TakingMyTime

Actually, I think this is probably the most logical and reasonable argument for making the path safer. Its intended purpose has been subverted. The money that was spent to create the path so cyclists like us can enjoy a safe (no traffic) path through the county has gone to waste.

I"m not going to profess to know how to end homelessness or what to do about the encampments, but I do know that an incredible resource is not being used due to mismanagement.

snidely

Apparently you don't have much experience with Government in CA. Logical and reasonable argument? Those things mean nothing here.

jimincalif

Exactly right.

skidder

I'm not an admin, but could we keep the personal opinions out of this thread so it doesn't get closed? The SART is a great asset for bicyclists an others, its just going through a tough period right now while policy makers make their way through the government processes to come up with a solution (slow as it may be). This BF thread is a good way to post info on the SART so anyone using it has a good idea of what to expect (news stories, govt meetings, current conditions you experienced at certain locations, etc) but don't let it slide into personal opinion so the admins have to close it. Just a suggestion. Thanks

SARTman

No personal opinions on a forum, Hummm

I rode the SART yesterday and it appears to be improving in the Angles Stadium area. All of the underpasses have been cleared out. Unfortunately some are moving to the south in the Fountain Valley area but at least they are on the east side of the river away from cyclists, except for a small area at Harbor which is really increasing with "Permanent Campers". More are moving to the north above Katella and as far as Taft. Anyone Know why the do-gooder buffet near the stadium is no longer attractive to them? Too much crime there?

work4bike

I took a look at this trail on youtube -- damn it is bad, at least how it's portrayed here:



But California is progressive enough, I'm sure they can find some govt money to buy all these people a house





.

Garfield Cat

Not sure if this is the view on a bike, the homeless on SART

TJClay

That's pretty bad. I wonder what the mayor of Anaheim would do if I pitched a tent on the sidewalk in front of his house.
We pay through our taxes to use that trail and no way am I or my wife riding through there.

blt

I live in Northern California, but visit in-laws in Costa Mesa twice a year, and on each visit I usually have an early morning ride from Costa Mesa to Green River and back. I rode two days ago on July 4.

The stretch from Chapman to Taft was certainly different than it was when I last rode, late last December. I'm not sure, however, that it felt more dangerous, even if it seemed crazier. There really weren't encampments in the underpasses, and that is what had bugged me the most in the past. In the underpasses, there is little room, and too many things, whether belongings, bikes, or dogs, seem to end up on the trail. No way to have any speed going down, not when there is a danger of anything being on the trail combined with going from light into dark.

The encampments on both sides of the trail out in the light didn't seem so dangerous, even if it seems like the number of people camped out there has exploded absurdly. It didn't seem unsanitary to simply cruise through the area. It didn't seem unsafe. Of course, between 730 a.m. and 10:30 a.m. on the 4th of July is probably busy enough so there are no problems, it may be a different story when bike traffic is light. The only thing that was really in the trail during my ride through the homeless stretch was one medium size dog sleeping with his body just off the trail and his head in it, and otherwise, there were really no worries on this ride.

The only area where there were tents under any roads was at the 57, but they were just on the other side of the wall towards the river from the path, so there wasn't a safety issue presented under the 57.

Do I feel as safe as I would if there were no homeless encampments? No. But the SART doesn't feel as dangerous as, say, the PCH, or riding Adams from Huntington Beach back towards my in-laws' house -- last Sunday, I had one jerk who wanted me to take a right turn lane instead of staying on the right side of the far right lane that was going straight (and I could see in my mirror a car behind me wanting to turn right). He honked as he passed close by, and after getting through the intersection, he slowed down for a confrontation. Seeing this, I stopped at the corner after getting through the intersection -- since I wasn't going to come to him, and he couldn't really back up, he gave up and went on his way. I can't say that the homeless make me feel comfortable, but I feel way more threatened by idiot drivers than I do by the homeless.

jimincalif

Haven't been on SART recently, but I agree with you about Adams, not a good bike street.

TrojanHorse

can't argue about the idiot drivers but if you were to ride through SART later in the day when the whackos wake up, you might feel differently.

I haven't felt particularly threatened yet either but there's a lot of rubbish, debris and foot traffic, not to mention some visibly unstable homeless in the area.

blt

When I was on my southbound return between 10:15 and 10:30 am, the activity level was certainly different than it was between 7:30 and 7:45 am. I assume most were awake by then. More foot traffic, but little of it in the trail (no worse than when encountering non-homeless peds on other parts of the trail).

I was not, however, interested in going slowly and looking around, so perhaps I didn't observe all the rubbish and debris and things that might have bothered or worried me if I was doing anything other than just concentrating on riding and worrying only about things that were in the path or might enter the path.

