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Fixing a cut in a tubeless tire Hutchinson kit didn't work.

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Fixing a cut in a tubeless tire Hutchinson kit didn't work.

Old 06-13-19, 01:25 PM
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WizardOfBoz
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Fixing a cut in a tubeless tire - Hutchinson kit didn't work.

I had a negative experience with Hutchinson's tubeless repair kit.
1) Instructions are so inadequate as to be unsafe, IMHO. For example, no mention of the the fact that cyanoacrylate glue fumes affect your eyes, nor any safety notices about the cyanoacrylate glue itself.
2) No mention of how to remove cyanoacrylate from fingers (acetone is pretty much the best solvent)
3) Easy to get glue on said fingers
4) The patches come with foil (on one side) and clear film (other side) protectors. No mention in instructions about removing this packaging. Pretty obvious, but its hard to get a foothold (fingerhold) to get those things off.
5) The patches come with one side all blue, and the other side with a black dot with blue surround. Anyone know which side goes towards the tire? Wasn't in the instructions.
6) Instructions say to apply glue and then wait 15 seconds, then to apply the patch. How much glue (just wet, thin layer, thick layer)?
7) Instructions say to hold patch on for a minute. Firs of all, how? Too easy to glue yourself to tire. Next, glue had not set even after the allotted time.
8) From testing, I can tell you that neither side (blue or blue/black) sticks well after being applied. Both patches leaked after I reinstalled and pumped up the tire. A complete fail.
9) One leak was a small cut. The patch did not appear to have sufficient strength (or maybe it was just that it wasn't adhering at all) and so the cut appears as a little zit or bump on the tire. Avoiding this was why I bought the kit! I wanted to add some structural integrity to the tire so that it wouldn't have a "zit" to avoid the "zit" wearing down and leaking.

I chose the Hutchinson kit because I wanted a reliable seal that added some structural integrity to the tire. Not sure I got anything of any value at all from this kit. I avoided the "bacon strip" (strip of raw rubber that is poked through the hole to seal because I didn't feel it would be reliable. Was this wrong?:

How do other folks fix small cuts and tears that sealant doesn't fully seal?

Last edited by WizardOfBoz; 06-13-19 at 01:29 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 06-13-19, 01:31 PM
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Use a plug or a regular patch from the inside. If patching clean the inside of the tire where you will be patching with rubbing alcohol, lightly sand and patch as like a tube.

Iíve done each several times and they will last the life of the tire. Superglue does not belong near bicycle tires.


This is the best plug kit: https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/.../rp-prod177626
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Old 06-13-19, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot View Post
Use a plug or a regular patch from the inside. If patching clean the inside of the tire where you will be patching with rubbing alcohol, lightly sand and patch as like a tube.
Iíve done each several times and they will last the life of the tire. Superglue does not belong near bicycle tires.
This is the best plug kit: https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/.../rp-prod177626
All useful. Agree wrt to the superglue. Sheesh.
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Old 06-13-19, 05:39 PM
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I tried that Hutchinson kit once and had the same results. I have since patched many tires using plain old Rema tube patches with Rema glue or Slime glue.
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Old 06-13-19, 10:05 PM
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you really need a tacky rubber glue the cheap stuff just wont bond !!
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Old 06-14-19, 04:34 AM
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Is this a road, hybrid or mountain tire?

Mountain tires are pretty easy to patch with normal tube kits for smaller holes. My son and I did one 20 miles out of Kalispell last July on the side of the road. For larger holes, I keep pieces of mountain bike tire sidewall on hand as they have fibers in them that keep them from stretching.

Road tires are a bit of a different animal. I have patched them on occasions where I get a spot that doesn't want to seal. Tubeless is great, but it does happen.

