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Utrecht’s Vredenburg is the busiest cycle path in all of the Netherlands

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Utrecht’s Vredenburg is the busiest cycle path in all of the Netherlands

Old 06-21-19, 10:37 AM
  #101  
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Some visiting US actor type whose mother is Danish providing a little biking mood shot:
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Old 06-21-19, 11:09 AM
  #102  
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This is one of the most congested areas on my commute.

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Old 06-21-19, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by nuxx View Post
But back to the imagery, without having been there myself (even though my sister lived there for 2 years, shame on me), I think Utrecht is a bit of an edge case given a relatively small urban centre with a fairly large metropolitan catchment area... and thus presumably relatively few (the station being one) urban traffic nexi. Copenhagen as an example yields a larger urban centre with several traffic nexi and therefore a comparatively lower concentration in terms of parking (and basically every workplace has dedicated bike parking space). But taking it a bit further... seeing that this location is the central station (though knowing practically nothing about Dutch commute patterns across cities) - perhaps Utrecht also serves as a gateway for people continuing their commutes by train to Amsterdam and Rotterdam, merely 20 and 40 minutes away respectively? Considering this hypothetical bike->Utrecht->train to major city pattern - this "hub" can indeed be presumed to replace at least some amount of car traffic which would otherwise head directly into either of those major cities. I have a Dutch friend whom I've visited in the past - I certainly remember the highway queues on the inroads to Amsterdam and her muted road rage ...would love for someone from the area to confirm or reject this theory?
Utrecht is the railway hub. It's in the centre of the country anyway and only a few trains pass it by, it's by far the biggest train station in the country. The only thing special about Utrecht is it's litte 'centre of a region' function and it's size. It's remarkably populous because basically it's just a city like Nijmegen, Tilburg, Groningen, Eindhoven etc. which are about half te size. There's nothing special about the cycling there either, other than they seem to be more infrastructure beeing build than already finished. They got a lot to recover from because the central station area was victim to the GM model for car friendly cities and got a mall and central station building that was a famous failure.

There's not more cycling in Utrecht than in cities one size smaller and less than in my hometown of Groningen. But all these cities want to profile themselves as the cycling city and Utrecht has the numbers to show off because of it's size. Eindhoven's got the most spectacular cycle path, Den Bosch the best cycling bridge and Groningen has little recent achievements to show for because it has always been ahead and there's little room for improvement left. So they are more into cycling logo's and stuff like that lately. Amsterdam can't compete and wouldn't anyway, national acclaim is below them. But it is a cycling city, it has made the city to what it is and the people kept cycling no matter how bad the infrastructure and the traffic got or gets. It can't function without it.

Originally Posted by nuxx View Post
Some visiting US actor type whose mother is Danish providing a little biking mood shot: https://www.instagram.com/p/By4dBo7FQ0J/
That's a lot of cars. How do enjoy a beer on a sidewalk cafe like that?
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Old 06-21-19, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by alan s View Post
This is one of the most congested areas on my commute.

Where is that? Planespotters drool for such a spot.
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Old 06-21-19, 01:32 PM
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Being surrounded by swarms of people, whether on foot or bicycle, is spiritual.
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Old 06-21-19, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Phamilton View Post
Where is that? Planespotters drool for such a spot.
That’s why it’s so congested (picture was from the morning commute and is not representative of the usual number of people there). North end of DCA runway. Gravelly Point.
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Old 06-22-19, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Stadjer View Post
Utrecht is the railway hub. It's in the centre of the country anyway and only a few trains pass it by, it's by far the biggest train station in the country.[...]
Thank you for that clarification, it seems my suspicions weren't far off - then it does make for an inaccurate/unfair representation of bike-congestion... albeit it shows the potential effects of missing bike-planning from the outset.


