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Letter to the editor about "aggressive and narcissistic bicyclists"

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Letter to the editor about "aggressive and narcissistic bicyclists"

Old 05-21-20, 07:50 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I realize she's over-generalizing....
...and she is upset with an axe to grind. I am generally with you until:
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
A lot of you are just engaging in shooting the messenger (the letter writer) on this thread.
Imho the "shots" are requested... it is the way she is presenting the problem. The language is high-handed and condescending... haughtily insulting. Had she appealed to our better natures, she probably would find a receptive audience here....
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Old 05-21-20, 08:14 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Digger Goreman View Post
...and she is upset with an axe to grind. I am generally with you until:

Imho the "shots" are requested... it is the way she is presenting the problem. The language is high-handed and condescending... haughtily insulting. Had she appealed to our better natures, she probably would find a receptive audience here....
Well, IMHO, except for the word "breed" and the gratuitous reference to lycra she was pretty spot on, and all I'm getting out of this is an impression that a bunch of people on here are pretty thin-skinned.

Also, she wasn't aiming at us, she's trying to get law enforcement to issue tickets.
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Old 05-21-20, 08:43 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by _ForceD_ View Post
The following letter to the editor appeared in yesterday's Newport (RI) Daily News. The paper serves five southern RI towns in Newport County...the area where 95% of my cycling is done. I may be one of the perps referred to. Although I haven't heard any walkers yell "distance" to me. And, I always do my best (especially during COVID) to give walkers a wide berth. (I was going to post this in the special coronavirus thread. But it appears to have gone away.)

Dan
-------------------------
Bicyclists need to be more courteous

Walking in Middletown has become more and more treacherous, as people venture out into the warmer weather for some fresh air and exercise.

Most walkers are courteous, pulling up their face masks and making every effort to maintain 6 feet of spacing.

There are a few joggers,often without masks, who will pass by panting out respiratory secretions. But again, most of them try to be polite.

Unfortunately, there is a breed of aggressive and narcissistic bicyclists who pose a significant public health risk. They are easy to recognize, donned in lycra, bent over on their racing bikes as they speed down hills without any effort to slow down or move aside to avoid oncoming walkers. Efforts to escape them by dropping to single file walking are futile.

On several occasions, I have had to flee into driveways or up grassy embankments to escape injury from both their chromed missiles, as well as feared respiratory exhalations.

Subtle efforts, such as bearing out a bit into the roadway and calling “distance” are met with expletive deleted bellows and admonitions to “stay on the sidewalk” in neighborhoods lacking such amenities.

Perhaps they are so addled and besotted

their wheeled they are subject to local laws, including “rules of the road” for cars, as well as recent government decree for social distancing.

Since common courtesy and human decency elude them, perhaps a ticket from law enforcement will convince them to reconsider their arrogant behavior on the shared roadways in Middletown.

Barbara Reiser, Middletown
Hard to say without being there ... this is one side of the story, and from the stuff I bolded above, she appears to be prone to exaggeration.

I have seen both. Rude cyclists who pass too close to pedestrians (and other cyclists), and rude pedestrians who literally walk down the centerline of the street, and on streets where there certainly ARE sidewalks. Fortunately, both are fairly rare.

All I can say is that if this really happens that often to her (and not the occasional arrogant cyclist), she may be part of the problem.
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Old 05-21-20, 08:54 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I'm assuming everyone posting here wouldn't actually do this, but this letter demonstrates that if you do, it sticks in pedestrians' minds as being "typical" behavior. Getting the crap scared out of you is an experience that will stick with you in memory way more than 100 non-eventful, polite passes. A lot of you are just engaging in shooting the messenger (the letter writer) on this thread.
Bikes are so quiet it is common to startle a pedestrian as I go by. I've installed a bell as notification of my presence. The tinkle of a bike bell is a lot friendlier than the whoosh of a bike going by.
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Old 05-21-20, 10:26 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
Hard to say without being there ... this is one side of the story, and from the stuff I bolded above, she appears to be prone to exaggeration.

I have seen both. Rude cyclists who pass too close to pedestrians (and other cyclists), and rude pedestrians who literally walk down the centerline of the street, and on streets where there certainly ARE sidewalks. Fortunately, both are fairly rare.

All I can say is that if this really happens that often to her (and not the occasional arrogant cyclist), she may be part of the problem.

Some of what you bolded doesn't appear to be an exaggeration--you haven't seen people in a tuck buzzing pedestrians at high speeds? I sure have.

And just about anywhere in the country, if there is a pedestrian in the road, it is our job by law to avoid them, not the other way around. If you can't pass them safely, you wait to do so until you can. They're under no legal obligation to scurry off the edge of the road.

