650b or Wide 700c?
#26
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,503
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7348 Post(s)
Liked 2,471 Times
in
1,435 Posts
I've used the wrong size tubes many times. I usually get away with it, but change them when you get a chance.
What pressure did you use? Do some experiments with pressure. You might get away with less than you think. But it requires more frequent topping up.
What pressure did you use? Do some experiments with pressure. You might get away with less than you think. But it requires more frequent topping up.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#27
Banned
Schwalbe carries tyres as well. Not all variants are available in (-584 or 650B).
#28
Banned
https://www.bike24.de/1.php?content=...by=2;pitems=20
That's what you're looking for as they ship to the US with a decent fee and remove the VAT for non-EU customers. You might have to pay duty but I haven't received anything in the US in a while.
Those are all of the Winter tyres in 27,5 Zoll (or 650B in the US).
However, be warned that bike24.de was bought by Wiggle (depending on what you think of them).
That's what you're looking for as they ship to the US with a decent fee and remove the VAT for non-EU customers. You might have to pay duty but I haven't received anything in the US in a while.
Those are all of the Winter tyres in 27,5 Zoll (or 650B in the US).
However, be warned that bike24.de was bought by Wiggle (depending on what you think of them).
#30
Banned
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,248
Bikes: This list got too long: several ‘bents, an urban utility e-bike, and a dahon D7 that my daughter has absconded with.
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 363 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times
in
48 Posts
#32
Banned
I find this whole thread fascinating as people are trying to hyper dial-in their rides. I do this with my house but my bicycle is just a utilitarian tool.
#33
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,503
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7348 Post(s)
Liked 2,471 Times
in
1,435 Posts
You love your clothes. We love our bikes. Not so strange.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Likes For noglider:
#34
Banned
I don't think it's strange at all.
It was more of an afternoon pontification about how do we, as humans, end up selecting what we really care about? Is it instinctual, is it environmental? Just something that came up when staring out the window.
Clothing is about quality, uniqueness and patterns.
I can afford nice clothes but not a bicycle of the same quality, so perhaps that's why I consider it utilitarian. Would I be different if I made more money?
More pontification while I watch the sea roll in from the lab window.
It was more of an afternoon pontification about how do we, as humans, end up selecting what we really care about? Is it instinctual, is it environmental? Just something that came up when staring out the window.
Clothing is about quality, uniqueness and patterns.
I can afford nice clothes but not a bicycle of the same quality, so perhaps that's why I consider it utilitarian. Would I be different if I made more money?
More pontification while I watch the sea roll in from the lab window.
#35
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,629
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3871 Post(s)
Liked 2,568 Times
in
1,579 Posts
#36
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,503
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7348 Post(s)
Liked 2,471 Times
in
1,435 Posts
I gotcha @acidfast7. Thanks.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#38
Banned
#39
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Queens, NY for now...
Posts: 1,515
Bikes: 82 Lotus Unique, 86 Lotus Legend, 88 Basso Loto, 88 Basso PR, 89 Basso PR, 96 Bianchi CDI, 2013 Deda Aegis, 2019 Basso Diamante SV
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 943 Post(s)
Liked 172 Times
in
113 Posts
Yesterday I started out with about 70psi, and it felt nice. Slight bulging in the rear, but it didn't look excessive (I weigh about 165lbs). The sidewall just said 90psi, but I assume that's the max? In any case, I still plan to do some research on popular pressures for that size. I'm sure there are plenty of threads about it here on the forums.
Some before and after pics (no comments on the slightly rusty chain, please, this was pre-clean and lube):
Likes For robertorolfo:
#40
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,629
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3871 Post(s)
Liked 2,568 Times
in
1,579 Posts
That's what we homeowners hope for, at least. I'd be nervous to own in bubblicious places like Australia or Toronto.
#41
Banned
Or the Chinese go poor or force proper capital controls, which won't happen either.
#42
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Queens, NY for now...
Posts: 1,515
Bikes: 82 Lotus Unique, 86 Lotus Legend, 88 Basso Loto, 88 Basso PR, 89 Basso PR, 96 Bianchi CDI, 2013 Deda Aegis, 2019 Basso Diamante SV
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 943 Post(s)
Liked 172 Times
in
113 Posts
A couple more pics in the wild. Thanks again everyone for recommending this, rather than the 650b conversion. It was definitely the way to go.
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 14,744
Bikes: Yes
Mentioned: 525 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3230 Post(s)
Liked 3,868 Times
in
1,439 Posts
Clearly you got good advice and followed it. I'm glad it worked out for you. I've got a lot of garage space and like to tinker with old bikes, so I can offer some first hand experience relevant to the original question in case anyone is curious. (Spoiler alert: it pretty much leads to the conclusion already reached.)
