have a race driver experience but to get efficiently around, and efficiency isn't a strictly individual matter. There are tensions between Dutch drivers and cyclists on one side and Dutch road riders too. The bike lane isn't optional, it's not like the Dutch government spend lots of money on bike lanes to give cyclist a choice which road surface they like best. .

There are good routes for serious road riders and they are easily and safely accessible by bike, but it still is an accidental benefit to transportation and recreation infrastructure which should be used accordingly. For really 'serious road riding' the road gets closed off, in other cases you have to respect the rules and always be prepared to slow down, ride on the designated surface or move over if the situation requires it. I think the Dutch in general are very welcoming to tourists and other foreigners and will happily do some dutchplaining, But a lot of tourists act like the destination is their playground.
Stadjer is offline  
Old 02-21-19, 04:13 AM
  #39  
avole
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: France
Posts: 1,031

Bikes: Brompton, Time, Bianchi, Jan Janssen, Peugeot

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 598 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
Out of everywhere in Western Europe to live, AMS would be one of the last choices I would make due to the tourism blight. Even CPH is getting really bad as well
Think of the plusses. The Netherlands is in the EU, has a higher standard of living than the UK and is far better organised. Climate change means the weather is improving, and the national football team puts England’s to shame.

As to tourists, can you blame them? Besides, it is easy to find places where they don’ t go.

P.S. Most speak better English than the English.

avole is offline  
Old 02-21-19, 05:53 AM
  #40  
acidfast7
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: England / CPH
Posts: 8,563

Bikes: 2010 Cube Acid / 2013 Mango FGSS

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1053 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 24 Posts
Originally Posted by avole View Post
Think of the plusses. The Netherlands is in the EU, has a higher standard of living than the UK and is far better organised. Climate change means the weather is improving, and the national football team puts Englandís to shame.

As to tourists, can you blame them? Besides, it is easy to find places where they doní t go.

P.S. Most speak better English than the English.

I know, I've lived there, in Sweden, Denmark and Germany as well. In addition to the US and UK.

Not interested in AMS again.
acidfast7 is offline  
Old 02-21-19, 07:47 AM
  #41  
BonkonFleet
Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 40

Bikes: 2018 Trek Emonda sl6 Disc

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Ah Amsterdam. Home of bridge repeats.
BonkonFleet is offline  
Old 02-21-19, 09:58 AM
  #42  
pennpaul
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Jerusalem
Posts: 156

Bikes: Diamondback Haanjo Trail

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
AMS and The Netherlands might also be disappointing for foreign tourists who are self described "serious road riders" and expect the locals to recognize their personal need for speed, no matter where they are.
We were in AMS and The Netherlands for the first time last May. These pics were taken around 3:30pm in AMS in the afternoon which I suppose is approaching rush hour. The number of bikes in AMS was overwhelming. Bike parking at train stations, etc, was overflowing. The local drivers, riders, and pedestrians were OK, but for a tourist like me, it was confusing as to which walk/ride/drive signal to pay attention to when I wanted to cross the street. I guess you get used to it, though.


pennpaul is offline  
Old 02-21-19, 10:56 AM
  #43  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 27,855

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 88 Posts
Originally Posted by pennpaul View Post
We were in AMS and The Netherlands for the first time last May. These pics were taken around 3:30pm in AMS in the afternoon which I suppose is approaching rush hour. The number of bikes in AMS was overwhelming. Bike parking at train stations, etc, was overflowing. The local drivers, riders, and pedestrians were OK, but for a tourist like me, it was confusing as to which walk/ride/drive signal to pay attention to when I wanted to cross the street. I guess you get used to it, though.


Good pictures I assume you did not witness these cyclists crashing into each other left and right. Doesn't look inviting for a person who travels to Amsterdam with an expectation that he could/should ride around town in his normal "serious road rider" style.

I am sure you are correct in that people get used to it, just like driving on crowded city streets and through traffic jams, people get used to it and don't whine that they can't drive like they might on an Autobahn.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 02-21-19, 11:05 AM
  #44  
avole
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: France
Posts: 1,031

Bikes: Brompton, Time, Bianchi, Jan Janssen, Peugeot

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 598 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I don't understand the problem. People cycle on the right, they walk on the right too in many towns, and everything appears to be flowing in orderly fashion.
As every road user knows, the main thing that keeps even crowded roads flowing smoothly is predictability, which is what all these pictures show. You might have to learn some local road rules, but surely you would do that for any new country.
avole is offline  
Old 02-21-19, 11:50 AM
  #45  
pennpaul
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Jerusalem
Posts: 156

Bikes: Diamondback Haanjo Trail

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
I assume you did not witness these cyclists crashing into each other left and right...
Nope, did not witness any of that.