If they're really in the middle of the road, btw, passing them on the right OR left should be easy as pie.

Your speculation about whether she is part of the problem seems pretty groundless, and for that matter, pretty much irrelevant. Like you say, you weren't there, so basically you're just making the possibility up.
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Old 05-21-20, 10:59 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Some of what you bolded doesn't appear to be an exaggeration--you haven't seen people in a tuck buzzing pedestrians at high speeds? I sure have.
Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
I have seen both. Rude cyclists who pass too close to pedestrians (and other cyclists), and rude pedestrians who literally walk down the centerline of the street, and on streets where there certainly ARE sidewalks. Fortunately, both are fairly rare.
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
And just about anywhere in the country, if there is a pedestrian in the road, it is our job by law to avoid them, not the other way around. If you can't pass them safely, you wait to do so until you can. They're under no legal obligation to scurry off the edge of the road.
Of course it is our duty to avoid them. It is also their duty not to walk down the centerline. They are supposed to walk on the sidewalk when there is one, and when there isn't ... facing traffic. At least that is the law in my hood.

Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
If they're really in the middle of the road, btw, passing them on the right OR left should be easy as pie.
Not on the streets I live on. I want to pass them with adequate distance (especially now) and with parked cars, that can be impossible. I can also tell you from experience that it is not a good idea to pass anyone on the right. In this case, because if the pedestrian hears you and decides to move, they are probably going to move that way.

Best practice: politely announce your presence ("head's up," "coming by your left" or with a bell) before you pass. Most pedestrians appreciate it.

Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Your speculation about whether she is part of the problem seems pretty groundless, and for that matter, pretty much irrelevant. Like you say, you weren't there, so basically you're just making the possibility up.
Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
All I can say is that if this really happens that often to her (and not the occasional arrogant cyclist), she may be part of the problem.
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Old 05-21-20, 11:11 AM
  #32  
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I've seen lots of obnoxious cyclists. Not a majority, to be sure, but there is a certain demographic who appear to take great pride in it.
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Old 05-21-20, 11:29 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
Of course it is our duty to avoid them. It is also their duty not to walk down the centerline. They are supposed to walk on the sidewalk when there is one, and when there isn't ... facing traffic. At least that is the law in my hood.



Not on the streets I live on. I want to pass them with adequate distance (especially now) and with parked cars, that can be impossible. I can also tell you from experience that it is not a good idea to pass anyone on the right. In this case, because if the pedestrian hears you and decides to move, they are probably going to move that way.

Best practice: politely announce your presence ("head's up," "coming by your left" or with a bell) before you pass. Most pedestrians appreciate it.
She never actually claimed how often it happened to her, so yeah, I think it was a bit of gratuitous "messenger killing" on your part to speculate about whether she was "part of the problem".

I have literally never seen anyone actually walking down the middle of a road that had any traffic on it. I have seen the "arrogant bicyclist" scenario several times. I don't like it any more than the lady writing the letter.

Best practice for me, if it is possible, is to go out far enough in the lane so that I don't see any practical reason to announce the pass. This is not a MUP, on a road, people are expecting to be passed routinely by vehicles going faster than them, just not closely. If I can't take the lane because of cars behind me, I will announce the pass if I think I'm going to be closer than about 6 feet from the pedestrian (more now, obviously), but otherwise, I think the acoustics of that situation make the whole thing rather pointless.
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Old 05-21-20, 03:42 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind View Post
I personally invite you to become part of the moderation team.

You have been here for quite some time and maybe you can give back to the forum.

You can help us move those misplaced threads in road, gravel, the dead mtb forum. It's volunteer. You deal with lots of spam, people being mean to each other, people who continue to harass each other in all parts of the forum and people who don't appreciate the time you spend away from your family and job to come here and make this a nice place for cyclists. You will be called names, accused of being racist, called unfair, have hooligans gang up on you and lie about you to the rest of the membership AND post it publicly, yet you have maintain professionalism and patience. Moderators are on call 24/7 in case of emergency where we need the entire team to come and help function in the middle of the night when handling attacks on the site. And you must be able to work together as a team, for communication is a plus, AND required.

Are you up to it?
Wow, this is quite the reaction to me saying I don't actually take issue with the creation of a covid forum.
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Old 05-21-20, 08:30 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Wow, this is quite the reaction to me saying I don't actually take issue with the creation of a covid forum.

With every action comes an equal reaction. You complained we don't move thread where they belong. I'm offering you the chance to make this the forum you want it to be.

Are you up to helping?