Over on bikepacking.net, there is a stickied thread about tire repair. When bikepacking, you can get way out in the back country and if your tire gets a slice in the sidewall, you might have to take extraordinary steps to limp back to civilization. I always carry needles, kevlar thread, some sidewall for patches and a couple of tubes of superglue.
Tubeless Tire Sidewall Repair
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Old 06-16-19, 07:07 AM
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CA glue for tire repair? Odd, but I've never tried it even though I use it a lot for other wood working and other projects. Even though Hutchinson says that the glue and patch are specifically designed for this purpose, I wonder if my generic CA would work with a regular Rema patch. I have a tire with a slice in it so I'll give it a try.

Zack Overholt at BikeRumor likes it.
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Old 06-19-19, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by bakerjw View Post
Is this a road, hybrid or mountain tire?
...
Road tires are a bit of a different animal. I have patched them on occasions where I get a spot that doesn't want to seal. Tubeless is great, but it does happen.
26mm road tires, cut within what I'd view as the normal range of "tread". That is, about 5mm off center. I'm not criticizing tubeless for being particularly difficult to repair. If I'd picked a good repair kit (like the Velox) which just used good old contact cement, I'd be fine with the patch. The think I was griping about was getting the d****d tire back on the rim. This may just be the Bontrager tire or rim (there appears to be very little "valley" in the center of the rim where the bead can go to give you clearance).

Regarding patching sidewalls, I'm a big guy (245#) and therefore I have the tires pumped up to max psi, so patching a sidewall is not anything I'd consider doing.
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Old 06-19-19, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz View Post
26mm road tires, cut within what I'd view as the normal range of "tread". That is, about 5mm off center. I'm not criticizing tubeless for being particularly difficult to repair. If I'd picked a good repair kit (like the Velox) which just used good old contact cement, I'd be fine with the patch. The think I was griping about was getting the d****d tire back on the rim. This may just be the Bontrager tire or rim (there appears to be very little "valley" in the center of the rim where the bead can go to give you clearance).

Regarding patching sidewalls, I'm a big guy (245#) and therefore I have the tires pumped up to max psi, so patching a sidewall is not anything I'd consider doing.
Hutchinson's website appears to indicate that the kit with cyanoacrylate glue is for low pressure mountain bike tires. Their kit for road tires uses regular tube repair cement.
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Old 06-19-19, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
Hutchinson's website appears to indicate that the kit with cyanoacrylate glue is for low pressure mountain bike tires. Their kit for road tires uses regular tube repair cement.
Thanks for your note. Their catalog does not differentiate the adhesives used, and in fact uses the exact same verbiage for both kits. Have you used the road kit? Successfully? If you had a good experience, please feel free to share. One purpose of forums is accurate information from a statistically significant sample, so folks can make good decisions. But I will point out that the reviews on Amazon include a couple of "Total Fail" reports like mine.

Also, the adverts for both kits state that one mode of repair is to add a drop of the glue to the cut, with the implication that this would help seal the leak. So I think that both kits are cyanoacrylate.

But your note points out additional fails.

I ordered from Jenson USA, and I'm sure that I'd ordered the road tire repair kit. In any case they sent the MTB repair kit. So that's a Jenson USA fail. I'll admit it could possibly have been me, but in this case I don't think so.

To continue on a theme (of poor instructions) THERE WAS NO MENTION OF APPLICATION LIMITS in the instructions. Nothing to say "use this only on low pressure tires", etc. Only the title: Rep'Air MTB Tubeless.

I went to the Hutchinson site and could find no mention whatsoever of their Rep'Air kits. I had to download their 80 page catalog to find a mention. The catalog says nothing of pressures. I've given up on everything Hutchinson (the poor communication/specification/instructions alone would turn me off, but the total product fail cemented* it). But the catalog describes one kit as having a 3 g tube of instant adhesive with 4 x 25mm patches, the other (road) kit as having a 5g tube on instant adhesive with 4 x 17mm round patches. Hutchinson doesn't list their MSDS online, so I can't tell if one is cyanoacrylate and the other rubber contact cement, or if both are cyanoacrylates. Frankly, given that the cyanoacrylate didn't stick to the patch I can't see how this would work any better on an MTB tire.

