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Brakes - where do you stand?

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Brakes - where do you stand?

Old 08-11-20, 12:08 PM
  #51  
DiabloScott
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
I hope you dont mind my saying so, but you to seem to resist progress. Stick shift??? Direct shift and 8-9-10 speed automatics are faster and get better mileage.

Back to bikes. As I have posted discs have several things going for them. Discs do not scab up expensive rims and finally wear them out. Rims for disc brake bikes can be ligher, stronger, and more aero. And lastly disc work better in the wet.
Yes, you have a half dozen posts in this thread with your list of advantages. A thorough analysis would include disadvantages.

1. Finicky adjustments
2. Propensity to get whacked out of adjustment on wheel changes, etc.
3. More complicated wheel changes.
4. More complicated maintenance.
5. Noisy.
6. Weight.
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Old 08-11-20, 12:36 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
Yes, you have a half dozen posts in this thread with your list of advantages. A thorough analysis would include disadvantages.

1. Finicky adjustments
2. Propensity to get whacked out of adjustment on wheel changes, etc.
3. More complicated wheel changes.
4. More complicated maintenance.
5. Noisy.
6. Weight.
I assume those 6 disadvantages are for disk brakes...
1, I haven't had to adjust mine for the last 20 years...
2, Never happened in the last 20 years...
3, I don't see that at all...
4, If you actually need to do something it can be...
5, Not if you put the wheel on following certain steps like applying the brakes before final tightening of the wheel nut...
6, I suppose hydraulic brakes are a tiny-weeny bit heavier... but the overall advantage certainly way out weighs, the extra weight... IMO.
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Old 08-11-20, 12:54 PM
  #53  
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Well it looks like the cycling world is divided on this one!

https://cyclingmagazine.ca/sections/...the-rim-brake/
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Old 08-11-20, 01:10 PM
  #54  
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I have disk brakes on my hybrid and love them. The only pain in the butt is putting that little plastic tab thing in the caliper when you remove the front wheel. Other than that, no issues whatsoever.

I lived through the transition from drum brakes to disk brakes in cars, so makes the adjustment to disks on bikes is easy, lol.
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Old 08-11-20, 01:36 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
I assume those 6 disadvantages are for disk brakes...
1, I haven't had to adjust mine for the last 20 years...
2, Never happened in the last 20 years...
3, I don't see that at all...
4, If you actually need to do something it can be...
5, Not if you put the wheel on following certain steps like applying the brakes before final tightening of the wheel nut...
6, I suppose hydraulic brakes are a tiny-weeny bit heavier... but the overall advantage certainly way out weighs, the extra weight... IMO.
You didn't have through axles 20 years ago. Through axles were developed to fix problems disc brakes had like front wheel ejection and caliper alignment.
The motivation for disc brakes had more to do with mtb frames and suspension than better stopping.
When they came out, hydraulic brakes had problems that were resolved by design refinement.
The fact that you understand all the adjustments and fine points of disc brakes doesn't mean they're intuitive for people looking to make a decision.

I think discs are clearly superior to rim brakes for some applications - especially CX and MTB; and they will continue to become more popular on road bikes, but a reasonable road bike rider may evaluate the pro's and con's for his specific conditions and make a reasonable decision to buy a new road bike with rim brakes.

Last edited by DiabloScott; 08-11-20 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 08-11-20, 02:43 PM
  #56  
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Does having disc brakes increase the cost of the bike as mentioned in the article? I could see that as something to ponder over when considering either or while purchasing a new bike, especially if your a COVID 19 cyclist bucking the trend.
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Old 08-11-20, 03:29 PM
  #57  
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If/when I have to buy new wheels for my Crosstrail, they will be disc ready - so I can convert! Disc brakes are the future, and are amazing. MHO
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Old 08-11-20, 03:45 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
If/when I have to buy new wheels for my Crosstrail, they will be disc ready - so I can convert! Disc brakes are the future, and are amazing. MHO
One of the reasons this is such a big issue is because conversion is next to impossible. What kind of disc-ready wheels are you talking about? You can't have through axles, you probably can't have standard disc hub OLD, you will need rim-brake compatible rims.

If you want new wheels for your existing bike, they need to be compatible with the brakes on your existing bike.
If you have a rim brake bike and want to go disc brakes, you need to get a whole new bike.

Last edited by DiabloScott; 08-11-20 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 08-11-20, 04:59 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
You didn't have through axles 20 years ago. Through axles were developed to fix problems disc brakes had like front wheel ejection and caliper alignment.
The motivation for disc brakes had more to do with mtb frames and suspension than better stopping.
When they came out, hydraulic brakes had problems that were resolved by design refinement.
The fact that you understand all the adjustments and fine points of disc brakes doesn't mean they're intuitive for people looking to make a decision.