I've got two pretty similar bikes -- a 1972 Motobecane Grand Record and a 1975 Motobecane Grand Jubilé -- that I sunk some money into. The Grand Record fits 700x32 tires with fenders. The Grand Jubilé fits 650x42 with fenders, though I'm currently only running 650x38. I had cantilever studs brazed on to the Grand Jubilé so brake reach isn't an issue.
My impressions: I'm sorry I don't do impressions. My interest is in bicycles.
Seriously though, the 700x32 Conti CP 4 Seasons tires on the Grand Record give a very comfortable ride. Over any kind of tolerably decent pavement, including chipseal, it's very nice. I wouldn't have any complaints at all. The 650x38 Panaracer Pari Moto tires on the Grand Jubilé, however, are really in a different class in more ways than one. First, I would note that these tires are incredibly supple. I have socks that aren't as supple as these tires. The result of that suppleness is that despite there width they roll like a dream. (Yes, I drank the Jan Heine Kool Aid.) So they don't really give anything up on pavement. Where they really shine though, is on gravel. They soak it up and soften it. It's very nice.
One other thing you should know is that with 650b the tire choices are very limited. The choices that are available are generally excellent for the purpose, but there are only a handful of options that I would even seriously consider. One thing the really good choices have in common is that they don't have spectacular puncture protection. The philosophy of the 650B true believers is that wider tires by virtue of being wide and used at lower pressures are simply less puncture prone than narrower tires at higher pressures. This is true to some extent, but as everyone on this forum knows commuting tends to require a much higher degree of puncture resistance than most other riding. If you're out on a recreational road ride and you have to ride through an unavoidable minefield of glass, it's a freak occurrence and you shrug it off. If you're commuting and that happens, it's Tuesday. Right? So the wide tire thing really does work for the kind of flats you get riding gravel, for instance, (except for the kind of sharp gravel that cuts your sidewall). For typical suburban bike lane debris, not so much.
So, circling back around to the original question and the same conclusion, as promised, I think for commuting if you can fit a 700x32 tire or bigger that's a better choice than 650B. On the other hand, building a 650B bike was a lot of fun and it's great to have one in the stable if you have room.
__________________
My Bikes
My Bikes
Likes For Andy_K:
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,863
Bikes: too many of all kinds
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1147 Post(s)
Liked 415 Times
in
335 Posts
Wow Andy, thanks. Good thoughts!
I had the Pari-motos high on my list for a while – but the reviews mentioned how fragile it is, and I didn’t want that for commuting/gravel. I’m on 4-seasons (32mm). Your description makes them sound like the poor man’s Compass (Renee Herse) alternative (and a lot different than the Paselas)?
Nice on the braze on mounts. That is an interesting option I might have to try. I can’t go bigger than 27mm on my old butted steel bike (Allez).
I get more flats with wider tires. Partially its because they have more tread.
Objects on the ground don’t give me flats. Its junk on the ground that my front tire picks up and throws at the rear tire that gives me flats. The bigger tires, with knobbs, are more likely to grab something, throw it at the rear, where it gets caught and lodged. Could be more because of the tread than the tire size though.
I had the Pari-motos high on my list for a while – but the reviews mentioned how fragile it is, and I didn’t want that for commuting/gravel. I’m on 4-seasons (32mm). Your description makes them sound like the poor man’s Compass (Renee Herse) alternative (and a lot different than the Paselas)?
Nice on the braze on mounts. That is an interesting option I might have to try. I can’t go bigger than 27mm on my old butted steel bike (Allez).
I get more flats with wider tires. Partially its because they have more tread.
Objects on the ground don’t give me flats. Its junk on the ground that my front tire picks up and throws at the rear tire that gives me flats. The bigger tires, with knobbs, are more likely to grab something, throw it at the rear, where it gets caught and lodged. Could be more because of the tread than the tire size though.
#45
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 14,744
Bikes: Yes
Mentioned: 525 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3230 Post(s)
Liked 3,868 Times
in
1,439 Posts
I had the Pari-motos high on my list for a while – but the reviews mentioned how fragile it is, and I didn’t want that for commuting/gravel. I’m on 4-seasons (32mm). Your description makes them sound like the poor man’s Compass (Renee Herse) alternative (and a lot different than the Paselas)?
I don't think I mentioned that I'm actually on my second set of Pari Motos. The first pair developed a goose egg on the front tire that I noticed when I rebuilt the bike after it was powder coated. The rear was pretty cut up, and I wanted to switch to skinwalls anyway, so I just shelved them. That was after only about 750 miles. Have I sold you on them yet? I got a very good deal on my second set. I plan to switch to 650x42 Baby Shoe Pass tires at some point.
