cuda2k

o it's been 5 years since my last new bike build. My last one was a 55cm All-City Space Horse, which was bought to replace the bike that I broke my collarbone on (a ill-conceived drop bar converted Schwinn Crosscut). The All-City and I never really found our groove and it has hung in the garage for the last several years as other hobbies (landscape photography primarily - see my sig) consumed most of my free time and cycling in general kinda fell to the wayside. A lot of reasons for that, but in 2019 I'm committing myself to getting back on the bike and back in shape. I kinda jumped in on this build without any real research, and as my previous thread showed, I really hadn't kept up with new developments of components. So far, all I've really figured out is the frame - a Surly Straggler in 'Blueberry Muffin Top' - and a pair of TRP Hy-Rd disc brakes (with joejack951 providing adapter arms for use with Campagnolo levers... more on that in a moment.

So, Plan A is to sell the All-City Space Horse frameset, wheels and brakes, take the rest of the parts off the current build (Campy/Shimano mixed 10 sp group) and swap them over to the Surly. Veloce 10sp levers and compact crank, Deore LX long cage RD with travel agent to move over a 12-34 cassette. Only parts I'd need to source would be wheels and cables. Plan B is to sell the entire bike, probably pick up a new 11sp Campagnolo Centaur setup and throw the rim brakes into the parts bin for another day.

So why this frame? Well, when I bought the Space Horse they didn't make a disk frameset, and every steel gravel/light-touring frame I came across at the time had some fatal flaw (in my opinion). Since then I'd seen that All-City had introduced a disc version of the frame, but, as usual with my way of things - I have to be difficult and just want the frameset to build up myself - and the only color they offer in frame only isn't my cup of tea. So on kind of a whim, I got searching around the net and stumbled upon the Straggler. A variation on their CrossCheck, but with a lower bottom bracket drop that had cut that frame from my original frame search. A call to my contact at the local bike shop later, a Blueberry Muffin Top colored frameset on order. This was the 2018 color apparently, as the website now shows a black and red color option... the black would have been fine but well... the blue...




-- also, my Kirk Frameworks is blue too, I kinda like the color it seems.

I'll update as decisions are made and the build continues. Probably not a whole lot will happen other than maybe getting the headset in place.

Update 1/11:

So if you've been following the thread, you'll know that I discovered that the Stragger frameset didn't fit me near as well as I'd first hoped. I didn't pay enough attention to the reach/stack numbers. Totally my fault. Both reach is too long and stack too low for the setup I want with level saddle-bar heights. This is intended to be a fairly upright build, something I can cruise on, ride some gravel, maybe a short 2-3 day tour, etc. The original plan was to strip the Space Horse I have of most of its components which are all silver alloy, so the Straggler's dark blue worked well for that. Shift of plans, the new build will be all new, and I'll try to sell the old bike complete, or strip it down and part it out.

So what's the new plan? Well, another Space Horse. I had a lot of good recommendations and suggestions from other members on alternatives, and indeed several were very valid options, but in the end I decided to go with another All-City, this one the DISC version of the Space Horse. 90% of the reason for the new build was to get away from the cantilever setup I just couldn't get to brake to my satisfaction, the rest of the build was for the most part satisfactory. So here we go with version 2...

Build Kit:

Frame: All-City Space Horse, Creme, 55cm
Wheelset: H PLUS SON Archetype laced to SRAM 900 hubs - Clement LAS 33mm tires for the time being (had them already)
Brakes: TRP Hy/Rd discs
Shifters: Campagnolo Athena 11sp - Black
Front Derailleur: Campagnolo Athena braze on - Black - with Black problem-solvers band
Crankset: FSA Energy Adventure 46/30 - 172.5mm
Rear Derailleur: Shimano RD-M6000-SGS with inline jtek shiftmate #7
Cassette: Shimano 11-34
Stem: Ritchey 100mm
Bars: FSA Adventure - 12mm flare
Seatpost: Ritchey Comp Carbon
Saddle: Prologo
Pedals: Look KeO from the parts pile - I swear I had a set of SPD's somewhere too, but can't find them in the parts boxes.

