Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Butyl reinforced rim tape - for a high tensioned durable 36h wheel

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Butyl reinforced rim tape - for a high tensioned durable 36h wheel

Old 08-28-19, 08:02 PM
  #51  
3alarmer
******
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 17,563

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 242 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15336 Post(s)
Liked 226 Times in 196 Posts
...after the third beer this will all make sense.
3alarmer is offline  
Likes For 3alarmer:
Old 08-28-19, 11:42 PM
  #52  
Darth Lefty 
Disco Infiltrator
 
Darth Lefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 9,913

Bikes: Schwinn Paramount, Salsa Timberjack, Diamondback Expert TG, Burley Samba

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1600 Post(s)
Liked 210 Times in 134 Posts
The ghosts are the key here, I think
Darth Lefty is offline  
Old 08-29-19, 12:24 AM
  #53  
redlude97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,487
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1831 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 85 Posts
Gorilla tape is probably the cheapest strongest easy to find option. Cut to your desired width to fit in the channel
redlude97 is offline  
Old 08-29-19, 08:27 AM
  #54  
trailangel
Senior Member
 
trailangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 3,831

Bikes: Schwinn Varsity

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1391 Post(s)
Liked 110 Times in 73 Posts
There is so much wrong here I feel like I've been duped by a troll.
OR,
Meth is really bad.
trailangel is offline  
Likes For trailangel:
Old 08-30-19, 11:43 AM
  #55  
Moe Zhoost
Half way there
 
Moe Zhoost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,496

Bikes: Many, and the list changes frequently

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 428 Post(s)
Liked 100 Times in 68 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
More imaginings with no basis in reality. None of these is true of a seated and pressurized tire:
  1. there is no movement between tire and rim or tube and rim
  2. at no time do gaps form between the tire and rim to let in debris
  3. a tire does not wander around on the rim after it is pressurized
I have probably close to 100,000 riding miles over the past 50 years and have never-ever encountered any variance with the above statements except for tubular tires, which are not (I assume) what the OP has.

I'm going for a ride now ... hope my head stops spinning.
Moe Zhoost is offline  
Likes For Moe Zhoost:
Old 08-31-19, 04:54 PM
  #56  
Mad Honk 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 269

Bikes: Trek 770, Trek 760, Schwinn Peloton, Patelli Professional, Othon Ochsner

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 28 Posts
So we find in post #47 that the real problem is the electric bike issue. 250 mm spokes of the largest diameter will result in higher spoke tensions due to the diameter size. And the over-sized hub only increases the torque applied to the rim and bead seat for the tyre. It isn't the "Ghosts" but the twisting effect from the torque applied to the wheel when using the E-bike function. These bikes are like mopeds in the way they work the tires and wheels. Rapid acceleration will allow a bead to slip and the tube can be twisted inside the casing causing failure. Especially when under-inflated. Just correct me folks but is a 622 rim a 29-er or a 700c rim? As ya know I don't know much about this stuff, but would love to be enlightened. Still drinking as per the recommendation of Three Alarmer, and it is starting to make sense.... Smiles, MH
Mad Honk is offline  
Old 08-31-19, 05:04 PM
  #57  
3alarmer
******
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 17,563

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 242 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15336 Post(s)
Liked 226 Times in 196 Posts
Originally Posted by Mad Honk View Post
Just correct me folks but is a 622 rim a 29-er or a 700c rim? As ya know I don't know much about this stuff, but would love to be enlightened. Still drinking as per the recommendation of Three Alarmer, and it is starting to make sense.... Smiles, MH

...it's both. I can build a decent wheel, but my real expertise continues to be drinking.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 08-31-19, 05:09 PM
  #58  
Mad Honk 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 269

Bikes: Trek 770, Trek 760, Schwinn Peloton, Patelli Professional, Othon Ochsner

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 28 Posts
As demonstrated by your current atavar! Smiles, MH
Mad Honk is offline  
Old 08-31-19, 07:33 PM
  #59  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 24,004

Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 525 Post(s)
Liked 244 Times in 180 Posts
Step #1 : Velox tape. In the right size for the rim channel. As if that hasn't been recommended enough in nauseating detail.

Step #2 : Proper tube inflation once tire and tube are re-mounted.

Step #3 : If punctures continue, try a thorn-proof tube. Hey, you've got e-assist, tell that hub that the weight weenie party is over, and it better get a Bafangin move on. Combined with the Velox tape, this really ought to be the end-all solution for all phantom punctures.

Step #4 : Be nice to others. Not everyone is as all-knowing as you are, even though you can't seem to figure out this problem.

Step #5 : If you can't be nice to others, fill the inside of the rim with roof sealant so it's nice and smooth and all the spoke nipples are covered. Then get the biggest knurling tool you can and knurl the rim bead seat so the tire can't slip. Once those two solutions don't work, hit the rim strategically with a 12 pound sledgehammer.