Originally Posted by Stadjer View Post
That's a lot of cars. How do enjoy a beer on a sidewalk cafe like that?
In the network of pedestrian only streets spanning the entire km west from where he's filming... or in Nyhavn on the opposite side of the square to his right, if you're into tourist crowds... but in this particular genre I'd say you're much better off going to Amsterdam indeed
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Old 06-24-19, 03:36 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
@robertorolfo, why do you find Citi Bike to be a net negative?
Hold back on your disdain for gentrifiers. If you haven't been one, you might be one in the future. I was one. We all need places to live. I don't believe in telling people they can't own cars, but I do believe in getting car drivers to pay their costs, which they're currently not doing with the road maintenance, their effects on traffic and their free parking. And they should be thanking me for not driving because it makes life better for them.
There has been too much catering to car traffic in the city for several generations. It will take several generations to unwind that, if it ever happens. I hope it does, but I won't live to see the results.
Because I think it puts a lot of people on bikes that probably shouldn't be on bikes. Everyone should have the right to ride, but when your riding is unsafe and detrimental to others (other riders, pedestrians...) then it becomes a net negative (again, in my opinion).

And I know I might sound a little over the top, but I recently noticed that the electric Citibikes seemed to have disappeared, and it looks like I was sorta on the right track with my thinking on those: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/15/n...-electric.html

On cars, I agree that the ride sharing services are not paying their fair share in infrastructure expenses, but I'm not sure that the same applies to private citizens.

(P.S. Gentrification is another topic and perhaps even more complicated than this one. Suffice to say that I don't see it as this inevitable phenomenon that many think it is, nor do I agree with the notion that it has been going on in NYC for decades.)

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Same argument is applicable to the Uber-Lyft ride hailing phenomena in crowded urban areas such as Manhattan traffic problems -no reduction in traffic congestion. Smartphone app connected ride hailing is being used not as an alternative to the passengers' personal motor vehicle, but instead as an alternative to public transportation or medallion taxis.

There are good reasons for choosing Uber, Lyft or bicycles to get around in cities but earning bragging rights for reducing traffic congestion is not one of those reasons.
Exactly. Ride sharing has contributed a significant amount of congestion and pollution to NYC. People are indeed driving (or, rather, being driven) on trips that they wouldn't have driven prior to the phenomenon, plus a whole host of other issues...
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Old 06-24-19, 06:59 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by Phamilton View Post
Being surrounded by swarms of people, whether on foot or bicycle, is spiritual.
Indeed. Being surrounded by swarms of people makes me use the Lord's name in vain. Then I have to ask for forgiveness.
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Old 06-25-19, 10:26 AM
  #110  
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The worst thing that could have happened for our planet was for U.S. geologists to find gigatons of oil and natural gas in the Bokken Oil Fields. Have you noticed those giant passenger vans and immense pick-up trucks that are rolling down the Interstates lately? Had a guy get stuck on my street and completely shut down traffic movement for an hour till help came to get him free. Americans have gotten used to freedom of 280 ppl/mi.sq. which is the United States where until recently only 15% lived in 'cities'. Most imagine that other people in other parts of the world would like to live without neighbors, without crowds, alone .... utterly alone. How wonderful. Not. I don't think Portland, OR is crowded, but most people that were raised here lament the 'growth'. Well the price for that growth has been considerable. America, and America alone has put the planet on life support with our outsize appetite for motor vehicle usage. There isn't any coming out of this without casualties. Actually the dying has already begun. It's hard to notice because its such a big world. People whose interests (income) depend on the status quo work hard to disconnect the deaths with anything substantive. My friends, this does not end well. Americans bike the least of any developed country and that will never change. Any hope that the oil might run out and force a switch to more sustainable and less environmentally destructive transportation is foolish in light of all the energy that is being expended by the Fossil Fuel Industry in crude oil mining and simultaneous attacks on solar and wind power projects. Cycling? What about it? There isn't any significant cycling going on in America. Cycling in America is just another example of the selfish need of Americans to get away from other people and be ... free.
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Old 06-25-19, 11:06 AM
  #111  
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There’s a special place in China for you. Lots of people, cars, bikes and pedestrians, with brown air.

