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Touring with a freewheel & broken spokes?

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Touring with a freewheel & broken spokes?

Old 08-29-19, 10:19 AM
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deux jambes 
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Touring with a freewheel & broken spokes?

Iím guessing most prefer a cassette, but those of you who ride long distances away from home, or bike shops, and perhaps for more than a day or two...

Please tell me. How do you deal with the misfortune of a broken drive side rear spoke on the road? I canít imagine many folks carrying a heavy crescent wrench thatís big enough to turn a freewheel removal tool.

The question is coming up for me as a touring build gets closer to competition & the plan to ride out of town for camping draws nearer. Iíd like to be best prepared for the chance of any rear drive side spoke breakage up the road.

Iíll add that in my case, Iím a light weight rider, and the bike will be carrying its load up front. Mostly paved road too. So maybe just true up as best as possible and rely on the remaining 35 spokes to do their job?

Last edited by deux jambes; 08-29-19 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 08-29-19, 10:40 AM
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A bikeforums member @jonwvara makes a tool that inserts into road sign posts to give you leverage to unscrew your freewheel:

New! The Freewheel Key
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Old 08-29-19, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by noobinsf View Post
A bikeforums member @jonwvara makes a tool that inserts into road sign posts to give you leverage to unscrew your freewheel:

New! The Freewheel Key
Handy in a tight spot!
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Old 08-29-19, 10:54 AM
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If you like to work on your own wheels, get them as well-tensioned and true - laterally and radially - as you can before the trip. Then check tension throughout the trip to make sure they're not loosening under load. If you're a lightweight, shouldn't run into any issues as long as you're vigilant. Let us know how it goes!
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Old 08-29-19, 10:55 AM
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...and before Jon's tool, there was a similar tool that can still be found on ebay that worked using fence posts or other convenient stationary objects. .
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Old 08-29-19, 10:57 AM
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What most would do BITD was to carry a freewheel tool with you. If you break a spoke with a 36h wheel, you can keep riding for quite a while. It's not like modern 20 spoke wheels. Eventually you'll roll by a gas station or something where you can ask nicely to borrow a wrench, or maybe even into a small town with a bike shop.

For this to work note that you will need a QR on your brake lever or somewhere to be able to open up your brakes a bit. Bad idea to true up to compensate. It will be a pain to get right again when the spoke is replaced. Try to avoid that.

There were also gizmos ie the pocket pro. A new improved version is available from @jonwvara as mentioned.

Another good preventative measure is to use double butted spokes. They're less likely to break. For that matter modern spokes in general break a lot less than they used to in ye olden days. I haven't broken a spoke in years.

Last edited by Salamandrine; 08-29-19 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 08-29-19, 10:59 AM
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it's not the freewheel or the cassette that is the determining factor, but rather the reduced dish associated with a FW hub that is the biggest determinant of rear wheel durability.

while I have no doubt that a wheel based on a cassette hub can be reliable enough for loaded touring, away from bike shops and support, if I was going to do a long tour (like I did in 2009) I'd suggest a 130mm over locknut (OLD) rear wheel, 36h Phil hub, DT 14g straight guage spokes on the drive side, and a 7 speed FW, DA MF 7400 if you can find one. Use a Mavic MA2 or (better) M217 rim. Spoke tensions in the 80KgF range.

Such a wheel is very strong and reliable, and the 130mm OLD allows for very low dish. This is a rear wheel you can count on.

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Bainbridge Island, WA USA
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Old 08-29-19, 11:42 AM
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It happened to me only once, on this Roy Thame:



Since its quick release system consists of disengaging the brakes, I decided to true the wheel using the multi-tool I had with me, and switch my riding style to 'limp home mode'. Rode it like that for another few days without any problems.

Last year I bought some of these at a swap meet. NOS 'first aid spokes'. Haven't tried them yet.

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Old 08-29-19, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by deux jambes View Post
I’m guessing most prefer a cassette, but those of you who ride long distances away from home, or bike shops, and perhaps for more than a day or two...

Please tell me. How do you deal with the misfortune of a broken drive side rear spoke on the road? I can’t imagine many folks carrying a heavy crescent wrench that’s big enough to turn a freewheel removal tool.

The question is coming up for me as a touring build gets closer to competition & the plan to ride out of town for camping draws nearer. I’d like to be best prepared for the chance of any rear drive side spoke breakage up the road.

