Is this frame safe?
11-14-16, 10:54 PM
#1
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Is this frame safe?
It appears this frame was in a front collision. The top and down tubes are wrinkled.
I can't tell if there is any damage to the fork, although I would think a front collision would affect it.
The tubing is oversize which probably means it is thinner and less sturdy.
Has this frame been compromised? Would it be unsafe to ride?
I can't tell if there is any damage to the fork, although I would think a front collision would affect it.
The tubing is oversize which probably means it is thinner and less sturdy.
Has this frame been compromised? Would it be unsafe to ride?
11-14-16, 10:58 PM
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11-14-16, 11:02 PM
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11-14-16, 11:04 PM
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The corrosion would concern me as much as the crash damage. Between the two I can't imagine that it could ever be confidently ridden. I would guess at the very least the paint needs to be stripped and as much as possible the insides of the tubes examined.
11-14-16, 11:07 PM
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11-14-16, 11:12 PM
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I'd want to see the bare metal.
Strip the paint, inspect the damage, then have the frame powder coated ($100) and apply replacement decals ($40).
Strip the paint, inspect the damage, then have the frame powder coated ($100) and apply replacement decals ($40).
11-14-16, 11:23 PM
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I have an MB-1 with more obvious wrinkles in the top and down tubes (though no corrosion). I rode it for a summer on gravel and FS roads without issue, but was given similar warnings from by friends at the LBS. I retired it and transferred the group to a Specialized Rock Combo (sadly not even a lateral move in terms of frame). Sad to see a Paramount pass.
11-14-16, 11:44 PM
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I've seen worse that was rideable. But like @jyl sez remove some paint where you think there's damage. Check the fork steerer, if everything's straight, you're ok. The unicrown fork is especially strong. Check to make sure the fork spins in the headset and doesn't bind up in places.
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11-15-16, 12:39 AM
#10
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Just get something that leaves you with 100% peace-of-mind. Thats just something very OCD for me, to be able to ride the HELL out of something at any given moment. Thats the last thing I want on my mind while descending down a huge hill.
11-15-16, 04:06 AM
#11
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Photoshopped the area and it definitely looks like a crack to me - see picture below.
The peeling paint on the top tube is in a compromised area where the tube has been drilled for the internal cable guide resulting in reduced after brazed strength of the tube.
This Paramount PDG 5 OS frame was probably made for Schwinn by Panasonic in Japan.
It could be repaired with a new top and down tube but with the repairs plus paint and decals you're going to go WAY over the value of the frame...
A Waterford built Paramount could be sent back to the factory for repairs, maybe even one of the PDG 7 frames but... an olde saying: "Silk stockings on a rooster"
Couldn't find too much on the Tange OS road tubing. That tubing sticker was only used for a few years at most (veclocals makes a replacement).
From an old link (edited by me):
Tange OS Road is a "Prestige" tube set made of 4130 chrome moly steel. It was made in 2 "weights".
Top tubes and seat tubes were 28.6mm (1.125") and the down tubes were 30.0mm (1.18").
Light verson: TT (.7x.4x.7mm), DT (.8x.5x.8), ST (.9x.6 ovalized bottom), CS (.8), ST (.6), fork blades (.8)
Medium version: TT (.8x.5x.8mm), DT (.9x.6x.9), ST, CS, ST (same as light), fork blades (.9)
Dimensions are wall thicknesses in millimeters.
Here are 2 other links from 2008 and 2009 that go into those Paramount PDG frames in detail:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...paramount.html
Sunset Stories: A piece of American history: '92 Schwinn Paramount
I have a Waterford built 1992 Paramount OS that I bought as a NOS bare frame in 2008. It was one of the last Paramounts built by Schwinn before they went under. It's made of very thin walled True Temper OS tubing.
I showed the bike to Richard Schwinn, he confirmed all of the info I had on the frame and commented that it was designed for criteriums.
I'd pass on a frame like this one - can of worms!
verktyg
Chas.
The peeling paint on the top tube is in a compromised area where the tube has been drilled for the internal cable guide resulting in reduced after brazed strength of the tube.
This Paramount PDG 5 OS frame was probably made for Schwinn by Panasonic in Japan.
It could be repaired with a new top and down tube but with the repairs plus paint and decals you're going to go WAY over the value of the frame...
