chas58

Spokes take the weight in tension, not compression.
Try to pull a spoke to the inside of a wheel. It can't be done without breaking the wheel (been there, done that).
You can push a spoke out through a wheel though (been there, done that).

the spoke heads float. Take your wheel apart and look...

Darth Lefty 

It's a matter of perspective. The hub gets loaded by the rider and moves down toward the ground. The reaction force from the ground comes up into the rim from the tire. The spokes between those points have the most tension relieved, just because their ends have gotten closer together. They don't actually go into compression, but their tension drops quite a lot. The rest of the spokes react pretty evenly to distribute the tension load lost from the lower spokes. Check out some figures from this Google image search.
https://www.google.com/search?q=bicy...element+stress


(Careful reading these things, a lot of them are done by students or amateurs and so they are not that carefully checked. One of them I just looked at, for example, showed strain in "N/mm^2" which is the same as what anyone else would call MPa, but in a nearby table they give the same value with units of N which is obviously a typo. It also contains howlers like,
Some of them with poorly chosen inputs do wind up showing spokes in compression. Beware!)

Buster77

Update: I purchased some Bon Jon Pass 35c tires and had them installed tubeless to replace my Clement X'Plor MSO Tubeless 36c. The difference is remarkable. The new tires are much lighter and have a smooth thread unlike the knobby Clements. Going up hills is dramatically easier and the ride is much smoother. I don't know to what degree of the easier climbing is due to the smooth thread or the lighter weight of the tire? This makes me now want to really think about replacing the rims and hubs and get an overall lighter wheel set. I'm thinking of Shimano Ultegra or XT hubs but others suggest to invest in higher end hubs that will last much longer. I welcome hub suggestions. Im happy to pay for longevity but only f I have to.

ratell

Contact Sugar Wheel Works. https://sugarwheelworks.com/
They are the ultimate wheel geeks and will help you figure out exactly what you want...

Tim_Iowa

Good to hear of the improvements!

I think that the "upgrade your wheels" mantra should really be "upgrade your tires". Stock wheels for bikes around >$800 are pretty decent any more, but even expensive bikes are still sold with heavy, stiff, low TPI tires. An upgrade to light, flexible, high TPI tires can make a huge improvement.


Regarding hubs: Many newer hubs use cartridge bearings, while Shimano still uses loose bearings (aka "cup and cone").

Cup and cone hubs can be rebuilt cheaply (new BBs and grease) and easily (cone wrenches, and usually a common hex key to remove the freehub body). But, when the bearing races on the hub body wear out, the hub is done.

Conversely, cartridge bearings cost a bit more and require a bearing press to seat properly. But, the hub body is separate from the bearing and isn't damaged when the bearing wears out. So, the hub could last forever. Most cartridge-bearing hubs use industry-standard bearings that are widely available.


So, I recommend doing some more research on loose ball vs cartridge bearings before deciding upon Shimano.

Also, the newer XT hubs (M780/T780 and up) have a different design (for oversized axles) that requires an uncommon 14 mm hex wrench to remove the freehub. The shop I work at didn't even have one, I ended up finding a 14 mm external socket at a local small engine shop.
I'm not sure which other new Shimano hubs use this design.


I'm happy with my loose-ball T780 hub (once I replaced the jammed freehub, parts cost covered by the seller).

I'm also happy with my cartridge-bearing Velo Orange Gran Cru touring hub. That one needs zero tools to dissassemble.
And my old Phil Wood FSA freewheel hubs spin for days with four new $5 (each) cartridge bearings.

stdlrf11

I had a pair of wheels handbuilt for my AWOL. Hope hubs and Velocity Aileron rims. I love them. They are tough, light and spin smooth, even after all they've been through. I've got a little under 10k miles on them, and they feel good as new.

I'm sure I would have been just as happy with a factory built set, if I could have found ones meeting my specs. I would have saved a lot of money too.

noglider 

Hang on. I've read that the only spokes whose tension is different from the rest are the bottom spokes. So the top and sides are all the same, and the bottom spokes loosen up as you roll.

Unless you race track, you're not going to feel the difference between stiff wheels and flexible wheels. It's just not a criterion to use in your searches.

@Buster77, I looked up your bike, and I love it. I doubt you can improve your bike with new wheels unless you spent over $1,000. They would have to be very light for you to feel a difference. Really, the only thing you can feel with wheels is the weight. And once you have light wheels, you may have to run lighter and narrower tires, which may be unpleasant or may not be. Yours is a wide-tire road bike, and you're going against the intended purpose. That's fine if you want to, but is that what you want? I'm actually envious of that bike. I think it's brilliant just the way it is.

If you want to spend money on an upgrade, look at tires. You're more likely to feel the difference, the cost will be lower, and you can swap your original tires on if you prefer them.

Buster77

Hi, Thanks for taking the time to read my post and reply to it. I already did just upgrade to nicer tires - Compass Bon Jon Pass 35c. Difference is remarkable. I have a new handbuilt wheel set on order: American Classic 101 rims threaded to XT Hubs. Maybe I will see a difference maybe I wont but I will find out soon.

bmthom.gis

A good matchup is an ultegra hub laced to H+ Son rims. Personally, if my hub is spinning really well, I'd rather just get new rims/spokes and keep the current hub in service. You can save a lot of money that way, and the rims are where all of the rotational mass lay.
Me, I would stay away from CK hubs anyhow. They are pricey, and I believe difficult to service and require some proprietary tools that are not cheap. If I were going boutique hubs, I would go for White Industries. But I don't have 350-400 to spend on new hubs.

noglider 

Those rims are rated at 381 grams so they are probably lighter than the rims you have. You might feel the difference. Hand built wheels probably last longer, but they don't ride better.

Buster77

The problem I have with the current CDX4 rims is that they do not allow for the most reliable tubeless installation. I have had air leakage problems from the start and have had 2 bike shops try to fix the problem for me. The last one is also the best regarded hand-built wheel maker in my city and the problem continues. I thought of keeping my existing hubs but they only provide for 24 spokes and a higher-end rim set will have at least 28. The rims Ive ordered to go along with the new XT subset will take 32 spokes. With my new tires I am very happy with the feel of the ride. So even if the new American Classic 101 rims on XT hubs provide no improvement in ride quality the more reliable tubeless installation will be well worth it.

fietsbob

I'm with the Latter group Most of the feel will be the tire selection..

Mid Price Shimano Hubs will be fine, Want a silent freewheel ? there are Those, Made for the Police Bikes ..

chas58

Yep, zero tension on the bottom spokes. They actually float in the wheel, and will poke through your inner tube if you don't have rim tape.

Heck no matter how fast you ride, the spoke at the very bottom of the wheel has no weight on it, and isn't moving at all!

(at least for an instant, assuming of course your tire is not sliding)

chas58

You went from some very nice Clements tires to some of the best high volume tires made (compass). Those compass tires are going to be hard to beat. Glad it is working for ya!

Yep, weight, and tread will both make a difference when climbing or accelerating. Good choice!

pdlamb

If the tension in your bottom spokes goes to zero, your wheels aren't tensioned adequately.