https://images.app.goo.gl/sn64MCYUCFrmbf2M6

Last edited by alan s; 06-25-19 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 06-25-19, 04:35 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
The worst thing that could have happened for our planet was for U.S. geologists to find gigatons of oil and natural gas in the Bokken Oil Fields. Have you noticed those giant passenger vans and immense pick-up trucks that are rolling down the Interstates lately? Had a guy get stuck on my street and completely shut down traffic movement for an hour till help came to get him free. Americans have gotten used to freedom of 280 ppl/mi.sq. which is the United States where until recently only 15% lived in 'cities'. Most imagine that other people in other parts of the world would like to live without neighbors, without crowds, alone .... utterly alone. How wonderful. Not. I don't think Portland, OR is crowded, but most people that were raised here lament the 'growth'. Well the price for that growth has been considerable. America, and America alone has put the planet on life support with our outsize appetite for motor vehicle usage.
I agree with a lot of what you said, but you can't ignore the fact that China and India alone have 2.6 billion people. Yes, that's 2.6 billion mouths to feed (with all of the pollution needed to do so), and in countries where the environmental laws leave a lot to be desired.

I'm not blaming them, but to act like the fate of the planet is in our hands alone is shortsighted. 70 plus years ago, maybe, but that ship has sailed.
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Old 06-26-19, 01:49 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by alan s View Post
There’s a special place in China for you. Lots of people, cars, bikes and pedestrians, with brown air.

https://images.app.goo.gl/sn64MCYUCFrmbf2M6
That's really funny because that was EXACTLY how the UK (London) looked earlier this year.
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Old 06-26-19, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post
I agree with a lot of what you said, but you can't ignore the fact that China and India alone have 2.6 billion people. Yes, that's 2.6 billion mouths to feed (with all of the pollution needed to do so), and in countries where the environmental laws leave a lot to be desired.

I'm not blaming them, but to act like the fate of the planet is in our hands alone is shortsighted. 70 plus years ago, maybe, but that ship has sailed.
The fate of the planet is in OUR hands. We keep passing the ball off to China but they are not the problem. China has 5x our population and now, after decades. They might now exceed our emissions of greenhouse gases. But they get it. They have plateaued their output and are decreasing them from here on out. We on the other hand have scrapped the plans that were made to do likewise and as a result for the last three years our emissions have been increasing year over year with no end in sight! You say 70 years ago? I say 40. China 70 years ago was not doing anywhere close to what we were doing to the environment. The vast majority of Chinese and Indian subjects have a minimal carbon footprint. Most live at a subsistence standard. We (should) own this.
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Old 06-26-19, 02:07 PM
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London in April of 2019
https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img...=1555672893935
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Old 06-26-19, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
The vast majority of Chinese and Indian subjects have a minimal carbon footprint. Most live at a subsistence standard. We (should) own this.
Does this include the pollution associated with simply feeding all of these people? Serious question.
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Old 06-26-19, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
The fate of the planet is in OUR hands. We keep passing the ball off to China but they are not the problem. China has 5x our population and now, after decades. They might now exceed our emissions of greenhouse gases. But they get it. They have plateaued their output and are decreasing them from here on out. We on the other hand have scrapped the plans that were made to do likewise and as a result for the last three years our emissions have been increasing year over year with no end in sight! You say 70 years ago? I say 40. China 70 years ago was not doing anywhere close to what we were doing to the environment. The vast majority of Chinese and Indian subjects have a minimal carbon footprint. Most live at a subsistence standard. We (should) own this.
Who is “we”? Your audience here is bike commuters. People who already in some fashion or another are making a difference. I’d say a big one.
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Old 06-27-19, 04:23 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by Phamilton View Post
Your audience here is bike commuters. People who already in some fashion or another are making a difference. I’d say a big one.
Hmmm... primarily biking impacts personal health and local environments (both quite dramatically too!)... however the resulting peripherary displacement of motor traffic in a climate context is an absolutely minuscule effect. So I certainly wouldn't say "a big one" ...vote green, avoid plane travel, buy local produce, figure out a low emmission heating solution for your house and... vote green. Without systemic change at the highest policy levels we don't stand a chance... your personal choices and voting with your wallet counts too - but primarily as a signal rather than directly, because globally even entire countries are still a minority here... So you can easily be driving a gas-gussler and still be hurting the climate less than the biking enthusiast who flies cross atlantic 4 times a year... I'm in no way a saint in this respect :/
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Old 06-27-19, 08:26 AM
  #119  
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Give a hoot, don’t pollute.

