gmilton

..not. I am growing increasingly unhappy with the results of my very expensive bike-fitting - I will not name names, but the frame dimensions they provided effectively rule out any stock bike commercially available - in approximate number, 600mm stack, 200 mm headtube, 570 mm top tube, 492mm seat tube [high, wide and short] Now I'm about 5'8.5" and fairly regularly proportioned (though I've lost an inch or two due to age). Every bike shop I walk into pegs me as a 54cm frame - these specs put me on a 56-57mm - I am ok on a frame this size (current ride is a 57) but feel on the bike rather than in it. Their response? Custom is the only way to go for a guy like you. Just bias, or a sales tactic I wonder. Should I believe them or the LBS? Or is bike fitting just a pathway to distinctions without a difference for the average rider?

berner

I'm 5'7" tall and ride a bike nominally sized as 54 and the effective top tube is also 54mm. I'm happy with the level of comfort on this bike. The recommendation for you sounds too big. I would say a size 54 with a longer stem than I need would work fine. I use a size 90mm stem but may go to a 100mm one this year. Good luck.

CliffordK

You will find a lot of arguments about "fit".

It is my belief that when on the bike, there are 3 critical measurements (actually, the crank position is a reference point).

• Seat position.
• Crank position (also crank length)
• Handlebar position.

There is a lot of talk about standover height, but you really don't need much clearance. I'm happy to ride a 60cm frame at 5'10. Once I'm on the bike, there are the 3 critical settings above. Off the bike, I have a habit of sitting on the top tube.

Frame sizes may be a bit ambiguous with the sloping top tubes, but most major manufacturers post their frame specs, at least for current models.

So, comparing a 54cm frame and a 57cm frame.

Assume the TopTube and stack are 3cm different between the two.

If the seat tube angle is the same, just raise the seat, and it will come out to the same position between the two. Angles may be slightly different, so you may need to compensate with forward/back position of the seat, or the seatpost offset.

So, with a 3cm longer TT, simply shorten or lengthen the stem by 3cm.
Likewise, with a 3cm taller headtube, raise or lower the stem by 3cm (longer steer tube + spacers, or change the angle of the stem).
You really only run into problems with a stem length shorter than about 40mm or longer than 130mm or so.

Anyway, I'd go to the manufacture website for the 54cm frame, and download the frame specs.

Then start drawing on the diagram your fit specs, and just see what you will need for a stem, stem height, and seatpost offset, etc.

Some of the "comfort" bikes may have taller head tubes (which, as above you can compensate for, but the tall HT doesn't hurt).

gmilton

Well I'm a bit taller and sort of between sizes but I tried a domane 56cm, top tube at the margins of too high, and still would have needed maximum spacers (20-25mm) plus extreme up angle stem - and still felt as laid out as my current ride (57cm) - beyond the point where I felt the difference was worth it. I cannot believe there is nothing in the market that can be more than just "made to work" with a fairly normal body (174cm - 5'8.5" hgt, 32.25" inseam, wgt 172) - custom steel is an option I guess...provided all the steelies are not just stuck in a nostalgia trip.

I'v done the homework on the frame specs - tt length runs much shorter for the 54s than the fitter's spec - ~540cm, the headtube and stack are where the ##s really are out - I'd need 35mm of spacers/stem rise to make my numbers on a roubaix for example, and think that set-up will be too ugly to live with.

Is it worth it to start fresh with a new fitter for a 'second opinion'? or forget them entirely and go on LBS tweaks and personal feel?

CliffordK

There are a few manufacturers that make custom Carbon Fiber frames too. Parlee, for example does full custom carbon builds.

"Carbon" shows up quite a bit on this list.
Directory Of Custom American Handmade Road Bike Frame Builders |

Other common custom building materials include Titanium. Also, a few very high end steel & stainless alloys. And some of them are unbelievably lightweight.

However, I'm not sure I'd call setting the seat in the right spot, and getting the proper stem a kluge. Usually setup is part of a LBS selling a high-end bike (they may not do a full configuration for a demo ride). Uncut steer tubes are often quite long for maximum configuration flexibility. Your demo bike probably didn't have a full uncut stem.

A super-high bar position may be a flexibility issue... and may be something that would change with more time on the bike. You might compensate for a high bar somewhat by using a shorter stem. Nonetheless, using a tall steertube/stem, you may choose to lower it after a few thousand miles. If you use a tall headtube, you may not have that option (easily).

