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2 Questions on my QR Skewer

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2 Questions on my QR Skewer

Old 07-09-19, 10:08 PM
  #1  
puma1552
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2 Questions on my QR Skewer

1) See pic. Is this considered an internal cam skewer? I think it is, but just want to verify it's not an external cam skewer.

2) My rear QR skewer is not smooth upon closing or opening, it's just kinda jerky and not smooth (wheel is seated correctly, no junk in there, etc. - it just isn't a smooth acting lever like the front one). It does tighten up nice and holds the wheel nice and tight, no issues while riding, etc. - just doesn't have that satisfying smooth action when closing or opening, kinda stutters a bit. Anything to be concerned about here?


Last edited by puma1552; 07-09-19 at 10:30 PM.
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Old 07-09-19, 11:27 PM
  #2  
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Originally Posted by puma1552 View Post
1)Is this considered an internal cam skewer?
This article says it's a bit of a cross between internal and external.

https://bikerumor.com/2017/05/16/cam...r-wheelset-qr/


External cam skewer on top, internal cam skewer on bottom.



Last edited by cobba; 07-09-19 at 11:37 PM.
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Old 07-10-19, 12:05 AM
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You might put just a dab of lube on the pivot and where the handle slides against the plate. That usually smooths things nicely.
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Old 07-10-19, 12:05 AM
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It's not really exposed like an external cam; while it's not entirely enclosed either, the guts are pretty much within the body and I cannot see a washer the lever cradles into like you can with a typical external cam.

I figure this is either a pretty well protected external cam, or an internal cam that's a bit less protected than a typical one. I really don't know.

As for my quick release, I decided to go upstairs and open and close it 15-20 times, and it's nice and smooth now - I guess it just needed to be worked in a bit, so no issues there. Maybe it had been sitting around a while at the factory or something, but it's good now.

EDIT: @cobba thanks for posting that link, looks like it is indeed some weird hybrid skewer.

Last edited by puma1552; 07-10-19 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 07-10-19, 01:47 AM
  #5  
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Some lightweight QRs like that, including my old Salsa external cam QRs, are made of aluminum (but not the skewers, which are steel) to save weight. Reportedly some may be titanium but I haven't seen any. They're usually found on weight weenie bikes like my early '90s Trek 5900, which was the lightest production bike ever made at that time. I eyeball bikes at group rides, including Tuesday's, and see a few external or hybrid QRs on carbon fiber and titanium bikes.

Galling (sorta similar to "stiction") can occur with aluminum parts under pressure and friction, which will tend to feel odd when camming under pressure, and can squeak or creak -- especially anodized aluminum parts. I use scented candle wax -- for some reason it seems to work better than oil or grease. It's just paraffin with a solvent that softens it a bit so it's easy to pinch off a bit with a fingertip and smudge it around friction surfaces like external cam QRs or between squeaky spokes.

Some folks don't trust external cam QRs but I don't see any mechanical reason why these won't hold as securely as hidden cam QRs. I wonder whether the bias is just resistance to changing from traditional doodads. So far my lightweight external cam QRs have held as securely as the more familiar steel hidden cam QRs.
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Old 07-10-19, 07:53 AM
  #6  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Some folks don't trust external cam QRs but I don't see any mechanical reason why these won't hold as securely as hidden cam QRs. I wonder whether the bias is just resistance to changing from traditional doodads. So far my lightweight external cam QRs have held as securely as the more familiar steel hidden cam QRs.
External cam skewers can't develop as much clamping force as internal cam skewers. For vertical rear dropouts and rim brake forks, that's not an issue as their clamping force is adequate. The problems arise in frames with horizontal dropouts or disc brake forks where their clamping force can be inadequate to keep the rear wheel positioned properly or keep the front wheel retained in the dropouts. The later then depends on the "lawyer's lips" for wheel retention.
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Old 07-10-19, 08:08 AM
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Exclusive to latest Campagnolo

Which few have , so as to be exact.. But ...

Make sure its tight,, * with vertical dropouts .. fork obviously is ,

rear wheel dropout un shown, probably too, as Indexing needs consistent wheel location .

Its not that big a deal..

* Lever Leaves a mark on the palm of your hand ...






...

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Old 07-10-19, 09:07 AM
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Put me down squarely in the camp of those who would not use that skewer. I'd replace with a Shimano skewer at the first opportunity. You can find the latest Ultegra skewers inexpensively if you know where to look.
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Old 07-12-19, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
External cam skewers can't develop as much clamping force as internal cam skewers. For vertical rear dropouts and rim brake forks, that's not an issue as their clamping force is adequate. The problems arise in frames with horizontal dropouts or disc brake forks where their clamping force can be inadequate to keep the rear wheel positioned properly or keep the front wheel retained in the dropouts. The later then depends on the "lawyer's lips" for wheel retention.
I believe it's more correct to say that external cam skewers require more force to close in order to achieve the same clamping power as an internal cam skewer, but if you're not strength limited, either type of skewer can provide adequate clamping force.