I'm writing Jenson to complain about the wrong product and the poor description and the poor quality. Will report back on their response. In this situation, I don't even want to try the road product, because I suspect it has cyanocrylate glue, too. I'll try the Velox kit.

BTW, our friends at BikeRumors had this to say:
"Once the glue is in place, immediately peel the foil off of the patch, and apply and hold until it’s fixed. This is the most frustrating part of the repair as it’s fairly messy, and it takes awhile for the patch to affix to the tire. I would recommend a pair of Nitrile gloves such as Park Tool’s mechanic gloves, so that your hands won’t be covered in glue, trust me, it will happen." Now, I will say that the instructions that came with the kit don't include any of this information.

Catalog is here:
https://www.hutchinsontires.com/help...chinson-us.pdf

*Hey, a pun!

Last edited by WizardOfBoz; 06-19-19 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 06-19-19, 01:21 PM
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Boot the cut and put a tube in it, while you go shopping for a New Tire..
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Old 06-19-19, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz View Post
Thanks for your note. Their catalog does not differentiate the adhesives used, and in fact uses the exact same verbiage for both kits. Have you used the road kit? Successfully? If you had a good experience, please feel free to share. One purpose of forums is accurate information from a statistically significant sample, so folks can make good decisions. But I will point out that the reviews on Amazon include a couple of "Total Fail" reports like mine.

Also, the adverts for both kits state that one mode of repair is to add a drop of the glue to the cut, with the implication that this would help seal the leak. So I think that both kits are cyanoacrylate.

But your note points out additional fails.

I ordered from Jenson USA, and I'm sure that I'd ordered the road tire repair kit. In any case they sent the MTB repair kit. So that's a Jenson USA fail. I'll admit it could possibly have been me, but in this case I don't think so.

To continue on a theme (of poor instructions) THERE WAS NO MENTION OF APPLICATION LIMITS in the instructions. Nothing to say "use this only on low pressure tires", etc. Only the title: Rep'Air MTB Tubeless.

I went to the Hutchinson site and could find no mention whatsoever of their Rep'Air kits. I had to download their 80 page catalog to find a mention. The catalog says nothing of pressures. I've given up on everything Hutchinson (the poor communication/specification/instructions alone would turn me off, but the total product fail cemented* it). But the catalog describes one kit as having a 3 g tube of instant adhesive with 4 x 25mm patches, the other (road) kit as having a 5g tube on instant adhesive with 4 x 17mm round patches. Hutchinson doesn't list their MSDS online, so I can't tell if one is cyanoacrylate and the other rubber contact cement, or if both are cyanoacrylates. Frankly, given that the cyanoacrylate didn't stick to the patch I can't see how this would work any better on an MTB tire.

I'm writing Jenson to complain about the wrong product and the poor description and the poor quality. Will report back on their response. In this situation, I don't even want to try the road product, because I suspect it has cyanocrylate glue, too. I'll try the Velox kit.

BTW, our friends at BikeRumors had this to say:
"Once the glue is in place, immediately peel the foil off of the patch, and apply and hold until itís fixed. This is the most frustrating part of the repair as itís fairly messy, and it takes awhile for the patch to affix to the tire. I would recommend a pair of Nitrile gloves such as Park Toolís mechanic gloves, so that your hands wonít be covered in glue, trust me, it will happen." Now, I will say that the instructions that came with the kit don't include any of this information.

Catalog is here:
https://www.hutchinsontires.com/help...chinson-us.pdf

*Hey, a pun!
From: https://www.hutchinsontires.com/help...chinson-us.pdf
I really don't know.
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Old 06-19-19, 07:04 PM
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Yup, the catalog cut is from the catalong at the URL I cited. Consistent with their poor instructions, Hutchinson proceeds along the lines of providing less information that what is needed here. The descriptions are IDENTICAL, except that the road product has emery cloth and the patch sizes are different.