And, really, there is nothing wrong with using a tall steer tube or stem (up to a point). Keep in mind that a road bike isn't an upright bike.

CliffordK

You might enjoy reading this about steel.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...l-cycling.html
worldsteel | Our stories: Steel returns to professional cycling

gmilton

There are some builders out there who work in steel (and a few of note here the NE) and no shortage of places to drop $$$$ - which is why I have been scouring about for a commercial model. I'm just looking for a better fitting ride - and thought I had been smart getting a "fitting" - as it is I am less clear about what to do

kingston 

Try punching your measurements into a fit calculator.
Sounds like you're not very flexible which would tend to point you in the direction of a bigger frame with a shorter stem.

gmilton

Fit calc works very well if you have someone to take the measurements I am sure - however no one is available, and what is the result? A full set of frame specs or only "you belong on a 58'". I dont know whether I am not very flexible or what suggest that - I dont believe I am abnormally so in any case. If I understand, you are suggesting a more upright riding position, with which I am in accord (vs a race-oriented position) - my interests fall toward the sportif/endurance category so I'm not looking for a hybrid with drop bars. But you highlight the principal issue of my OP - you suggest a larger frame, others, looking at same specs, suggest a smaller one. Net - is custom the only way to go?

Tim_Iowa

It sounds like you're getting a fit for a "performance" bike. The Trek Emonda is designed for an aggressive, racy posture with the drop bars below the saddle.

Is that the type of riding you want to do?
Can you ride in that aggressive posture?

Maybe you should go to a different type of bike, or a different shop, and get another opinion?

gmilton

Maybe I was a bit unclear - endurance/sportif/gran fondo type riding - 40- 60 mi clubs rides typical - so not a racer but need sustainable pwr & tempo. @ 69+ not as flexible as I was, so fit is more critical (less ability to adapt to a less-than OK geometry) - I really am wondering about the credibility of that 57cm TT spec. (to your point, the models i've been looking at inc domane/roubaix/synapse/bmc GF-01/Defy)

kingston 

This is what you get back from the fit calculator (for your measurements of course, these are mine):


With all the framesets on the market today, I can't imagine you need a custom one, but only you can make that decision. If you can't get upright enough on the framesets you are looking at, you may need to look at other framesets.

gmilton

Thanks very very much - this is very worthwhile, what I had hoped and a lot more than I expected - I will run these numbers at home and see how they compare to the bike fitters specs. And I am in full agreement with your observation - apart from pros and those with major anatomical issues, a custom seems a bit of a connoisseur's choice - not to knock it at all, but on a cost-benefit basis, marginal gains for an average rider would be my guess.

kingston 

The thing I find particularly illuminating about the fit calculator is that there is no single "correct" fit. In fact, there's a pretty big range. The frame has to be in the ballpark, but after that, it's all about dialing it in to what's comfortable for you.

ksryder

Stems come in different sizes and angles, so it's not like you necessarily need a million spacers.

tangerineowl

Eddy Merckx Mourenx 69 'XL' :-
- 610 stack (saves you a spacer)
- 211 headtube
- 576 top tube

^
those are the 2017 geo figures.

That model has been out for a couple of years, so you might want to check last year's, and the year's before, geo figures, as they (Merckx frames) do change very slightly across the model years.

CliffordK

You're talking about a $5K Custom bike.

If money grows on trees... then go for it.

If not, hunt for maybe a 54 to 56 cm USED bike with sloping TT that comes close to what you want. Customize the stem and seat position until you're sure you are happy with the fit. Perhaps even buy a new fork with an uncut steer tube.Hopefully you have the basic seat position, bar position and Bottom Bracket position from your fit.

You might decide the stem angle isn't aesthetically pleasing, but consider this as your practice bike.

Put 1000+ miles on the bike, and tweak it until you are satisfied. A couple of used stems are cheap compared to your custom build. You might be able to convince your LBS to trade them with spares.

Then go and buy your custom, forever ride.

gmilton

Thanks for the lead on the Merckx - I will investigate - and yes my money tree is on the endangered species list.

Carbonfiberboy 

OTOH I know people who have had custom bikes built and there's a heckuva lot more to it than the measurements. What you get is a bike you've never test ridden, with unknown physical characteristics and which may be hard to sell for 1/3 what you paid for it. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. My advice is to buy something you've ridden.

I don't buy anything that I haven't ridden on the shop trainer, different stems and my own saddle swapped in, until I get the fit I and the fitter are good with. Then ride it outside on some bad roadway. Maybe bring your own wheels, too. That's why you buy from the LBS instead of online. If your usual LBS won't do that, find one that will and take your business there.