This will be the smallest %'age Campagnolo build I've got, the first Space Horse had a Veloce compact crank in addition to the shifters and front derailleur. This time I've decided to go sub-compact with the modular FSA Energy. Time will tell if that was a wise decision or not.

cuda2k

While we're waiting for me to make progress on the build, any recommendations on mid-level disc compatible 700c wheels? Prefer a mid-depth, 23+mm wide rim, fairly traditional looking build.

mstateglfr 

velomine would be a great place for these...if you end up using Shimano OR SRAM.
H Plus Son Archetype Road CX Disc Gravel Wheelset SRAM 900 28h [741228] - $369.00 Velomine.com : Worldwide Bicycle Shop, fixed gear track bike wheelsets campagnolo super record vintage bike
H Plus Son Archetype 28h Shimano RS505 Road Disc Brake Wheelset [740934] - $189.00 Velomine.com : Worldwide Bicycle Shop, fixed gear track bike wheelsets campagnolo super record vintage bike

as for campy disc at wheelset at a midlevel price with traditional look...i got nothin. The campy disc wheelsets ive seen that are midlevel priced are all modern low spoke count and staggered placement.
campy disc with traditional look isnt something thst seems too common on here or where i live.

what's 'mid-level' in terms of $?

cuda2k

Wonder if VeloMine can source those with a campy freehub setup of any sort. Haven't touched base with them in years, might have to drop a line and see what they can do. Frame cost me less than $600, so lets' try to stay in the sub-frameset cost. Already talked myself out of a Kirk that was already built that the customer had to back out of - which really is what spurred all this on. "Let's buy a cheap frame before I spend money I really don't have on the frame I'm being tempted by"

cuda2k

Other note, looks like I'm going to have to get the shop to install the headset for me, my DIY press setup just refused to push the cups in straight so going to have to get the 'right tool for the job' or take it somewhere that has it. Won't mess with that until after Christmas though.

Buddha2499

cuda2k

Happy to hear from a fellow owner. Yeah, color is nice. Looked really quite close up against the truck, a tad darker actually, the flake is bigger and more silver, but short of a custom spray it's about as close as one could hope to stumble across. Hoping I enjoy it more than the All-City, it never really found a place in my heart, largely because I didn't trust the brakes (my fault somewhere I'm sure, but trust is difficult to regain), also my choice in tire probably wasn't the best for what I ended up riding it on (45mm Continentals). So trying to be a bit wiser with my choices this time around.

cuda2k

After some mock up and more measuring, not to mention side-by-side comparison of ALL of the geometry numbers for the Stragger against the Space Horse I have now, I've come to the unfortunate realization that the stack is too short and each too long to get a good fit without a major stack of spacers and significantly shorter stem than what I'm running on the Space Horse. So, I'm back to the drawing board on a frameset for this new build. I'm down to the Salsa Vaya, Space Horse Disc, All-City Cosmic Stallion, or as a dark-horse option, the Kona Rove steel. This is what happens when I don't do a billion hours of research before I buy something.

TenGrainBread 

Yeah, it's pretty well-known that the Cross Check/Straggler have pretty long top tubes. The Cross Check is technically a CX bike, so was originally designed to be pretty stretched out. Plus it's a level top tube which means lots of spacers unless you want an aggressive position.

What's wrong with just leaving the steerer long and getting a short stem? Aesthetics? You've already sort of crossed that line by going with a Straggler.

The Vaya has a short top tube (54cm for a 54cm seat tube, vs. the Straggler's 56.5cm for a 54cm seat tube). That along with its top tube slope means it is well-known for giving a compact fit. You'll definitely feel a little more upright than on the other bikes.

The Rove ST (and the other Roves) I would say are by far the best value in of your choices in terms of spec. It should have a shorter effective top tube than the Straggler due to the top tube being sloped.

The All City bikes are very poorly specced for their price point.

cuda2k

I'd need close to 80mm of spacers and a very short stem (~60mm or less possibly). Regardless of what I go with, I'll be getting a bare frameset and doing my own custom build on it. Campy up front, shimano out back, likely an FSA Energy 46/30 in the middle. I recalled crossing the Crosscheck off my list originally back in the day for the long TT and stack, but didn't realize the Straggler wasn't nearly as far separated from it as I'd initially thought.

gus6464

Why those specific steel frames? There are a lot of gravel steel frames out there.