I’ll add that in my case, I’m a light weight rider, and the bike will be carrying its load up front. Mostly paved road too. So maybe just true up as best as possible and rely on the remaining 35 spokes to do their job?
They make tools to pop off the cassette lockring while on tour, with the bonus that they're smaller and lighter than the stuff you'd need to take off a freewheel: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/...ock/index.html

So it makes no sense to revert to a freewheel system.
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Old 08-29-19, 12:08 PM
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I have never broken a spoke while touring but I have broken an axle on a 126mm OLN Specialized 36h low flange hub. Broken axles worry me more than broken spokes.
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Old 08-29-19, 12:13 PM
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During the late 1970's and eighties, I toured on a freewheel equipped bike, and I broke one spoke in thousands of miles of loaded touring. I had a freewheel remover and a crescent wrench with me, but I can't exactly remember what I used to get the FW off. I think I found a pipe for more leverage. There are temporary wire or carbon fiber replacements available. I'd carry one if I were to tour with a freewheel equipped bike.


As mentioned in other posts, the best thing is to have a properly trued and tensioned wheel.
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Old 08-29-19, 12:21 PM
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MPetryís advice is very sound if you donít mind increasing the spread on your vintage frame to handle 130 spacing.

I thought of that too when I rode my 1977 Bruce Gordon to Colorado a few years ago. nearly every component in the drive train is over 30 years old.

I had a spoke break while descending out of Yellowstone N.P.
I trued the wheel as best as I could and rode it gingerly for the next 2 days until I got to Jackson.

I found a great shop there (Hoffs) and had them do a total rebuild on it with stouter spokes. The upside being the bike also handled the load better for the rest of the trip. My wheels had not been built with touring in mind originally.

Hoffs Bicycle Repair by NBend, on Flickr

Another upside was that slower ride into Jackson was through some of the most scenic country Iíve ever seen.

Jackson Lake by NBend, on Flickr


Coulter Bay by NBend, on Flickr


Some really perky Tietons by NBend, on Flickr
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Old 08-29-19, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by davester View Post
...and before Jon's tool, there was a similar tool that can still be found on ebay that worked using fence posts or other convenient stationary objects. .
Ah, yes. The "Pocket Pro:"


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Bic...-/132795357516
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Old 08-29-19, 01:25 PM
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Here is this.

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...-crack-er.html



I think it is designed to pop off Uniglide lock rings, and apparently also helicomatic lock rings.

I have thought one could make a similar "wrench" for a freewheel or cassette, just adding a keyed wrench to it, rather than a chain.

On a wheel with 32 or 36 spokes, I broke a spoke, and re-trued the wheel with 1 less spoke to complete my ride.

I have straight pull spokes that I've also broken on the road, but they're easy to replace.
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Old 08-29-19, 01:30 PM
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If I were doing this, I would take the French approach. Put your weight on the (by definition stronger) front wheel with an appropriately designed rack (braze-ons! Tubus/Nitto!) and use a hub that has either keyhole flanges or wide enough flanges that you can get the spokes out without removing the freewheel. They do exist. A good rear Maxicar with a solid axle (no broken axles!!) can be had for less money than a modern boutique hub. Hell, if you look for a little while you'll find one for less than many things from Shimano. Lace it to an A319 or Rigida Sputnik with Sapim Force triple butted spokes, and replace spokes without taking the wheel off the bike.

Last edited by scarlson; 08-29-19 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 08-29-19, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
It happened to me only once, on this Roy Thame:



Since its quick release system consists of disengaging the brakes, I decided to true the wheel using the multi-tool I had with me, and switch my riding style to 'limp home mode'. Rode it like that for another few days without any problems.

Last year I bought some of these at a swap meet. NOS 'first aid spokes'. Haven't tried them yet.

Clever. I see a similar cable spoke repair doodad by FiberFix on Amazon. Apparently it's been discontinued but still available.
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Old 08-29-19, 01:39 PM
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Scarlson mentioned the "keyhole" feature in the maxi-car hub.

Very neat trick that lets you remove & replace drive side spokes without removng the FW.

However the Maxi-Cars have some other limitations.

Better I think to build a really bulletproof rear wheel. But that's just me

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Bainbridge Island, WA USA
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Old 08-29-19, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Clever. I see a similar cable spoke repair doodad by FiberFix on Amazon. Apparently it's been discontinued but still available.
I've used a Fiberfix. It did not work well at all. Aramid (kevlarģ) fibers don't like being put in shear, and my climber friends tell me that putting a knot in aramid rope reduces the strength by 80%, and that's exactly what the Fiberfix does with it. The cord is tied in a knot! Mine broke at that knot after less than a day of loaded touring, with the cord replacing a spoke in a 36 spoke wheel. Maybe I'm expecting too much. All the reviews on that Amazon page seem to be glowing.
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Old 08-29-19, 02:03 PM
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Another option is to either lace the Drive-Side with Z-Bend spokes, or at least carry some as spares (although it might be a hassle to remove broken standard J-Bend spokes depending on how they break).

https://www.wheelfanatyk.com/blog/z-spokes/



I haven't tried it myself. Perhaps one would need to insert the replacement spoke from the middle of the hub, no matter whether it is replacing an inbound or outbound spoke.
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Old 08-29-19, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Here is this.