Or just up to judging the work my team does?
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Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.
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Old 05-21-20, 08:57 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by skookum View Post
I've seen lots of obnoxious cyclists. Not a majority, to be sure, but there is a certain demographic who appear to take great pride in it.
I see a lot of obnoxious drivers. Maybe there's just a lot of obnoxious people in the world
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Old 05-22-20, 07:19 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Wow, this is quite the reaction to me saying I don't actually take issue with the creation of a covid forum.
Oh, c'mon, you really can't have it both ways. Remember this gem? https://www.bikeforums.net/coronavir...unge-lame.html
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Old 05-22-20, 07:35 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Oh, c'mon, you really can't have it both ways. Remember this gem? https://www.bikeforums.net/coronavir...unge-lame.html
Have it both ways? What am I trying to have both ways? I don't actually care so whatever way it is, is ultimately OK.
pro tip- adults can have an opinion and also not care. Its possible because opinions can vary in level of strength.

I've mentioned this forum twice in 6 weeks. Once I called it lame and said I had no interest in doing anything to change things around here. Then I pointed out the absurdity of it when other topics aren't moved because I find humor in the absurd, and then said I have no interest in doing anything to change things around here.

I'm happy to voice what I disagree with or find funny and then move on. That isnt trying to have it both ways.
Good lord, I'm like a moth to a flame- I just engaged with LDL in a disagreement. Time to buckle up!
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Old 05-22-20, 07:47 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Have it both ways? What am I trying to have both ways? I don't actually care so whatever way it is, is ultimately OK.
pro tip- adults can have an opinion and also not care. Its possible because opinions can vary in level of strength.

I've mentioned this forum twice in 6 weeks. Once I called it lame and said I had no interest in doing anything to change things around here. Then I pointed out the absurdity of it when other topics aren't moved because I find humor in the absurd, and then said I have no interest in doing anything to change things around here.

I'm happy to voice what I disagree with or find funny and then move on. That isnt trying to have it both ways.
Good lord, I'm like a moth to a flame- I just engaged with LDL in a disagreement. Time to buckle up!

Adults don't complain about something twice then expect to be taken seriously when they say they "have no issue with it".

You're trolling the mods, and it's bloody obvious.
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Old 05-22-20, 08:09 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Adults don't complain about something twice then expect to be taken seriously when they say they "have no issue with it".

You're trolling the mods, and it's bloody obvious.

Haha, It's 6 weeks between me mentioning the separate forum. That'd be the worst troll job ever.
My initial response in this thread was to 1- inform the OP of where the forum is and 2- point out the absurd(again, which I find funny). I had no idea if mods would read the thread so no i wasnt trolling them.
Perhaps the subtlety between complaint and rambling about what is funny is too fine a line for you. Perhaps I see the line where others see nothing. Either way, it isnt trolling.

Really though, 6 weeks between posts on the topic, yet I'm trolling and have an issue with the forum's creation? Haha, thats rich.

...and we continue to go down the rabbit hole.
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Old 05-22-20, 09:59 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
I see a lot of obnoxious drivers. Maybe there's just a lot of obnoxious people in the world
Pedestrians are exposed to both. From personal experience, I would say there is a greater proportion of obnoxious cyclists than drivers. I can't remember the last time I saw a car deliberately driving
on the wrong side of the road.
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Old 05-22-20, 10:42 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by skookum View Post
Pedestrians are exposed to both. From personal experience, I would say there is a greater proportion of obnoxious cyclists than drivers. I can't remember the last time I saw a car deliberately driving
on the wrong side of the road.

I see it a lot, it's one scenario we tend to overlook. I'm riding on the right side of the road, FRAP. Car behind me decides to speed up and go way into the opposite direction lane to pass me instead of waiting for the opposite lane to be clear like they're legally required to do. If you look at the statutes in my state, it's quite clear that I'm riding completely legally and the passing car is illegally in the opposite lane. Going into that lane to pass is only legal if it is clear. I've seen this get very close to a head on collision, which no doubt someone would blame me for.
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Old 05-22-20, 06:30 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Haha, It's 6 weeks between me mentioning the separate forum. That'd be the worst troll job ever.
My initial response in this thread was to 1- inform the OP of where the forum is and 2- point out the absurd(again, which I find funny). I had no idea if mods would read the thread so no i wasnt trolling them.
Perhaps the subtlety between complaint and rambling about what is funny is too fine a line for you. Perhaps I see the line where others see nothing. Either way, it isnt trolling.

Really though, 6 weeks between posts on the topic, yet I'm trolling and have an issue with the forum's creation? Haha, thats rich.

...and we continue to go down the rabbit hole.
It's trolling. And that's against the forum guidelines. If you were moderator, I'd like to see if you'd adhere to how we handle trolling.