The Rondo Ruut ST frame can take some massive tires
https://www.amaincycling.com/rondo-r...64232?v=756760

Norco Search XR ST frame as well
https://www.norco.com/bikes/dirt-dro...arch-xr-steel/

Otso Walheela S
https://otsocycles.com/products/waheela-s-frameset

Otso Warakin
https://otsocycles.com/products/warakin-frameset

Rodeo Flaanimal 4.1
Flaanimal 4.1 - Rodeo Adventure Labs, LLC


And the list goes on.

mstateglfr 

https://blackmtncycles.com/frames/road-plus/
https://blackmtncycles.com/frames/mcd-frames/

consider either of these, depending on how you genuinely want to ride. One is a gravel and the other is an disc road bike made for 650+ or 32mm 700c tires.
both are thru axle with quality heat treated tubing thats .8/.5/.8 butted which is thinner than your surly.
the stack of both is higher than your surly and the reach is shorter.

cost is similar to surly vs suggesting significantly more expensive options.

cuda2k

All of the suggestions are very good options, but I decided to stick with something with a steel fork, with front rack mounts if ever I wanted to do a short tour, and after one false start on a build, wanted something that was more of a known quantity when it came to fit and feel. So, a 55cm Space Horse Disc is on order from my local shop. Components are ordered and coming in from all over, a few have already arrived. I'll update the first post with the build list in a few... stay tuned.

RocThrower

FWIW, My Space Horse Disc has been absolutely fantastic to ride! Built mine up from a frameset and I ride it about everywhere.

cuda2k

Got a pic of the build?

Koyote

Yep, I am fond of my Space Horse Disc. It's heavy, but such a comfortable and versatile bike.

RocThrower

Maybe not the best pic, but here she is:




Build is mostly used parts, with some new sprinkled here and there.

Frame: 55cm Space Horse Disc
Bottom Bracket: Shimano BBR60
Crank: 5800 50/34, 172.5mm
Shifters - ST-RS685
Brakes - BR-RS785
Front Derauilleur - 5801
Rear Derailleur - 5800 GS
Cassette - 5800 11-32
Wheels - Stan's Grail, 32 Hole F/R
Tires - Schwalbe G-One 35mm, setup tubeless
Seatpost - Easton EA70
Bars - Easton EA70 AX, 42
Saddle - Fabric Scoop Shallow

cuda2k

Looks very similar to how I'm going to end up, with a few minor differences. Can't decide if the rack is going back on from the canti-Space Horse build that I just pulled off, probably keep it off unless needed.

mstateglfr 

Any chance you rode RAGBRAI last year and rocked a huge speaker playing Michael Jackson?

RocThrower

Lol, not me. I'm a lifelong Iowan who still has never ridden even a mile of RAGBRAI.

mstateglfr 

Figured it was a long shot, but wanted to check since you are here in Iowa. Its the only time ive seen this same bike(the paint scheme is memorable).
Fantastic paint, btw. Love the off-white with late 70s/early80s accent colors and pattern. It reminds me of about 6 different road bikes from that period.

RocThrower

Thanks! I really like this paint scheme well. I know All-City takes some flack for reusing some of these old livery paint themes, but I think it's more of an homage to the builders that came before them. This Peugeot is obviously the inspiration for my bike:

mstateglfr 

yup, thats the main one i think of each time.

As for copying old schemes- well how many bikes have been inspired by 'Molteni Orange'? Too many to list. Its nothing new and really shouldnt be a big deal.

cuda2k

All my bikes are old school, even my carbon Fuji has a semi paneled look to it. Everything else I ride is lugged steel (or at least steel with a lug here or there). My custom Kirk Frameworks, if you didn't look at the curved stays and threadless headset, could easily be from the 80's or earlier. Faintly recall the Peugeot striped look from my days as a hard core C&V rider. This build will be the first 'black' component group I've put together, everything else has silver alloy cranks, the true class rides both have alloy bar and stem as well as seat posts, etc. This particular All-City color scheme was originally written off (and thus why I'd started with the Stragger) because I wasn't planning on buying a full setup, but rather pull parts from the canti-lever Space Horse I have (which is true classic light blue and white paneled scheme).

gus6464

With All-City it baffles me why some of their frames like the Macho King have tapered headtubes but the GM is not tapered. Then they put QR spacing on the MK but TA on the GM. I would totally own either of those two frames if it wasn't for those weird design choices.