Edit: I should have mentioned some of the problems: understeer (going off the road!), oversteer (washout), and just plain doesn't put the power on the road. Back in the steel/ti days, many in my group went custom. Most of them don't ride those bikes anymore. They all ride stock carbon. There's one guy who still rides his stock ti Lightspeed.

CliffordK

At this point, I don't buy anything that doesn't come as a pile of parts.

Carbonfiberboy 

That's a good way to go too, if you know what the parts should be. I should go out there and finish rebuilding a wheel for the rain bike I built years ago from a pile of Nashbar parts ($120 frame) and which worked out great. It's raining. Maybe I will.

79pmooney

I see this as two different issues which should be kept separate. The fit. Is it right? You will only know that by riding that position long enough to know. And second, the bike. Number one is that the bike should fit you. (If the fitter got it right, that would be the bike he suggested.)

So far you have a couple hundred dollars invested. I would strongly suggest you spend less that a thousand to get a (probably used) bike to confirm the fit numbers. At that price, going to an ugly/wrong seatpost or stem to dial the bike in isn't a big deal. Only after you know that fit is good or you have evolved to a position that is just plain "right" should you start thinking about spending big money. (When the bike is right, it feels just plain good to get on and ride. Hard efforts are fun. Nothing detracts from simply riding. Now, if you get to that point but your used bike leaves you with too much weight on the front wheel, handling you don't like, toes that seriously hit the front tire, etc., now, finally, you are at a place to consider spending more bucks to get those issues right.

Most of the bikes out there require I run a stem most would think is ridiculous. When I first started looking for a ti bike, I wrote a computer program to quickly take brochure frame specs and tell me what stem I would need and what the weight balance on the tires would be. (By this time I had many miles on bikes that fit, first an unusual bike I raced in the '70s and then a commuter with a 180mm stem.) I found every production ti bike out there was a real compromise; a very expensive compromise. The ti bike went on the back burner. A few years later I landed a sweet job. Withing two months I had a custom ti on order. No regrets whatsoever. The extra probably $1000 I don't regret at all. The bike is a compromise, but the fit is not. And the compromises I choose so the bike would do what I wanted it to do. None were forced on me.

I have now acquired several bikes that are not compromise fits and do various things well but none are off-the-shelf bikes. Oh, the frames once were - a not very special early '80s Trek that serves as an excellent winter/rain/city fix gear and a 10 years older Raleigh Competition set up as a grave grinder (and no decals so it can go in town as a repainted beater - a Reynolds 531 beater).

But to get back to my point: I had my fit dialed in before I started acquiring these bikes. I knew what I was looking for. And I had thousands of miles on bikes that fit.

The fit is what is important. How you get there, less so.

Ben

gmilton

^this - so I have settled on the domane frame - the size is well within range (I fall somewhere between high 54 to low 56) and I've ridden one a bit and found it comfortable - what took place in the interim is a call to the bike fit group at a different location - the guy was extremely helpful and had remote access to my data - turns out the first fitter had given me "specs" for a custom design, not a nominal set, so unsurprising I was unable to find anything that remotely matched (the Merckx line which this firm actually sells, uses a very non-standard geometry which won't really fit very well).

My take: Bike fitting worth every penny - has made my current ride much more enjoyable and will enable me to get a nice pile of parts and put together something I could not otherwise afford and without having to swap out perfectly fine gear to get the fit right. - depending on how far I go, ( $1800 (Ultegra/105) - $2400 (Di2) - ex wheelset - add in another $750) end up with a bike that new would run upside of $5-6K (& the putting together part is both fun and educational for children of all ages)

Custom frame: A wish-list option some day. Some of the steel frames are works of art, but will have to be a forever bike as no one with any sense would buy another's custom (ID twins excepted - maybe.) More to the point, I agreee 79pMooney - a custom is the last bike you should buy, not the first. Riding position and riding style will evolve with improvements in strength and flexibility - esp for one new or returning to th sport after a prolonged absence. By the time I reach my middle years (75) I should be ready...

noglider 

That advice you got is really strange to me. Modern bikes are extremely adjustable. I can't see needing a custom frame. I can see wanting one but not needing one.

gmilton

That's where I started and where I end up. Custom is great if you're in love with the artisanship, mandatory if you make your living [competitively] on a bike, or 3+ standard deviations from the norm, otherwise e.g.o./imho.