Sooooo. Has anyone USED both products, or at least the road product? Does the road product use different (e.g. rubber patch) cement?
I'm not buying anything Hutchinson, ever, but I'm getting curious now about the cement. I suspect its the same - because they claim you can pinch glue a leak from the outside.
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Old 06-19-19, 07:29 PM
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Yes I have successfully repaired a small cut on the tread using the Hutchinson tubeless repair kit. I applied glue to the cut on the outside of the tire, sanded and cleaned the interior, applied liberal amount of glue to the area where the patch would reside, applied the patch (you must separate the foil. The side that you just exposed goes on the puncture)), let it dry, and remounted and applied sealant to the tire.

Last edited by jadocs; 06-19-19 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 06-19-19, 07:44 PM
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I left the clear plastic part on top of the round patch itself because it seemed to be stuck on there pretty good and it wasnít going to affect the bond between the patch and the tire. I switched from 25mm tires to 28mm which is why itís not on my bike.
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Old 06-19-19, 07:47 PM
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I cannot speak to the difference between cement for the MTB and Road kits.

Edit: I just used my bare hands. I did not have any issue with the glue, nor was it a messy job so not sure what Bike Rumor is talking about. If I remember correctly after the glue is applied to the tire, youíre supposed to let it sit for a bit before applying the patch then use your thumbs to work from the inside out over the patch. Again, Iím not sure what Bike Rumor is talking about.

Last edited by jadocs; 06-19-19 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 06-19-19, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
I cannot speak to the difference between cement for the MTB and Road kits.

Edit: I just used my bare hands. I did not have any issue with the glue, nor was it a messy job so not sure what Bike Rumor is talking about. If I remember correctly after the glue is applied to the tire, youíre supposed to let it sit for a bit before applying the patch then use your thumbs to work from the inside out over the patch. Again, Iím not sure what Bike Rumor is talking about.
Yeah, you're supposed to let it set for 15 seconds. I may have used too much glue. But I noticed all the things that bikerumor noticed.
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Old 06-19-19, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz View Post
Yeah, you're supposed to let it set for 15 seconds. I may have used too much glue. But I noticed all the things that bikerumor noticed.
I could be wrong but I donít think you can use too much glue because I used a lot. I wanted to make sure every bit of the patch to include the plastic I left on was covered well. I didnít remount the tire or apply sealant until it was dry.
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Old 06-19-19, 08:10 PM
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If you look close you can see the area where I applied the glue surrounding the patch (itís slightly darker). Note the plastic part didnít stick, but it allowed me to massage the patch really well.
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Old 06-19-19, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz View Post
Yup, the catalog cut is from the catalong at the URL I cited. Consistent with their poor instructions, Hutchinson proceeds along the lines of providing less information that what is needed here. The descriptions are IDENTICAL, except that the road product has emery cloth and the patch sizes are different.
Wow, not sure where the disconnect is. Can you see the difference in "rubber glue" and "instant adhesive"? Apparently the instructions are also different.

Subtle hints frequently don't work, same as general guidance for investigation. When even spelling things out doesn't work, then what to do? I give up. "May peace be upon your house."
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Old 06-20-19, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
Wow, not sure where the disconnect is. Can you see the difference in "rubber glue" and "instant adhesive"? Apparently the instructions are also different.

Subtle hints frequently don't work, same as general guidance for investigation. When even spelling things out doesn't work, then what to do? I give up. "May peace be upon your house."
And peace upon your house, too AnkleWork. I'm not trying to frustrate you. I now see that while the texts describing the kits are EXACTLY the same, and the "Description" is nearly exactly the same (different size tube and patch, but using the words "instant adhesive" in both cases), that the DIMENSIONS are listed differently. I guess I'm just too much of an engineer: I expect DIMENSION to be, like, a number or numbers with an associated unit(s). I suspect that I saw "DIMENSION" and didn't even look at it. So one item has dimensions of "Rubber Glue" and the other has dimensions of "Instant Adhesive"? And BOTH are described as having "Instant Adhesive"? Given that I missed the "rubber adhesive" and I WAS LOOKING FOR IT, and that both items have identical text blurbs and nearly identical descriptions, and yet are (apparently) different, I'd have to say that this is another extremely example of extremely poor, customer unfriendly communication on Hutchinson's part.