Also, on the return passing by Angels Stadium I took what seems to be a service road just towards the river from the path, where there were only maybe two tents on the river side of the south part of the road, with the tents and activity on the stadium side of the road all facing the bike path and the stadium and not the service road, avoids perhaps the worst "tunnel" feeling for tents on both sides of the path at a time when people were awake. Of course, given the way the encampment is exploding, I wouldn't be surprised if that service road is more completely surrounded within a few weeks.

Of course, this is my experience on one ride in the morning on a holiday with a lot of morning bike traffic on the SART, so I may have been much more comfortable than riding in late afternoon on a day without much bike traffic. I was talking last Sunday morning to a guy working at a bike shop in Long Beach about the SGRT, he said he wouldn't worry about the homeless in the morning, but wouldn't ride though where the homeless are in the afternoon or evening.

I can only speak of my experience last Tuesday morning and my feelings. It wasn't exactly pleasant and relaxing to ride through 3 miles of homeless encampment, but in my 3 days of riding in Orange County last weekend, I only felt threatened while in traffic. I'll admit it doesn't help that I still have fresh on my mind a friend's husband being killed in Minnesota while on a ride in mid-June by a 16 year old driver. If I can succeed on my rides in mostly pushing out of my mind the risk of death from idiot drivers, I can cope with the unpleasantness of the homeless encampments. Tell me someone died from riding through a homeless encampment, and I'll feel differently, but overall, denial is my friend.

Garfield Cat

Reckless driving is of a certain degree. The intent to assault and to harm is another degree.

Steven@bikepost

Those videos are pretty bad. Even if you don't get attacked, how can one ride their $10K aero bike and stoke the bonfire of resentment? They may not know but still.... sad.

Was in LA this weekend and homeless people are walking barefoot on burning asphalt in 100 degrees whether.

DrIsotope

Rode through this Saturday on the way to Newport/HB, a couple of snaps from the return leg back to the ARTIC station. The photos don't include the sounds and smells-- plenty of generators humming along, and well, at near 100º it smells just like what you'd imagine. The wife was taken aback mostly by the makeup of the "transient population." It's not dirty, bearded guys in shabby clothes. It was mostly 20-30 somethings in clean clothes, most carrying cellphones, who appear to have adopted trailside dwellings as some bizarre millennial form of off-the-grid living. And why not, the local charities bring them food, pallets of drinking water, and there are trash disposal stations and porta-potties. It's like living at Coachella for free, forever.

Edit: my impromptu ride leader in the photos could not change gears, had no brakes, and slowed by dragging both feet on the ground, Flintstone-style.

Steven@bikepost

Amazing. Couldn't they at least set up their homes to look better then?

Or are they too busy updating their Instagram?

DrIsotope

In one spot, a handful of guys were using a pneumatic nailgun to assemble part of a structure out of pallets and what appeared to be fresh-from-the-Home-Depot 2x4s. Not a hammer, mind you. An air nailer. So that means compressor, and a generator to run it. These folks are not homeless. They are not living alongside the SART because they have no other options-- they're there by choice.

snidely

That is assuming they actually paid for the equipment and materials they were using.

DrIsotope

Whether they paid for the tools and materials is irrelevant. The location they chose to set up shop is tacitly condoned by someone higher up. Once someone starts building physical structures-- not just tents and garbage lean-tos-- they are no longer transient. Those folks, for whatever reasons, live there. I don't see it getting any better.

trailangel

There must be free wifi nearby.

snidely

I guess I misinterpreted your previous post. I thought you were implying that they had money to live elsewhere, but chose the trail-side camp instead.


I agree that it is condoned, simply by the fact that nothing is done to correct the situation.

popeye

My advise when this happens is to whip out the cell phone and start recording. They suddenly get religion. Now that I have been banished from the SART to Irvine it's a whole nother world.

jimincalif

Our club has a route that enters the SART southbound at 19th street in Santa Ana at Riverview park. The trail is on the E side of the river there. The route continues on SART for 4 miles and exits at Segerstrom in Fountain Valley. Crossing under 17th, Fairview, 1st, McFadden, Edinger and Harbor.

Anyone ridden this stretch recently and would you recommend it now? We have groups ranging from hard core roadies to social riders so we are not riding in a large group, typically small groups of 2-8.

Thanks.

skidder

I rode up from the beach and turned around at 1st street last Sunday AM about 6AM-6:30AM. Its definitely NOT like the area beside Angel Stadium. All the homeless campers were on the opposite side from the trail except down near the Harbor/Warner/SART 'triangle'; the ones that are in the vegetation in the triangle are behind a fence so they can't come directly onto the trail. South of that area they've all disappeared; none behind the Costco in Fountain Valley anymore. Some trash in the tunnel going under the 405 freeway, but no real problems. Go for it.

DrIsotope

Yeah, it's pretty much spotless under the overpasses now. Those used to be the sketchiest bits, as you'd pass from full sun into shade not knowing what might be in front of you. They're all out in the open now.