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Helix Update?

Old 02-22-19, 08:45 AM
  #1751  
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Curious. A lone inventor spends years in design/redesign, testing/certification and creating a state of the art factory - all on Kickstarter funding. One could almost imagine the real story is a deep pocketed investor quietly provided majority funding and the patience to 'get it right'.

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Old 02-22-19, 09:18 AM
  #1752  
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Originally Posted by rhenning View Post
Again I think the Helix is a good idea I am just a bit surprised by the weight. I talked about my wife's bike S&S coupled 24 inch Seven which was custom built for her as a one off bike. The bike in the picture is about 16 pounds plus or minus a bit as you see it. Roger
Yes, I am quite familiar with Seven and they offer a superlative product. There titanium bicycles are second to none in the industry and I trust your weight numbers. This is why I am sighing with the numbers that Helix is claiming. Yes, the folds, clamps, and hinges will increase weight but by 11 pounds? Even so, comparing the artist renderings and the actual product I'm pretty impressed with the accuracy of the real world Helix. Perhaps the two most notable differences are 1) the seat post - originally in carbon fiber and 2) the angle of the fork and head tube. The finished seat post is disappointing. Could you purchase a third party carbon fiber seat post and swap out the Helix version? Not sure if another seat post would fit in the Helix's seat tube. As far as the angle of the fork and head tube are concerned perhaps the change is necessary for optimal performance of the fork? It will be interested exploring these concerns once more people get their Helix's and reviews start being posted.
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Old 02-22-19, 10:28 AM
  #1753  
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If the weight is a huge concern, I am sure that bike people will come up with aftermarket alternatives. Brompton has an entire industry around it to shave weight off that hefty folder. Someone will market carbon seatposts and other pretty bits to get the weight down a pound or two. At the price on kickstarter I'm guessing the rims are not the lightest ones out there, either, or the brakes. It's all about the frame, and component swapping is half the fun. My BF was 22 lbs and I've swapped stuff and dropped 3 lbs; granted I went from steel to titanium and ya'll will be going from titanium to carbon. Get the bikes, ride 'em, then tweak 'em and post back all the goodness!
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Old 02-22-19, 10:30 AM
  #1754  
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All bikes have compromises towards some end goal.
Want it ultralight? Then it'll be a wedgie, not a comfortable recumbent.
Want it to tolerate handling abuse? It won't be fragile carbon fiber.
No bike does it all. Each has its niche.

I want big wheels, ruggedness, light weight, a good price, standard components,
a compact & quick fold.
Helix does that best. It's what I'd been searching for after owning 20" Dahons.
(It would be nice if it were lighter. But the weight is still pretty good for what it is.)

To have other priorities is fine, & those people should buy something else.
To criticize something one doesn't want might be fun, but it's meh....

Last edited by Revoltingest; 02-22-19 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 02-22-19, 10:57 AM
  #1755  
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
If the weight is a huge concern, I am sure that bike people will come up with aftermarket alternatives. Brompton has an entire industry around it to shave weight off that hefty folder. Someone will market carbon seatposts and other pretty bits to get the weight down a pound or two. At the price on kickstarter I'm guessing the rims are not the lightest ones out there, either, or the brakes. It's all about the frame, and component swapping is half the fun. My BF was 22 lbs and I've swapped stuff and dropped 3 lbs; granted I went from steel to titanium and ya'll will be going from titanium to carbon. Get the bikes, ride 'em, then tweak 'em and post back all the goodness!
Over a year ago, I considered some weight saving ideas. I found lighter rims (BMX), but the
cost didn't justify the small weight savings. Same for cassette, brake levers, spokes, seat, etc.
The manufacturer's selection started to look like a pretty good balance of weight, cost &
performance. Of course, opinions will vary.
Besides, I plan to add fenders, Ergon GP3 grips, Topeak Mondopack Hydro seat bag with
tools, supplies & water. And then there's that big old Thudbuster I'll have on it sometimes.
Going a little overboard adding junk, eh.
Spending big $ to save a little weight seemed silly.
But maybe I'll become more obsessive later.
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Old 02-22-19, 11:06 AM
  #1756  
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24.5 lbs. for a 10-speed ti bike is ridiculous, regardless of wheel size. This is not what Helix was presented as.
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Old 02-22-19, 12:30 PM
  #1757  
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
24.5 lbs. for a 10-speed ti bike is ridiculous, regardless of wheel size. This is not what Helix was presented as.
Think of the tremendous progress made over the last couple years.
You've evolved from calling him a "crook" to "incompetent" to merely "overweight".
At this rate, next year you'll be posting about how great your Helix is.
I'm sure that riding it will be even more fun than bickering about it.

