greysquirrel

Interesting article on carbon fiber bikes:

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/p...-design-489852

Ghazmh

Titanium,

Troul 

not many will apprehend how important resin is when used in conjunction with CF.

It's like ordering a sub from the deli. A good deli will start you off with great bread then give you a lot of meats, cheeses, & toss in a beverage with some chips. A cheap deli will give you the same bread, but only provide some inexpensive herbs & use bologna with mild cheddar while being mounded with iceberg lettuce.

greysquirrel

Yeah, but would cost several thousand more.

Paul Barnard

It's cute the way they make bikes out of fishing pole material.

Troul 

or formula 1 facias.

rydabent

Well after all it is a carbon fiber reinforced plastic bike.

chaadster

Pffftt. It’s the same things. I remember when Ti was coming on in the ‘90s, and folks were kvetching about inferior Russian Ti compared to American Ti, and complaining about no-brand frames and made-to-spec brands like Airborne. Exact same sh*t.

Brand is all that has ever mattered; everthing else is a cheap-out and trade-off.

Phil_gretz

Maybe I'm cynical, but this article reminds me of industry advocacy pieces that denounce competitors. Open mold carbon frames do indeed undercut the established brands. These brands spend money to advertise and differentiate themselves. Many consumers cannot tell the difference between their technologically advanced framesets and generic framesets made by competitors. It's an industry problem, but it's not the consumer's problem in any way.

genejockey 

Super-sealed lady, chrome-color clothes
You wear 'cause you have no other
But I suppose no one knows
You're my plastic fantastic lover

WhyFi

I don't see that at all. In the opening of the article, they noted that they've bought, tested and have been impressed by some open mold frames. In the meat of the article, two industry guys were interviewed. One said that some companies use cheap materials, the other said that most are using the same range of materials as the big brands. One said that factory work conditions were sometimes appalling, the other disagreed, saying that he didn't know of any with sweatshop conditions or (more or less) indentured workers. Etc. etc. Sure, they touched on the lack of testing and accountability for many of these factories, but I think that's a fair criticism.

chaadster

Dude, there was a whole section, headlined in bold typeface,

You probably don’t “need” a World Tour bike

“Both of our experts advised against purchasing open mould frames direct, the primary reason being a lack of accountability if things go wrong. The frames available from brands who have purchased open mould creations and badged them up? Probably will do the job, if a little less innovative.”

Camilo

Speaking of titanium (vs carbon fiber) Not necessarily "several thousand". Check out the offerings from companies like Litespeed and Lynskey. They aren't the upper end boutique companies but are made in the US and have pretty good reputations. I think you'll find that their frame options and complete bike options aren't several thousand more than a similarly equipped high end CF frame. I've been looking at Lynskey and Litespeed gravel F&F and complete bikes. Bare frame/fork sets with basic options, normal discounts, were between ~$2 and 2.5K shipped. I don't think it's hard to spend that on a CF frame and fork. Of course the complete bike options can vary quite a bit depending on group and wheels, but the framesets give you an idea. I don't think those prices are much more than a few hundred more than a middle level, "brand name" CF F&F, and similar to upper end. But I haven't shopped for that in several years, so I could be wrong. There are US companies that design and do there sales from the US, but order their bikes from Asia which are even more economical, and as far as I've read, do a good job too

There will be a weight difference compared to high end CF of a couple pounds which may or may not be significant to the rider. The Lynskey GR300 frame (no fork) is quoted at about 1,800 (medium) and Litespeed Watia, a little lighter, ~1,600. My 10 year old CF frame (no fork) which I have been able to economically build up to sub 16 pounds was 1,000 but that is a road bike and these are gravel, and I would expect the road frames would be weigh less than the gravel frames. I know that it's easy to find a CF road frame a couple hundred grams (half a pound) lighter than my old bike. But my guess is that these "economical" titanium frames are at most a pound or so compared to a good, brand name CF frame, as would be the final build.