As an aside question.. is there such a thing as using too much clamping force?
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Old 07-12-19, 08:39 AM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by puma1552 View Post
It's not really exposed like an external cam; while it's not entirely enclosed either, the guts are pretty much within the body and I cannot see a washer the lever cradles into like you can with a typical external cam.

I figure this is either a pretty well protected external cam, or an internal cam that's a bit less protected than a typical one. I really don't know.

As for my quick release, I decided to go upstairs and open and close it 15-20 times, and it's nice and smooth now - I guess it just needed to be worked in a bit, so no issues there. Maybe it had been sitting around a while at the factory or something, but it's good now.

EDIT: @cobba thanks for posting that link, looks like it is indeed some weird hybrid skewer.
When my QR's don't work right I always threaten to take 'em upstairs......
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Old 07-12-19, 09:17 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
I believe it's more correct to say that external cam skewers require more force to close in order to achieve the same clamping power as an internal cam skewer, but if you're not strength limited, either type of skewer can provide adequate clamping force.
I'm not sure they can in a practical sense. Most external cam skewers have plastic cam seats and weaker lever pivots. They are made for light weight rather than strength. The lever force needed to equal the clamping force of an internal cam skewer would probably break them.
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Old 07-12-19, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
I believe it's more correct to say that external cam skewers require more force to close in order to achieve the same clamping power as an internal cam skewer, but if you're not strength limited, either type of skewer can provide adequate clamping force.
Internal cam skewers have greater mechanical advantage than external cam skewers, and since the length of the lever arm is pretty much the same on each, it's harder to clamp an external cam skewer effectively on a horizontal dropout.

As an aside question.. is there such a thing as using too much clamping force?
You can exceed the strength of the component parts; e.g. I've seem broken aluminum external cam levers from using a leverage-enhancer ("cheater pipe," wrench, etc.) on the lever to get it to clamp properly on a horizontal dropout.
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Old 07-12-19, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
I'm not sure they can in a practical sense. Most external cam skewers have plastic cam seats and weaker lever pivots. They are made for light weight rather than strength. The lever force needed to equal the clamping force of an internal cam skewer would probably break them.
If you're breaking a skewer, you're applying too much force to close. Granted, I'm sure there are cheap and flimsy versions of external cam skewers -- just as there's probably on the market, a crappy version available of any type of bike component. My 4yr old Zipp external cam skewers have brass and steel parts. This shows up as one the most inexpensive skewers, but I don't see a real flaw in the design:
https://www.excelsports.com/main.asp...jor=1&minor=21

Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
Internal cam skewers have greater mechanical advantage than external cam skewers, and since the length of the lever arm is pretty much the same on each, it's harder to clamp an external cam skewer effectively on a horizontal dropout.

You can exceed the strength of the component parts; e.g. I've seem broken aluminum external cam levers from using a leverage-enhancer ("cheater pipe," wrench, etc.) on the lever to get it to clamp properly on a horizontal dropout.
Yes, I think we all agree, internal cam skewers are easier to use to achieve a given clamping force. I'd also agree that for horizontal dropouts, an internal cam design makes a lot more sense. Though this isn't applicable to the OP.
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Old 07-12-19, 02:19 PM
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So are we all in agreement these are odd hybrid skewers that neither fit definitions of internal or external? I have vertical dropouts and a lawyer tab fork, so I can't imagine I'll have problems using these...I'll also assume Campy did their due diligence in designing them...
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Old 07-12-19, 02:33 PM
  #15  
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I've replaced all my external cam QRs with Ultegras. A few grams is totally worth the peace of mind.
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Old 07-12-19, 06:37 PM
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Same design as Boyd Wheel skewers, got close to 10,000 miles on a set that have been trouble free.
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Old 07-28-19, 10:01 PM
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Any real world pics of the Ultegra 6800 skewers? The interwebz tells me they are dark gray, which seems odd when Shimano running gear is either black or silver. Interwebz pics make it hard to get a feel for the color.

Also, is there an 8000 skewer? Can't seem to find any, not that skewers are probably top priority to redesign with each generation.
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Old 07-28-19, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by puma1552 View Post
Any real world pics of the Ultegra 6800 skewers? The interwebz tells me they are dark gray, which seems odd when Shimano running gear is either black or silver. Interwebz pics make it hard to get a feel for the color.

Also, is there an 8000 skewer? Can't seem to find any, not that skewers are probably top priority to redesign with each generation.
6800 skewers are dark grey. https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-Ul...-Quick-Release
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