I think discs are clearly superior to rim brakes for some applications - especially CX and MTB; and they will continue to become more popular on road bikes, but a reasonable road bike rider may evaluate the pro's and con's for his specific conditions and make a reasonable decision to buy a new road bike with rim brakes.
You "may" be right... I don't really know what through axels are... But, My bike actually seems to have both... I "think". .. I could, actually put rim brakes on my bike too... if I really wanted, I think...

Last edited by 350htrr; 08-11-20 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 08-11-20, 05:20 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
Disc all the way.... I would not buy a bike without disc brakes... Same with index shifters.. I would not buy a bike without index shifters... I guess I am just too old to change, as I have had disk brakes and index shifters for the last 20+ years, and, am used to the good old things of 20 years ago, unlike some that think even older things work better than some of these sort of newer things, so some people seem to think older, older stuff is the cat's meow from a 100 years ago ... NOT so IMO...
I would not buy a bike with disc brakes... I guess I am too old to change.

No "Brifters" either, too much clutter.

I guess I am too old to change.
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Old 08-11-20, 05:33 PM
  #61  
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I have 3 bikes with rim brakes: road, TT, and CX. When I wanted to build myself a CX bike, I wanted to follow the time tested route of repurposing some used components I had sitting in a bin, so I spent some time on eBay looking for a cantilever frame. This also allowed me to reuse some decent 10-speed wheelsets.


Did the same when I built up a CX bike for my son:



Turned out light and hellafast. He won the local U19 series as a 15-year old, so pardon the fatherly pride.

But my next bike will be a new MTB and that will surely be disc. Oh well.

Last edited by caloso; 08-11-20 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 08-11-20, 05:53 PM
  #62  
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Like many here I have bikes with both systems. I'm a fair weather cyclist who enjoys a brisk but casual pace.
Both systems work for me but I do prefer the clean minimalist lines of caliper brakes on my Road bikes. However, I ride my City Hybrid a little more aggressively and the discs work great and give the bike a "BadAzz" look
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Old 08-11-20, 07:12 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Wileyone View Post
I would not buy a bike with disc brakes... I guess I am too old to change.

No "Brifters" either, too much clutter.

I guess I am too old to change.
Why not change...??? Have you ever rode a bike with disk brakes...??? If you have NOT experienced the difference between the two, I can assure you, that, there IS a difference.

Wet; Night and day, in both the stopping power , and, the modulation of said disc compared to rim...

Dry; OK, not really much difference except in modulation, or, if loaded up and then the stopping power also becomes way more apparent...

Muddy/Wet/ freezing/ over loaded/pushed to the limit aggressive riding... and... so on, including maintenance/adjustment/reliability in all those conditions have improved over the years...

Discs all the way... IMO, You, and a few others here, talk like a three in the tree manual shifter guy, who stopped at the 4 speed manual tranny level of technology , and, are poo pooing the newer, manual/auto paddle shifter tyranny's out there today. Guess what, technology keeps going and keeps getting better at doing the same thing... Like a single speed bicycle became a 3 speed bicycle, then a 10 speed, then a 18 speed, then a 21 speed, and now there are 33 speeds put there... Do you really NEED anything but a single speed... NO, BUT wait a minute, YES, you do if you want to go faster with "less effort", or, a more efficient ways of riding a bicycle... Just like braking, there IS a "better way" than old rim technology, again, do you NEED it,? NO, but it sure IS better... IMO...
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Old 08-11-20, 07:33 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
Why not change...??? Have you ever rode a bike with disk brakes...??? If you have NOT experienced the difference between the two, I can assure you, that, there IS a difference.

Wet; Night and day, in both the stopping power , and, the modulation of said disc compared to rim...

Dry; OK, not really much difference except in modulation, or, if loaded up and then the stopping power also becomes way more apparent...

Muddy/Wet/ freezing/ over loaded/pushed to the limit aggressive riding... and... so on, including maintenance/adjustment/reliability in all those conditions have improved over the years...

Discs all the way... IMO, You, and a few others here, talk like a three in the tree manual shifter guy, who stopped at the 4 speed manual tranny level of technology , and, are poo pooing the newer, manual/auto paddle shifter tyranny's out there today. Guess what, technology keeps going and keeps getting better at doing the same thing... Like a single speed bicycle became a 3 speed bicycle, then a 10 speed, then a 18 speed, then a 21 speed, and now there are 33 speeds put there... Do you really NEED anything but a single speed... NO, BUT wait a minute, YES, you do if you want to go faster with "less effort", or, a more efficient ways of riding a bicycle... Just like braking, there IS a "better way" than old rim technology, again, do you NEED it,? NO, but it sure IS better... IMO...
No. I have never ridden a bike with car brakes nor electronic shifting. I like to ride these.







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Old 08-11-20, 07:48 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Wileyone View Post
No. I have never ridden a bike with car brakes nor electronic shifting. I like to ride these.







So why not just ride a single speed...???
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Old 08-11-20, 07:55 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
So why not just ride a single speed...???
I have a single speed but sometimes I like to ride something different. I guess I am just old school.