Are any other buyers in SE MI or near Pittsburgh?
A meet up could be fun.

Last edited by Revoltingest; 02-22-19 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 02-22-19, 12:37 PM
  #1758  
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You'll be lonely ! However, I do like the incurable optimism. How many dealers are there in your area, or are you totally reliant on the manufacturer for parts?
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Old 02-22-19, 12:48 PM
  #1759  
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Originally Posted by Revoltingest View Post
Think of the tremendous progress made over the last couple years.
You've evolved from calling him a "crook" to "incompetent" to merely "overweight".
At this rate, next year you'll be posting about how great your Helix is.
I'm sure that riding it will be even more fun than bickering about it.

Are any other buyers in SE MI or near Pittsburgh?
A meet up could be fun.
If he completely whiffed on making a lightweight folder out of titanium then "incompetent" may still apply. I don't see the point in spending all that cash for a folder no lighter than a decent Dahon.

Last edited by Joe Remi; 02-22-19 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 02-22-19, 12:48 PM
  #1760  
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Originally Posted by Revoltingest View Post
Over a year ago, I considered some weight saving ideas. I found lighter rims (BMX), but the
cost didn't justify the small weight savings. Same for cassette, brake levers, spokes, seat, etc.
The manufacturer's selection started to look like a pretty good balance of weight, cost &
performance. Of course, opinions will vary.
Besides, I plan to add fenders, Ergon GP3 grips, Topeak Mondopack Hydro seat bag with
tools, supplies & water. And then there's that big old Thudbuster I'll have on it sometimes.
Going a little overboard adding junk, eh.
Spending big $ to save a little weight seemed silly.
But maybe I'll become more obsessive later.
Yeah it totally depends on how you use it. My BF Pakit is ridden stripped down at 19lbs and I carry my tools in my sling bag I wear. Now the Dahon Mu Uno is my workbeast, and I use it with a Burley travoy trailer, various bags and seatpost rack, and have lots of accessories on it. I ride the BF for pure exercise and fun; I ride the Dahon when I need to carry stuff or it is crappy weather. But it allows me to keep the accessories off the BF and keep the weight down so I can easily carry it up the many steps to the Bart trains.
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Old 02-22-19, 12:59 PM
  #1761  
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
Yeah it totally depends on how you use it. My BF Pakit is ridden stripped down at 19lbs and I carry my tools in my sling bag I wear. Now the Dahon Mu Uno is my workbeast, and I use it with a Burley travoy trailer, various bags and seatpost rack, and have lots of accessories on it. I ride the BF for pure exercise and fun; I ride the Dahon when I need to carry stuff or it is crappy weather. But it allows me to keep the accessories off the BF and keep the weight down so I can easily carry it up the many steps to the Bart trains.
I picked up a Travoy on ebay for hauling light loads around behind my new
beast of burden, the Helix. It collapses to a small size, & looks like it will be
more versatile & better handling better than my old Bob Yak.
But the Yak was good for things like a small drill press.
What do you think of the seat post hitch vs the axle hitch?

Last edited by Revoltingest; 02-22-19 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 02-22-19, 01:02 PM
  #1762  
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
If he completely whiffed on making a lightweight folder out of titanium then "incompetent" may still apply. I don't see the point in spending all that cash for a folder no lighter than a decent Dahon.
Then it would make perfect sense for you to not buy one.
My needs are different though, & the money is no problem.
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Old 02-22-19, 01:06 PM
  #1763  
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Originally Posted by Revoltingest View Post
Then it would make perfect sense for you to not buy one.
My needs are different though, & the money is no problem.
Cool, then you can have your thoughts about it and I can have mine. You're the the one who responded to my post about weight, I wasn't trying to talk you into or out of anything.
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Old 02-22-19, 01:20 PM
  #1764  
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Originally Posted by avole View Post
You'll be lonely ! However, I do like the incurable optimism. How many dealers are there in your area, or are you totally reliant on the manufacturer for parts?
When buying a brand new product facing many risks & delays,
I find that the results are the same for both optimism & pessimism.
But the former is good for mental health, & the latter annoys others.
We each make our choice.
As for parts, I can get all but the proprietary ones at our LBS.
(We've lost a few, but some survived the purge.)
And if western civilization (or Helix) collapses, I have a machine shop.

Last edited by Revoltingest; 02-22-19 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 02-22-19, 01:34 PM
  #1765  
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Originally Posted by Jipe View Post
As already said, 24" wheels, especially with 40mm wide tires, do not provide any benefit wrt. 20" wheels, only drawbacks ! Several other folders manufacturers had or have some folders models with 24" wheels and even with wider, more comfortable 24" tires, there are no benefit compared to their 20" wheeled models.