I am not letting go of the poor instructions for the MTB kit, because I think it's dangerous. Further, I think that the MTB kit should at least have stuck to the tire and sealed it temporarily, and it didn't. I tried some of the techniques others used above (keeping the clear plastic on, for example) and held the thing for five minutes. And it still hadn't stuck - came off easily. I did try the technique jadoc suggested, but I guess I wasn't as adept.

I've written Jenson USA (because I remember clicking on the Road option when I ordered, and got the MTB option). No response yet.

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Old 06-20-19, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz View Post
And peace upon your house, too AnkleWork. I'm not trying to frustrate you. I now see that while the texts describing the kits are EXACTLY the same, and the "Description" is nearly exactly the same (different size tube and patch, but using the words "instant adhesive" in both cases), that the DIMENSIONS are listed differently. I guess I'm just too much of an engineer: I expect DIMENSION to be, like, a number or numbers with an associated unit(s). I suspect that I saw "DIMENSION" and didn't even look at it. So one item has dimensions of "Rubber Glue" and the other has dimensions of "Instant Adhesive"? And BOTH are described as having "Instant Adhesive"? Given that I missed the "rubber adhesive" and I WAS LOOKING FOR IT, and that both items have identical text blurbs and nearly identical descriptions, and yet are (apparently) different, I'd have to say that this is another extremely example of extremely poor, customer unfriendly communication on Hutchinson's part.

I am not letting go of the poor instructions for the MTB kit, because I think it's dangerous. Further, I think that the MTB kit should at least have stuck to the tire and sealed it temporarily, and it didn't. I tried some of the techniques others used above (keeping the clear plastic on, for example) and held the thing for five minutes. And it still hadn't stuck - came off easily. I did try the technique jadoc suggested, but I guess I wasn't as adept.

I've written Jenson USA (because I remember clicking on the Road option when I ordered, and got the MTB option). No response yet.

Yikes, yeah there is definitely something going on with that glue in the MTB kit. I will caveat my experience with the fact that I think after applying the patch, I let it sit for a good long while. I wanted to make sure everything was dry before I made it wet again with sealant. I also made sure to clean the area very very well using rubbing alcohol prior to applying glue and new patch, because the surface was "greasy" so to speak from the old sealant.
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Old 06-20-19, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
Yikes, yeah there is definitely something going on with that glue in the MTB kit. I will caveat my experience with the fact that I think after applying the patch, I let it sit for a good long while. I wanted to make sure everything was dry before I made it wet again with sealant. I also made sure to clean the area very very well using rubbing alcohol prior to applying glue and new patch, because the surface was "greasy" so to speak from the old sealant.
That may have been my mistake, jadocs. I thought that I'd cleaned it adequately but should have used your approach, with solvent. Because after 3 or 4 minutes holding it with my thumb, the patch didn't stick to the tire, and it did stick to my thumb. But only marginally well - I could easily peel it off. .I suspect that traditional rubber cement is a bit more tolerant of sealant. But maybe not: latex emulsions like sealant use water and soap (or something like soap) to keep the organic (rubber) phase suspended. So even though I rinsed the tube off and cleaned it with soap and water, there may have been a bit of the soap stuck in the sealant that remained.
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Old 06-23-19, 10:49 PM
  #24  
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Did a nice little 15mile ride today. FWIW, the tire didn't leak at either point.
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Old 06-27-19, 01:54 PM
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Jenson's did get back to me and offered me a refund. I've written to Hutchinson to get their side of the story. Will report back.
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