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Old 06-27-19, 12:47 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by nuxx View Post
Hmmm... primarily biking impacts personal health and local environments (both quite dramatically too!)... however the resulting peripherary displacement of motor traffic in a climate context is an absolutely minuscule effect. So I certainly wouldn't say "a big one" ...vote green, avoid plane travel, buy local produce, figure out a low emmission heating solution for your house and... vote green. Without systemic change at the highest policy levels we don't stand a chance... your personal choices and voting with your wallet counts too - but primarily as a signal rather than directly, because globally even entire countries are still a minority here... So you can easily be driving a gas-gussler and still be hurting the climate less than the biking enthusiast who flies cross atlantic 4 times a year... I'm in no way a saint in this respect :/
We are in agreement. There are a lot of green types among the bike commuters here on this forum. If you're right that "without systemic change at the highest policy levels" etc (and I tend to mostly agree with this as well at the moment) ... I think my point was that making appeals like that here on the commuter bike forum is sort of like "preaching to the choir". And there's nothing wrong with that, it's just not as effective at getting message out to where it needs to be heard, if that makes sense. Also in this case, it sounded like the appeal I was commenting on was being made especially to Americans and was hoping that @Leisesturm might explain how Americans have more of a responsibility than anybody else, IF that's what he meant, because that's how I read it. I'm also mindful that many of our commuter members here are from elsewhere in the world. It's one reason of many that I love this forum, among the many reasons I don't love it very much sometimes.
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Old 06-28-19, 02:42 AM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by Phamilton View Post
in this case, it sounded like the appeal I was commenting on was being made especially to Americans and was hoping that @Leisesturm might explain how Americans have more of a responsibility than anybody else
Well... it's hard to disagree with that assessment to be fair:



We also have to agree that the US alone cannot provide sufficient reductions to alleviate our disastrous global trajectory... in absolute numbers China has long overtaken USA and India is certainly on a trajectory... but if personal culpability is the benchmark here... you cannot absolve the american individual his/her responsibility.
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Old 06-28-19, 07:49 AM
  #122  
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China is by far the world’s worst polluter. They pollute as much as the rest of the world combined.
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Old 06-28-19, 01:12 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by alan s View Post
China is by far the world’s worst polluter. They pollute as much as the rest of the world combined.
Isn't the country's population a big part of that?
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Old 06-28-19, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
Isn't the country's population a big part of that?
The country’s population is entirely responsible for what it is doing to the environment. Outsiders are not to blame for the problem, except to the extent that great deal of the pollution results from production of goods for export. Lax laws, heavy industry, and governmental policies have created a nightmare unequaled in the history of man. That floating island of plastic in the middle of the Pacific Ocean can be traced to China. The man made greenhouse gases produced in China are the highest on Earth. The waterways are extremely polluted. No one can even speak out in protest due to the political climate.
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Old 06-28-19, 03:23 PM
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@alan s, sorry, I meant to say the SIZE of the population is a huge factor in the pollution. If the same practices occurred in a smaller country, it wouldn't be as noticeable. In fact, I'm sure the practices do occur in other countries.
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