And yes, we don't look at every thread or post but we DO look at every complaint ABOUT a thread or post.

That' being said, I'd appreciate it if you'd answer my challenge.

Are you willing to give back to the forum that you have taken from for so long and show us how you want it to be?

And yes, I bolded it out since you are ignoring me. Maybe it will help you to see it better.
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Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.
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Old 05-22-20, 07:43 PM
  #44  
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Does anyone know a good shop for aftermarket chrome-ing? I’d DIY, but I’m not confident in my ability to melt the carbon enough to achieve adherence without compromising structural integrity.
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Old 05-22-20, 07:54 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind View Post
It's trolling. And that's against the forum guidelines. If you were moderator, I'd like to see if you'd adhere to how we handle trolling.

And yes, we don't look at every thread or post but we DO look at every complaint ABOUT a thread or post.

That' being said, I'd appreciate it if you'd answer my challenge.

Are you willing to give back to the forum that you have taken from for so long and show us how you want it to be?

And yes, I bolded it out since you are ignoring me. Maybe it will help you to see it better.

Please, please don't let that guy be a moderator.
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Old 05-22-20, 07:58 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by MaxKatt View Post
Does anyone know a good shop for aftermarket chrome-ing? I’d DIY, but I’m not confident in my ability to melt the carbon enough to achieve adherence without compromising structural integrity.

Might be a good idea to make that a new thread in General Cycling.
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Old 05-22-20, 08:16 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Haha, It's 6 weeks between me mentioning the separate forum. That'd be the worst troll job ever.
My initial response in this thread was to 1- inform the OP of where the forum is and 2- point out the absurd(again, which I find funny). I had no idea if mods would read the thread so no i wasnt trolling them.
Perhaps the subtlety between complaint and rambling about what is funny is too fine a line for you. Perhaps I see the line where others see nothing. Either way, it isnt trolling.

Really though, 6 weeks between posts on the topic, yet I'm trolling and have an issue with the forum's creation? .

...and we continue to go down the rabbit hole.
>> it's a reoccurring theme > well intentioned good guy points out a societal flaw & presto good guy becomes the bad guy you should read Ibsens "An Enemy of the People" & take comfort in that you only did what seemed so right
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... and so it goes
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Old 05-22-20, 08:46 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind View Post
It's trolling. And that's against the forum guidelines. If you were moderator, I'd like to see if you'd adhere to how we handle trolling.

And yes, we don't look at every thread or post but we DO look at every complaint ABOUT a thread or post.

That' being said, I'd appreciate it if you'd answer my challenge.

Are you willing to give back to the forum that you have taken from for so long and show us how you want it to be?

And yes, I bolded it out since you are ignoring me. Maybe it will help you to see it better.
Looks like we have different ideas/definitions of what trolling is since I don't see 2 comments in 6 weeks as qualifying to the below common interpretation.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
In internet slang, a troll is a person who starts flame wars or upsets people on the Internet by posting inflammatory and digressive,[1]extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses[2] and normalizing tangential discussion,[3] either for the troll's amusement or a specific gain.

Also, I don't simply take from this forum. I add to it with my excellent wit, vast knowledge, and wallet.

Regardless of how troll is defined, thank you for your offer, but no I am not interested in being a moderator at this time.
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Old 05-23-20, 04:53 PM
  #49  
livedarklions
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Looks like we have different ideas/definitions of what trolling is since I don't see 2 comments in 6 weeks as qualifying to the below common interpretation.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
In internet slang, a troll is a person who starts flame wars or upsets people on the Internet by posting inflammatory and digressive,[1]extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses[2] and normalizing tangential discussion,[3] either for the troll's amusement or a specific gain.

Also, I don't simply take from this forum. I add to it with my excellent wit, vast knowledge, and wallet.

Regardless of how troll is defined, thank you for your offer, but no I am not interested in being a moderator at this time.

Funny, I don't see anything in your definition providing a 6 week statute of limitation. Otherwise, your behavior fits that definition to a T. And it's a hell of a lot more than two posts.
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Old 05-23-20, 05:45 PM
  #50  
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Today, on and off the mup, I finally met ONE cyclist that might fit Babs description. He was decked out in racing jersey/shorts, helmet and riding a nice cannondale... BUT... as I observed him from the mup, he never stopped.... Signs, lights, cars, cross traffic... Cheezy rice! I've seen a number of single and groups slide up the side and go through stops when clear, but this guy litterally kept keeping up speed like he was bullet (& car) proof.... Kept thinking I was gonna hafta render aid and collect the parts... but, no, his rabbit foot had major mojo left in it.... His name had to be Richard, cause he really rode like a Dick....
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