-Kurt
__________________

Last edited by cudak888; 08-31-19 at 07:39 PM.
cudak888 is offline  
Old 09-01-19, 12:50 PM
  #60  
adipe
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Step #1 : Velox tape. In the right size for the rim channel. As if that hasn't been recommended enough in nauseating detail.

Step #2 : Proper tube inflation once tire and tube are re-mounted.

Step #3 : If punctures continue, try a thorn-proof tube. Hey, you've got e-assist, tell that hub that the weight weenie party is over, and it better get a Bafangin move on. Combined with the Velox tape, this really ought to be the end-all solution for all phantom punctures.

Step #4 : Be nice to others. Not everyone is as all-knowing as you are, even though you can't seem to figure out this problem.

Step #5 : If you can't be nice to others, fill the inside of the rim with roof sealant so it's nice and smooth and all the spoke nipples are covered. Then get the biggest knurling tool you can and knurl the rim bead seat so the tire can't slip. Once those two solutions don't work, hit the rim strategically with a 12 pound sledgehammer.

-Kurt
1. velox is not available. not here, not now, not the exact width. and i wanted a fix that would be ready, with no more delay than just working the size to be cut with scissors etc. someone told me (i remember it being a PM) that i do not need to "sacrifice" an inner tube... it was already useless. anyone could be having a useless 26" tube in their homes, either cut or patched. mine was dunlop so it was really useless.
2. i had the 2" tire inflated to more than 40 psi when the last mishap occurred.
3. i had no tubes other than normal ones available to me unless i had to wait for delivery and pay for it.
4. and 5. if you can't be nice to me and understand why i was upset and nervous to have ridicule spamming here then i might invite you as well to try tasting your own medicine. do you choose to have me guilty of protesting when people are lynching me? some went on to claim i invented problems, that i am delusional etc. but here you are telling me "as all-knowing as you are". so... which one is it? i certainly had the tube punctured at the rim tape, more than once in less than a month.

be nice to others even when they abuse you, right?
even when they claim you can't have problems they don't have, right?

i asked for objective advice for this setup (1st post) and was not interested in alternatives unless the setup cannot work. it does and had proven so later on. if i knew this from the beginning i would have not started the thread and had not bothered all these folks with a new thread that had been given such a name so that folks could avoid it if they knew nothing about high tension or about extra layers of tape. i never intended to catch people up in a new thread with the intention to mess up with them.

in the end i explained why tubes chaff against the tape. if you got the thing that the hub i use could be significantly increase (+40Nm more exactly) the torque from pedaling - not bafang - then why don't others get it and stop posting mean and ridiculing comments? am i in the wrong to be upset by other people being ignorant and wanting to prove me wrong when i'm not?

i received ridicule even when i am right to say that tires can have considerable dynamic movement when rim tape is not thick enough to hold the tire and that a symptom is having a tire that ignores your rim's lateral true which in my case is less than 0.1mm total runout.

all i asked in the 1st post was for people "in the know" - not amateur mechanics - to give me information like "this thing will not work for these reasons" or "this thing of yours will work because of these reasons" or "this thing i know to work with tubeless ghetto" etc.

sorry for being more rational than the people who claimed i invent problems that do not exist and therefore being guilty of the ad hominem thing by calling me crazy, they certainly weren't nice. in the meantime i figured out things, explained my judgment but still.. people accuse me of being a troll when i made no fun of anybody, just tried to stop crap - later ignore it - from ignorant folks and ad hominem remarks.

and i am nice to people, just not to everyone. i don't like ridicule thrown at me from ignorant people and i don't need to be given alternatives that are not available to me. and i had not asked for alternatives, i only asked if and why this would work. crap does go inside the wheel, especially in wet/winter; tubes do happen to get nasty punctures by split at the rim tape. and not everyone has my setup and ease in getting the rear wheel off etc.

the most important thing i had to figure out and would had been nice to receive as advise was the amount of extra width (climb) the butyl layer could or should have.

so i'll just say this in the end. this thread can be ignored by people reading it or posting in it - unless they are interested in this butyl extra layer setup. i can now say only this: this thread/topic can very well be closed.
adipe is offline  
Old 09-01-19, 02:51 PM
  #61  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 24,004

Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 525 Post(s)
Liked 244 Times in 180 Posts
Originally Posted by adipe View Post
1. velox is not available. not here, not now, not the exact width. and i wanted a fix that would be ready, with no more delay than just working the size to be cut with scissors etc. someone told me (i remember it being a PM) that i do not need to "sacrifice" an inner tube... it was already useless. anyone could be having a useless 26" tube in their homes, either cut or patched. mine was dunlop so it was really useless.
2. i had the 2" tire inflated to more than 40 psi when the last mishap occurred.
3. i had no tubes other than normal ones available to me unless i had to wait for delivery and pay for it.
4. and 5. if you can't be nice to me and...
  1. If not Velox, how about Zefal? Or any sort of weaved cotton tape? Disagreements in tech aside, perhaps we've all made the mistake of assuming your location and accessibility (especially as I haven't heard of Dunlop being used for bike tires since the 1960's in North America/Europe either). Where are you?
  2. 40psi is very low for a 26x2" balloon tire on an e-bike. Though I've had less opportunity to service e-bikes than I'd like and can't speak from experience, Mad Honk's theory of a slipping tire case and tube sounds very probably at that tire pressure. I'd take them up to 60-65psi, at minimum.
  3. Are you servicing this bike for a customer? If not, don't you think it's worth it to invest in the thornproof tube to save you all the trouble? You're going to spend the cost of the tube and delivery eventually if you continue to puncture other tubes. This reasoning also applies to the Velox tape.
As for the rest of the yaddada-yaddada: There are very intelligent replies provided to you here, by people with many years of experience. None of them initially started as a personal attack; they were disagreements of theory. You are the one who made it a personal issue.

Reap what you sow.

FYI, this is what Velox (or any cotton rim tape - in this case, it's Zefal) looks like when installed properly on a single-wall rim. The tube doesn't care about the uneven surface, and so long as the tire seating area is clear, everything is fine. It's not quite perfectly seated, but the pressure from the tube will help everything find its place. Granted, I would hope that the e-bike has double-wall, but from your description, it doesn't sound so.




-Kurt
__________________

Last edited by cudak888; 09-01-19 at 03:08 PM.
cudak888 is offline  
Likes For cudak888:
Old 09-01-19, 03:23 PM
  #62  
Moe Zhoost
Half way there
 
Moe Zhoost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,496

Bikes: Many, and the list changes frequently

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 428 Post(s)
Liked 100 Times in 68 Posts
@adipe - You've certainly had a rough time with this post. I'm glad you have figured things out and are now back riding. Good luck to you, mate.
Moe Zhoost is offline  
Old 09-01-19, 04:50 PM
  #63  
velopig
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 18 Posts
Playing the victim is a great spin to what has already been a very entertaining thread.
velopig is offline  
Old 09-01-19, 06:14 PM
  #64  
Mad Honk 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 269

Bikes: Trek 770, Trek 760, Schwinn Peloton, Patelli Professional, Othon Ochsner

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 28 Posts
Alright Velopigy,
I'll take ownership of the victim role cause I really don't understand the differences of the 29-er thing. Around here we have wheel sizes that are actually 29" and wheel sizes of 700c, and wheels sizes of 27". So I wonder about what the differences of these wheels are and the way folks describe them. I remember folks calling 700c rims as 28 inch wheels, which clearly is incorrect. So yer right I am a knowledge victim here. Help a poor brother out here, Smiles, MH
Mad Honk is offline  
Old 09-01-19, 06:43 PM
  #65  
shelbyfv
Senior Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,585
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1227 Post(s)
Liked 223 Times in 151 Posts
Originally Posted by Mad Honk View Post
Around here we have wheel sizes that are actually 29" and wheel sizes of 700c....
Did someone tell you what the difference is? I'm curious too.
shelbyfv is offline  
Old 09-01-19, 07:14 PM
  #66  
ThermionicScott 
hungry
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 19,028

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2286 Post(s)
Liked 260 Times in 195 Posts
Originally Posted by Mad Honk View Post
Alright Velopigy,
I'll take ownership of the victim role cause I really don't understand the differences of the 29-er thing. Around here we have wheel sizes that are actually 29" and wheel sizes of 700c, and wheels sizes of 27". So I wonder about what the differences of these wheels are and the way folks describe them. I remember folks calling 700c rims as 28 inch wheels, which clearly is incorrect. So yer right I am a knowledge victim here. Help a poor brother out here, Smiles, MH
I didn't think he was referring to you MH, but...

28" was the original designation for what we now call 700C, so I wouldn't call it incorrect, archaic at worst. The only difference with 29er is that you're mounting a big (generally 2" or more) tire on the rim, and the rim is often wider to match.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 09-01-19, 07:15 PM
  #67  
Hermes
Version 3.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 11,559

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 290 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 606 Post(s)
Liked 123 Times in 91 Posts
This thread is closed.

Last edited by Hermes; 09-01-19 at 10:12 PM.
Hermes is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
masi61
General Cycling Discussion
4
10-01-19 06:17 PM
sdmc530
Bicycle Mechanics
14
06-13-19 11:32 AM
JeffOYB
Bicycle Mechanics
16
08-03-17 08:55 AM
tmh657
Bicycle Mechanics
2
06-12-16 09:54 AM
daveed
Bicycle Mechanics
12
12-02-15 01:25 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.