The hotel where we stayed had quite a busy street in front but I just could not get everything to cooperate in one shot. Here's a link to the Google Streetview. Hotel Cornerhouse. In both directions you have a sidewalk, bike lane, parking lane, driving lane, and tram lane. Felt a little like playing Frogger.
pennpaul is offline  
Old 02-21-19, 12:51 PM
  #46  
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,602
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1522 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 60 Posts
Originally Posted by pennpaul View Post
...it was confusing as to which walk/ride/drive signal to pay attention to when I wanted to cross the street. I guess you get used to it, though.
Originally Posted by pennpaul View Post
.... In both directions you have a sidewalk, bike lane, parking lane, driving lane, and tram lane. Felt a little like playing Frogger.
Usually mounted on poles with alternating black and white horizontal stripes, if the lights had:
  • a person - walking.
  • a bicycle - riding.
  • red-ball, yellow-ball, green-ball or red-arrow, yellow-arrow, green-arrow - driving.
  • negenoog (nine eyes) - tramming.
​​​​​​
-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline  
Old 02-21-19, 01:29 PM
  #47  
Stadjer
Senior Member
 
Stadjer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Groningen
Posts: 1,133

Bikes: Gazelle rod brakes, Batavus compact, Peugeot hybrid

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2344 Post(s)
Liked 45 Times in 34 Posts
Originally Posted by avole View Post
Think of the plusses. The Netherlands is in the EU, has a higher standard of living than the UK and is far better organised. Climate change means the weather is improving, and the national football team puts Englandís to shame.

As to tourists, can you blame them? Besides, it is easy to find places where they doní t go.

P.S. Most speak better English than the English.
That's a bit of a trap actually. Nobody minds switching to English but especially the native English speakers tend to take it for granted and feel accepted and integrated, only to find out after a year or two that without understanding Dutch, speaking is of less importance, they won't integrate any further because they miss out on about everything that's not in a one on one conversation.
Originally Posted by avole View Post
I don't understand the problem. People cycle on the right, they walk on the right too in many towns, and everything appears to be flowing in orderly fashion.
As every road user knows, the main thing that keeps even crowded roads flowing smoothly is predictability, which is what all these pictures show. You might have to learn some local road rules, but surely you would do that for any new country.
Yes, but often you've got to read the body language to predict and be predictable yourself. The written rules are not always followed and there are quite a few unwritten ones. But even if you're very familiar with Dutch cycling and infrastructure, from the things that can make city cycling complicated Amsterdam got them all, got more of it and often at the same time.
Stadjer is offline  
Old 02-21-19, 01:46 PM
  #48  
avole
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: France
Posts: 1,031

Bikes: Brompton, Time, Bianchi, Jan Janssen, Peugeot

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 598 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Well, I tried to learn Dutch in the time I was there and found the biggest problem, when people could understand my simple dutch, was that everyone replied in English. The pronunciation is a problem, I agree - I won't bore you with that old saw about how the Dutch spotted Germans in WW2, according to my ex wife's family, anyway.

You are probably right about Amsterdam, I spent more time in other cities, however, I agree about predictability - mentioned it myself - however, I think the problem is unfortunately general to tourism, in the short tours do nothing to help the tourist understand a people or its culture. It's also true that you can find English TV programmes easily. I also agree with a point made in another thread, that bicycle lanes are not always restricted to bicycles alone, and therefore that can create problems.

Anyway, presumably things are calmer in Groningen, compared to further south.
avole is offline  
Old 02-21-19, 09:14 PM
  #49  
124Spider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA
Posts: 307

Bikes: 2016 Cervelo R3 2018 Rodriguez Tandem

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by avole View Post
I won't bore you with that old saw about how the Dutch spotted Germans in WW2, according to my ex wife's family, anyway.

Scheveningen

124Spider is offline  
Old 02-21-19, 11:35 PM
  #50  
avole
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: France
Posts: 1,031

Bikes: Brompton, Time, Bianchi, Jan Janssen, Peugeot

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 598 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Got it in one !
avole is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.