So give your best but there is no way I want to try something "new".
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Old 08-11-20, 10:03 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Wileyone View Post
I have a single speed but sometimes I like to ride something different. I guess I am just old school.

So give your best but there is no way I want to try something "new".
No problem, you, or everyone else can and should ride the type of bicycle they want to ride... My point is trying to be, for the people who say that hydraulic disc brakes aren't worth it, it IS, if you want...
1; superior/consistent, modulation in any kind of weather.
2; excellent consistent/stopping power in all kinds of weather.
3; low maintenance, reliable, fade free braking light or loaded predictable control in any kind or weather.
4; hydraulic disc brakes are the answer...

If you don't care/need any of that, rim brakes will do...
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Old 08-11-20, 10:14 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
No problem, you, or everyone else can and should ride the type of bicycle they want to ride... My point is trying to be, for the people who say that hydraulic disc brakes aren't worth it, it IS, if you want...
1; superior/consistent, modulation in any kind of weather.
2; excellent consistent/stopping power in all kinds of weather.
3; low maintenance, reliable, fade free braking light or loaded predictable control in any kind or weather.
4; hydraulic disc brakes are the answer...

If you don't care/need any of that, rim brakes will do...
Cool.
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Old 08-11-20, 11:11 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
My point is trying to be, for the people who say that hydraulic disc brakes aren't worth it, it IS, if you want...
We haven't discussed worth. I just looked at one of my favorite custom bike websites and the difference between a hydraulic disc Ultegra Di2 bike and the same bike with Ultegra Di2 rim brakes is about $1200.

So assuming you have a budget of some amount, the choice could be between a new disc brake bike vs a new rim brake bike with two sets of wheels or maybe a rim brake bike with DuraAce instead of Ultegra. Reasonable people might choose the bike with good-enough brakes and put the bling somewhere else.
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Old 08-11-20, 11:46 PM
  #70  
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I stand solidly on the side of disc brakes.

About four years ago I went from a MTB commuter conversion (v-brakes) to a hydraulic disc commuter. The difference in modulation, in the full range from a light feather to full-stop, was remarkable. When switching back to the MTB, the first few stops were a shocker because there was a notable lag before the brakes would start to function. I simply felt I had better control over braking. The actual reason I chose disc brakes - to avoid snow and ice clogging the brakes in the winter - turned out to be the secondary improvement. Now that I live in the PNW, it's less snow and ice than a half-year of rain. Not having to wait for a wheel revolution before the brakes grab in the wet is an improvement. It's wet here a lot, and my commute has a long descent with stops. I like the better control.

I just finished building my newest road bike, with cable actuated hydraulic discs. No doubt, the new bike is better for a lot of reasons, but brake performance is up there. The old road bike goes up for sale next week. Again, I ride in the rain, year round, frequently in the foothills and occasionally long and/or steep descents. Braking control matters to me, a lot.

The last rim brake holdout is my brevet bike, a recumbent. It has dual pivot road calipers; braking is decent but can't hold a candle to disc brakes for immediacy and controlability. Being a recumbent it's rather fast on descents. On this bike I've done a lot of descending, in the dark, in the rain, on unfamiliar roads. Taken some silly risks I suppose. Obviously I'm here so braking was adequate. I'd like better than adequate. If I ever update to a newer 'bent, it will definitely have disc brakes.
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Old 08-12-20, 06:26 AM
  #71  
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Aren't we due for a new thread on kick stands?
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Old 08-12-20, 06:44 AM
  #72  
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Wileyone now you're talking showing that bike porn! As the OP of this thread I didn't really start it to debate which brake system was better but more to see which look people thought was hotter. I think we've probably flogged this dead horse enough and conclude that everyone has an opinion and that's a great thing. I also don't see it as not keeping up with the times. Biking for most people in the 50+ group is recreational, so you should choose what you like. If I was trying to run a professional race team and decided that vintage steele with rim brakes was the way to go, then I would need to get with the times!

Rim or disc brake, show us your hot bikes.
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Old 08-12-20, 06:45 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by bargeon View Post
Aren't we due for a new thread on kick stands?
LOL NO to kick stands
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Old 08-12-20, 08:47 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by gthomson View Post
LOL NO to kick stands
Funny you should mention kickstands. Recently at a local dealer I saw a Wilier Trestina full carbon Frame that someone mounted a kickstand to and crushed the seat stays.

There seems to be no cure for stupid.
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Old 08-12-20, 12:39 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
One of the reasons this is such a big issue is because conversion is next to impossible. What kind of disc-ready wheels are you talking about? You can't have through axles, you probably can't have standard disc hub OLD, you will need rim-brake compatible rims.

If you want new wheels for your existing bike, they need to be compatible with the brakes on your existing bike.
If you have a rim brake bike and want to go disc brakes, you need to get a whole new bike.
My bike frame is already set up for disc brakes. In 2008, Specialized made them both ways, Disc and rim. All I need are the hubs to bolt them to..... and calipers and master cylinders. All available in a kit. The mounting points are already on the fork and stay..New wheels will have them
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