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...-crack-er.html



I think it is designed to pop off Uniglide lock rings, and apparently also helicomatic lock rings.
No, not Helicomatic lockrings. Helicomatic freewheels use a separate splined lockring rather than a threaded sprocket to hold the freewheel in place:



But the special tool to remove the ring also has a bottle-opener and two different size spoke wrenches incorporated!
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Old 08-29-19, 03:38 PM
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^^^^^ To clarify, since the originator of the linked thread mentioned Helicomatic - She used that cracker tool made by a fellow member, on a Helicomatic freewheel, but not to remove the freewheel from the hub. That's what the above-pictured bottle-opener tool does. She needed to remove the smallest cog from the freewheel in order to disassemble it. A cracker tool like that would be just the ticket. It would also be a good choice, I imagine, for the early Suntour cassettes that used the smallest cog as the locking part. "Normally", you'd use two chain whips oriented in opposition for such a task.

I wonder if anyone still makes a version of the first-aid spoke shown above. I vaguely remember them from BITD; should have bought up a case of them at the time.....
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Old 08-29-19, 03:39 PM
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Only toured on a freewheel equipped wheel once but the one time I needed it I bent the wheel so badly that it wasn't a roadside fix.

Now I ride with a 36 hole cassette hub that I've threaded on the inside. So an M6 bolt and the skewer are enough to pop off the entire cassette assembly and even disassemble most of the hub.
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Old 08-29-19, 04:43 PM
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I did it this past May, and broke some spokes. I picked up my previously unridden/unseen bike at the beginning of the tour. I had brought with me a wider range freewheel and the correct freewheel tool, along with a socket and a light breaker bar. The freewheel I brought didn't fit (too wide), and I proceeded with the original--a Suntour. My new one was Shimano. The first spokes broke 20 some miles from the nearest bike shop and I managed to do some creative truing and limped in. I was able to buy the correct freewheel tool there, and get the spokes replaced too. And bought out his stock of new ones. The second time they broke was my last day, for a week, and I just rode it in. During that break, I replaced all of the drive side outer spokes(which had been damaged by a thrown chain) and had it professionally trued. For the final two days, I moved the bulk of the weight to the front and had to stop and re-true a few times each day.
Had it been a longer tour I would have replaced the wheel, or at least had it re-built.
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one general tip for when the exact hub cone is not readily available. discovered that the curvature of the bearing surface on the shimano 600 was a pretty good "skeleton key" for many applications. it would sometimes require a small change in ball size to make everything come out correctly.
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Old 08-29-19, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by scarlson View Post
I've used a Fiberfix. It did not work well at all. Aramid (kevlarģ) fibers don't like being put in shear, and my climber friends tell me that putting a knot in aramid rope reduces the strength by 80%, and that's exactly what the Fiberfix does with it. The cord is tied in a knot! Mine broke at that knot after less than a day of loaded touring, with the cord replacing a spoke in a 36 spoke wheel. Maybe I'm expecting too much. All the reviews on that Amazon page seem to be glowing.
Yup, breakage is a risk with any line, rope or cable, using any material including steel. That's why bends are preferable over common knots. But it's still a compromise.

Looks like it might be possible to recycle the prefabbed metal bits from the FiberFix kit and buy a spool of suitable line to rig up ones own replacements for touring.
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Old 08-30-19, 04:27 AM
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This used to concern me also, particularly when riding the lonely roads in Jamaica.

Last year, with six weeks to go in my Jamaica stay, the Bianchi broke a spoke in the rear wheel and (foolish me, had no spare spokes). Pooey-stinko! But fear not...

One spoke is not a big deal, if you use your head. I took out my spoke wrench and trued the wheel, as required. The wheel, even without that one spoke was not difficult to true. Then, for the next six weeks, I planned to ride VERY carefully. However...

After a few days, I was not so careful. After a week or so, I was zooming again but, to be honest, I did decide to stay away from the really rough roads or negotiate them with great care.

Put another way, you can get away and sometimes for a long time with a missing spoke. Just keep in mind that the problem is there, underneath you, and exercise caution.

So, when I return to Jamaica at the end of October, some spare spokes, perhaps even a spare wheel set will accompany me to the island...
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