__________________
My Bikes
My Bikes
#46
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,503
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7348 Post(s)
Liked 2,471 Times
in
1,435 Posts
I have a Lemond racing bike, and it won't even take 700x28 tires. A kind BFer gave me a pair of inexpensive 650b wheels and tires to try. They fit on the Lemond. They have Pari-Moto 650x38 tires. They barely just fit. In fact, I think they've stretched and are threatening not to fit anymore, so I'm not sure how I feel about all this. But I love the ride. I go over a bump and ask myself, "Did I just go over a bump?" It's fun.
The conversion was super easy. I just put long reach Tektro dual-pivots on, and presto. I haven't done the gearing yet. The rear wheel has an old fashioned freewheel type hub with a 7-speed freewheel. The drivetrain until now was a Campagnolo 2x10. Oddly, the 10-speed shifter works on the 7-speed freewheel. On some shifts, I have to click twice, but the whole operation is noiseless.
I might move these wheels over to my McLean which willingly takes 28mm tires. The clearances are not nearly as tight. Then I'll make a decision and rebuild the rear wheel properly.
As I said earlier, I considered going to 650b on my Raleigh Super Course, but I'm going with 700x37, and I expect that will work well.
The conversion was super easy. I just put long reach Tektro dual-pivots on, and presto. I haven't done the gearing yet. The rear wheel has an old fashioned freewheel type hub with a 7-speed freewheel. The drivetrain until now was a Campagnolo 2x10. Oddly, the 10-speed shifter works on the 7-speed freewheel. On some shifts, I have to click twice, but the whole operation is noiseless.
I might move these wheels over to my McLean which willingly takes 28mm tires. The clearances are not nearly as tight. Then I'll make a decision and rebuild the rear wheel properly.
As I said earlier, I considered going to 650b on my Raleigh Super Course, but I'm going with 700x37, and I expect that will work well.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#47
Disco Infiltrator
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,446
Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3126 Post(s)
Liked 2,105 Times
in
1,369 Posts
It's turned out that bigger tires are a bigger winner for me than switching wheel sizes. I've long favored this idea that you can have two disk wheelsets at 700c/650b, or 29er/27.5+, even before it was au courant. But in practice as long as one wheelset isn't broken I'm probably not going to buy another.
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
Genesis 49:16-17
#48
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Queens, NY for now...
Posts: 1,515
Bikes: 82 Lotus Unique, 86 Lotus Legend, 88 Basso Loto, 88 Basso PR, 89 Basso PR, 96 Bianchi CDI, 2013 Deda Aegis, 2019 Basso Diamante SV
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 943 Post(s)
Liked 172 Times
in
113 Posts
I have a Lemond racing bike, and it won't even take 700x28 tires. A kind BFer gave me a pair of inexpensive 650b wheels and tires to try. They fit on the Lemond. They have Pari-Moto 650x38 tires. They barely just fit. In fact, I think they've stretched and are threatening not to fit anymore, so I'm not sure how I feel about all this. But I love the ride. I go over a bump and ask myself, "Did I just go over a bump?" It's fun.
The conversion was super easy. I just put long reach Tektro dual-pivots on, and presto. I haven't done the gearing yet. The rear wheel has an old fashioned freewheel type hub with a 7-speed freewheel. The drivetrain until now was a Campagnolo 2x10. Oddly, the 10-speed shifter works on the 7-speed freewheel. On some shifts, I have to click twice, but the whole operation is noiseless.
I might move these wheels over to my McLean which willingly takes 28mm tires. The clearances are not nearly as tight. Then I'll make a decision and rebuild the rear wheel properly.
As I said earlier, I considered going to 650b on my Raleigh Super Course, but I'm going with 700x37, and I expect that will work well.
The conversion was super easy. I just put long reach Tektro dual-pivots on, and presto. I haven't done the gearing yet. The rear wheel has an old fashioned freewheel type hub with a 7-speed freewheel. The drivetrain until now was a Campagnolo 2x10. Oddly, the 10-speed shifter works on the 7-speed freewheel. On some shifts, I have to click twice, but the whole operation is noiseless.
I might move these wheels over to my McLean which willingly takes 28mm tires. The clearances are not nearly as tight. Then I'll make a decision and rebuild the rear wheel properly.
As I said earlier, I considered going to 650b on my Raleigh Super Course, but I'm going with 700x37, and I expect that will work well.
As for the ride, I'm really liking it, although I still want to try some different tire pressures. The ride is certainly more comfy over the city streets, but maybe not quite as night and day an improvement as I expected. I also need to do something about that horrible "comfort" saddle that is anything but.