Bicycle ID...019 Ishiwata
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Bicycle ID...019 Ishiwata
Buddy of mine bought this bicycle but cant seem to get an ID and neither can I. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
Last edited by malcala622; 05-02-20 at 05:19 PM.
#2
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Wow. Nice high end frame. Definitely 80's vintage. Curious "Gumout" label. Just guessing but, looks made in Italy. Either that or, Kuwahara was trying to duplicate a DeRosa.
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So damned hot. My size. Nothing else matters. (Centurion influence?)
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Pass. Just look at that rear derailleur cable.
Also, how many world class bikes does your buddy have that he casually leans them around like that. Yes, I'm green with envy
Also, how many world class bikes does your buddy have that he casually leans them around like that. Yes, I'm green with envy
#6
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There is an example of that BB cutout in the drain hole thread. Nishiki.
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unworthy1 posted an identical BB cutout in the Drain Hole thread from a Nishiki O.N.P. - but the frame details aren't of an ONP, nor is the serial number similar: https://www.bikeforums.net/14625932-post69.html
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...and a head-turner. A lot to like going on there.
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● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
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This frame looks an awful lot like the Miki built frames that were sold as Centurion Professional and sometimes as Miki Road Racer (although with horizontal dropouts):
Other frames that share characteristics with the Mikis are some Takahashi Sannow labeled ones:
The difference here is that all of these have the Cinelli-esque 3 hole lug cutouts rather than the hearts.
Also, there is a slight difference in the serial number format between the Miki/Centurion frames and some of the Sannow ones and the mystery frame. One of the Sannows and this mystery frame are both missing the year digit between the 'M' and the fortnight (if it is a fortnight indicator). Not sure what this means. Maybe T-Mar has some insights?
Aside from the Centurions, the Mikis, the Sannows and the previously mentioned Nishiki ONPs, I've only seen this style of bb shell cutout on a Bridgestone built frame (labeled as Grand-Velo and using an entirely different serial number format):
As a side note, Sante Pogliaghi used to do bb cutouts similar to these; I wonder if that was an influence on builders at Miki (and BStone).
Other frames that share characteristics with the Mikis are some Takahashi Sannow labeled ones:
The difference here is that all of these have the Cinelli-esque 3 hole lug cutouts rather than the hearts.
Also, there is a slight difference in the serial number format between the Miki/Centurion frames and some of the Sannow ones and the mystery frame. One of the Sannows and this mystery frame are both missing the year digit between the 'M' and the fortnight (if it is a fortnight indicator). Not sure what this means. Maybe T-Mar has some insights?
Aside from the Centurions, the Mikis, the Sannows and the previously mentioned Nishiki ONPs, I've only seen this style of bb shell cutout on a Bridgestone built frame (labeled as Grand-Velo and using an entirely different serial number format):
As a side note, Sante Pogliaghi used to do bb cutouts similar to these; I wonder if that was an influence on builders at Miki (and BStone).
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Man- I'm trying to think of the last time I saw a 019 frame- I think I've only 'read' about them.
Is this like a 753 or is it 'dangerously thin' tubing?
Is this like a 753 or is it 'dangerously thin' tubing?
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I've owned 3 bikes with Ishi022 and liked them all, currently have only 1.
Have never seen, but always swore I would buy any 019 frame in my size.
I have viewed a catalogue page that listed an Ishi017 which is what I believe constituted 'dangerously thin'.
Maybe even a tubeset labeled 015.which was for .... time trialing and record attempts.
It was online somewhere. I'll quickly search again.
Well that was easy!
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Last edited by Wildwood; 05-03-20 at 12:37 PM.
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@MauriceMoss again for the WIN, I do believe! And there WAS another JP made bike that used that BB shell aside from the wide range that MM has posted above: Fuji had one model that used it, but it did not feature all the "Cinelli" details (like the 3-holes in main lugs) and had a different "fastback" seat cluster also not so "Cinelli". However it's been widely said the Fuji DID use Ishiwata tubing in many of their frames. And as Wildwood points out above, Ishiwata went 'way lighter than 019! I thought there was also one step heavier than 022: 024? Or did I imagine that one?
Last edited by unworthy1; 05-03-20 at 12:59 PM.
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Was there a Gumout cycling Team? (maybe my mind crossing over into motorsports)
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That BB shell was a standard, off the shelf item and not proprietary to any one manufacturer. It was used at least as early as the mid-1970s and at least as late as the mid-1980s. You''ll find it on upper end freame manufactured by Bridgestone, Kawamura, Miki and Fuji (Design Series). However, the serial number format does not match any of these and on the basis of the serial number format, Sannow is the leading candidate, despite the discrepancy in the lug cutouts.
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@MauriceMoss again for the WIN, I do believe! And there WAS another JP made bike that used that BB shell aside from the wide range that MM has posted above: Fuji had one model that used it, but it did not feature all the "Cinelli" details (like the 3-holes in main lugs) and had a different "fastback" seat cluster also not so "Cinelli". However it's been widely said the Fuji DID use Ishiwata tubing in many of their frames. And as Wildwood points out above, Ishiwata went 'way lighter than 019! I thought there was also one step heavier than 022: 024? Or did I imagine that one?
The op’s bike is hot!
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Besides 024, there was also 026 (plain gauge CroMo for heavy touring and track).Both date back to the boom era. In the late 1970s they introduced 0245 and 0265 (single butted and double butted hi-tensile sets respectively) and 025 (combination CrMo and hi-tensile, plain gauge with double butted down tube), There was also a unique 020 (CrMo double butted with oval butts, so the butts could be oriented in the direction of maximum stress).
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malcala622 , I'd love to see updates when your friend gets around to fixing this one up...
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The year of transition varied significantly from manufacturer to manufacturer. For instance, my Scapin had cables running under the BB shell in 1974, yet Specialized were still routing them on top of the BB shell of their Allez models as late as 1986. While the sample size is small, based on what I know of the serial format, I suspect the OP's bicycle is 1980.
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My friend ended up selling this bike locally since it wasn't his size. It ended up to someone 5 miles from me who flipped it for 4x the buying price.