24" wheels is a useless purely marketing differentiator (just like the complex, heavy, expensive, dirt exposed, maybe fragile helical hinge).
Um, I don’t know why you’re quoting me, but I was referring to WEIGHT, not RIDE QUALITY. Clearly your pedantry is meant for someone else?
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Old 02-22-19, 01:43 PM
  #1766  
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
24.5 lbs. for a 10-speed ti bike is ridiculous, regardless of wheel size. This is not what Helix was presented as.
If you want a lightweight full sized folder, you can either get a montague (mine was 2.6kg) or change bike (claimed frame weight 2.3kg).
Sub-15lbs 700c folder is very possible if you start with the change bike frame and use caliper brake.

And you can always put lightweight components on brompton frame (or better, titanium clones). You can make a standard steel brompton as light as 16-17lbs without spending too much.
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Old 02-22-19, 01:45 PM
  #1767  
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It's just... weight is the whole game. It's WAY more important in a folder than regular bikes because carrying weight is everything when multimodal commuting. You can't build a revolutionary lightweight titanium folder with bigger wheels..then it's not light! Now it's just another 24-inch-wheel folding bike that's going to be kind of a bear to carry unless you get the singlespeed. Which means you should just buy Linberl's mostly-steel BF PakiT and enjoy its "regular bike" ride.

Sorry, I just didn't expect this guy to get this far and miss the one target he HAD to hit. I don't get it.

Last edited by Joe Remi; 02-22-19 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 02-22-19, 01:49 PM
  #1768  
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Originally Posted by avole View Post
Who cares? You can’t compare bikes that have already been in production for many years, have complete dealership and spares networks with an experimental model based in one country with unknown support.
We're talking WEIGHT, homey: "complete dealership and spares networks” have nothing to do with this conversation.

Must be “non-sequitur day” today in France or something.
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Old 02-22-19, 02:07 PM
  #1769  
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No. This is a thread. Threads go in any direction. Live with it, don't whinge.
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Old 02-22-19, 02:19 PM
  #1770  
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Originally Posted by Raxel View Post
... (I have a universal robotics arm which I paid like 40,000 USD)...
Gott damm! You should be making frames and custom CNCing all your parts, not buying clones from China!

Can your robotic arm flawlessly TIG weld Ti? Did it come with its own inert gas chamber too?
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Old 02-22-19, 02:20 PM
  #1771  
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Originally Posted by avole View Post
No. This is a thread. Threads go in any direction. Live with it, don't whinge.
what’s a whinge? Another French term for non-sequitur?
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Old 02-22-19, 02:27 PM
  #1772  
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Originally Posted by spambait11 View Post

what’s a whinge? Another French term for non-sequitur?
NO! look it up. Surely you must be capable of that? Type "define:whinge" in the google search box. Then feel suitably chastened.
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Old 02-22-19, 02:30 PM
  #1773  
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Originally Posted by rhenning View Post
...which was custom built for her as a one off bike...
This clause makes all the difference in the world.
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Old 02-22-19, 02:34 PM
  #1774  
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Originally Posted by spambait11 View Post

what’s a whinge? Another French term for non-sequitur?

It's when one whines in British.

Wow....whooda thunk that discussing a folding bike would get as
drama filled as controversial forums about abortion, politics or Brexit?
At least Godwin's Law has yet to be realized.
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Old 02-22-19, 03:21 PM
  #1775  
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Raxel, excellent informed post. Helpful to my understanding. Time will tell.

Originally Posted by Raxel View Post
I disagree. They did not prove they can build the bike at the price. They just proved they can build a few bikes with the funding they got. It is totally different.

And CNC machines and robots are already widely adopted in Taiwan and China too. That's why now we can get CNC machined bike parts at the fractions of what they used to cost. One example is a pair of flatbar brake levers I recently purchased at $17 shipped. The original one made by Extralite costs $170. Much heavier Paul CNC brake levers cost $130 now. (just checked the ebay for the prices)

Finally the robots. Actually my major is robotics. Industrial 6 axis robotic arm used to cost tens of thousands of dollars. (I have a universal robotics arm which I paid like 40,000 USD) Now I heard one Chinese company is soon launching a 7 axis arm that costs only $6000. I dunno what kind of dark magic was used but what I am saying is that robots are getting really cheap, and if robotic manufacture becomes cheaper than Chinese labor they will use cheaper robots too.

And they are way advanced than you may think. You will be surprised to know that one Chinese company already copied the Boston dynamics dog robot (spot mini) and is already selling it.

So here I summarize. Whatever magic peter used to lower the production cost of helix tremendously (if he really did) can be also used by Asian countries. And if such magic exists, big brands would have jumped in years ago.
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