A Waterford built Paramount could be sent back to the factory for repairs, maybe even one of the PDG 7 frames but... an olde saying: "Silk stockings on a rooster"
Couldn't find too much on the Tange OS road tubing. That tubing sticker was only used for a few years at most (veclocals makes a replacement).
From an old link (edited by me):
Tange OS Road is a "Prestige" tube set made of 4130 chrome moly steel. It was made in 2 "weights".
Top tubes and seat tubes were 28.6mm (1.125") and the down tubes were 30.0mm (1.18").
Light verson: TT (.7x.4x.7mm), DT (.8x.5x.8), ST (.9x.6 ovalized bottom), CS (.8), ST (.6), fork blades (.8)
Medium version: TT (.8x.5x.8mm), DT (.9x.6x.9), ST, CS, ST (same as light), fork blades (.9)
Dimensions are wall thicknesses in millimeters.
Here are 2 other links from 2008 and 2009 that go into those Paramount PDG frames in detail:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...paramount.html
Sunset Stories: A piece of American history: '92 Schwinn Paramount
I have a Waterford built 1992 Paramount OS that I bought as a NOS bare frame in 2008. It was one of the last Paramounts built by Schwinn before they went under. It's made of very thin walled True Temper OS tubing.
I showed the bike to Richard Schwinn, he confirmed all of the info I had on the frame and commented that it was designed for criteriums.
I'd pass on a frame like this one - can of worms!
verktyg
Chas.
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Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Last edited by verktyg; 11-15-16 at 04:25 AM.
11-15-16, 06:05 AM
#12
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If it were mine, it would either become wall art or a shop stool.
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11-15-16, 06:34 AM
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If you have a frame builder in your area they would look at it and most probably tell you the bike must have a lot of sentimental value for you considering what they will have to charge.
11-15-16, 07:57 AM
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I saw that frame on CL not too long ago for an almost give-away price - like $15 or something. Didnt see it in person but decided against it after corresponding with the seller and giving it some thought. Imo you could probably ride it very carefully for a while, but I prefer to be able to ride fast and hard if I like, which I'd be afraid to do on that frame.
It's a shame as it's a cool frame, but it is what it is now - a wrecked frame.
It's a shame as it's a cool frame, but it is what it is now - a wrecked frame.
Last edited by exmechanic89; 11-15-16 at 08:19 AM.
11-15-16, 08:06 AM
#17
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No, for all the reasons posted above. If it were mine and things were assembled and ridden, I would spend more time worrying about "What's next?". @verktyg hit the nail on the head with the damage at the cable entry port, its already weakened, and now its a big question mark. Sorry if this pops a balloon, but the construction QCM/quality engineer, and failure analysis of steel fabrications, for over 26 years, says nope.
Bill
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11-15-16, 08:53 AM
#18
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I happen to have that same frame, year, colour and size. Building it up right now and, ouch , that hurts to look at!
+1 sorry to see a Schwinn Paramount go down like that.
+1 sorry to see a Schwinn Paramount go down like that.
11-15-16, 10:39 AM
#20
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The other justification to have a frame like that repaired is if it were an old favorite. That's why many folks have frame builders re-do their old friends! 
verktyg
Chas.
verktyg
Chas.
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Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
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Chas. ;-)
11-15-16, 07:43 PM
#22
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Just watched "Jackass 2" this afternoon, and I'd still be wary of riding that frame.
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A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
11-15-16, 08:04 PM
#23
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A friend of mine had a dropout break on her steel frame, but the frame didn't explode and she was able to come to a controlled stop.
11-15-16, 08:35 PM
#24
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Has anyone heard stories of a horrific crash caused by a steel frame failure? I'm curious to know how it happened and if something gave with basically no warning.
A friend of mine had a dropout break on her steel frame, but the frame didn't explode and she was able to come to a controlled stop.
A friend of mine had a dropout break on her steel frame, but the frame didn't explode and she was able to come to a controlled stop.
But the frame had failed at that position and the brake bridge/left stay as well... guy was still alive to sell the bike, so there's that.I tend to side with the "it's steel, it'll be fine" crew most of the time (because I just don't know any better? hahaha). But something about that possible crack, combined with the just plain scary-looking corrosion... I dunno, man.
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A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
Last edited by Fahrenheit531; 11-15-16 at 08:43 PM.
11-15-16, 09:16 PM
#25
verktyg
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"You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear!" was already a proverb in the mid-1500s!
verktyg
Chas.
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Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)