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2015 PanAm velodrome update

Old 11-17-14, 02:16 PM
  #51  
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I think I need to immigrate to Canada
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Old 11-17-14, 04:00 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by MarkWW
What would a guy like me need to race at an event like this? I'm guessing they won't be as lenient as FCV about not having an international license. Would I be able to race as a cat 2?
For the international challenge its a UCI event so you would need a UCI license for that. Not sure how you get one in the US, in Canada we dont have a USAC license equivalent so we already use UCI for our licensing (its about $150/year and can be used anywhere in the world generally). As for category, its just elite/jr for this. That said, I dont actually expect too many world class riders to show up, as its right in the middle of worlds and the points would be basically useless to anyone that matters.

Other races, like the 'ontario cup' we have planned in February can be raced under UCI, or under a 1-day permit. Same with all our road events, UCI covers it, otherwise you buy a 1-day (but then you usually can't get points or season standings). Its a big reason why we don't get many US riders here.

the ontario cup races MAY have categories, I have a feeling it will be more like A and B elite, A and B masters, all women. Jr/cadet will have their own races. This year will be lucky to get 1 race in, next winter once panam is over it should be more regular
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Old 11-17-14, 08:07 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by gtrob
For the international challenge its a UCI event so you would need a UCI license for that. Not sure how you get one in the US, in Canada we dont have a USAC license equivalent so we already use UCI for our licensing (its about $150/year and can be used anywhere in the world generally). As for category, its just elite/jr for this. That said, I dont actually expect too many world class riders to show up, as its right in the middle of worlds and the points would be basically useless to anyone that matters.

Other races, like the 'ontario cup' we have planned in February can be raced under UCI, or under a 1-day permit. Same with all our road events, UCI covers it, otherwise you buy a 1-day (but then you usually can't get points or season standings). Its a big reason why we don't get many US riders here.

the ontario cup races MAY have categories, I have a feeling it will be more like A and B elite, A and B masters, all women. Jr/cadet will have their own races. This year will be lucky to get 1 race in, next winter once panam is over it should be more regular
Originally Posted by MarkWW
What would a guy like me need to race at an event like this? I'm guessing they won't be as lenient as FCV about not having an international license. Would I be able to race as a cat 2?
I think a USAC Track Cat 2 alone may be enough. I think if a UCI license were required, it'd say so on the site. But, it sucks that it doesn't say so on the site. USA Cycling has a rule that promoters *must* create an official race flyer and *must* post all details about licenses, race program, fees, payout, etc... in that race flyer. It's almost like a contract. I'm pretty sure this rule came out of people being screwed via ambiguous flyers and traveling to an event and not being allowed to race for some random reason. Actually, come to think of it, racing categories (pro, 1, 2, 3...) were probably created for the same reasons! "We don't know you, so you can't race here."

Edit:

This flyer would also have contact info of the promoter to answer questions JUST LIKE THESE.

Get it together, Milton International!

Last edited by carleton; 11-17-14 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 11-17-14, 08:36 PM
  #54  
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ha, you guys don't know how good you have it in the US. USAC has a LOT going for it that doesn't exist many other places. Ive raced in multiple provinces, states and countries, and USAC, while I am sure has things that could be better, is the best by far that I personally have dealt with. Our costs are insane (average road race is about $80, often over $100), our licensing sucks, and promotion is hit or miss, and we make it very hard for out of town riders.


But anyway, I am 99% sure you will need a UCI license for this event, however there may be 1 day permits to get you in. There will be a tech guide, but Im not kidding when it may be the day of or a few days before, so don't wait for it. I will contact them though and post back on US riders, as I know a few people that may want to come. For the O-cup, 100% there will be a 1-day permit.

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4, align: center"]2015 Ontario & Youth Cup Schedule[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 217, align: center"]Saturday 17[SUP]th[/SUP][/TD]
[TD="width: 88, align: center"]January[/TD]
[TD="width: 155, align: center"]Track Youth Cup #1[/TD]
[TD="width: 160, align: center"]Mattamy National Cycling Centre[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 217, align: center"]Friday 13[SUP]th[/SUP] / Saturday 14[SUP]th[/SUP][/TD]
[TD="width: 88, align: center"]February[/TD]
[TD="width: 155, align: center"]Track O-Cup #2[/TD]
[TD="width: 160, align: center"]Mattamy National Cycling Centre[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 217, align: center"]Saturday 21[SUP]st[/SUP][/TD]
[TD="width: 88, align: center"]February[/TD]
[TD="width: 155, align: center"]Track Youth Cup Finale[/TD]
[TD="width: 160, align: center"]Mattamy National Cycling Centre[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 217, align: center"]Friday 10[SUP]th[/SUP] / Saturday 11[SUP]th[/SUP] / Sunday 12[SUP]th[/SUP][/TD]
[TD="width: 88, align: center"]April[/TD]
[TD="width: 155, align: center"]Ontario Track Provincial Championships[/TD]
[TD="width: 160, align: center"]Mattamy National Cycling Centre[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
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Old 11-17-14, 09:19 PM
  #55  
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Yeah, it looks like it's a UCI C1 event. I was already planning on getting the UCI international license for next year, anyhow. There were a few races in the US this year that I couldn't do because I didn't have the international license (how does that make sense?). I just wasn't sure about the category thing. I'm amazed a C1 race can be an open field. I figured there'd be a P/1 or P/1/2 restriction. I'll shoot them an email to confirm.

Thanks!
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Old 11-17-14, 09:24 PM
  #56  
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The problem is a lot of places dont have categories, or dont use them. So in Canada we dont have a points/upgrade system to upgrade with anyway (yet)
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Old 11-18-14, 02:47 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Velocirapture
I think I need to immigrate to Canada
Come to Australia. Can ride year round and we have 6 indoor velodromes plus over 100 outdoor tracks around the country...
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Old 11-19-14, 08:47 AM
  #58  
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Milton Velo-delayome!!!
Sigh, it’s been delayed again… The opening ceremony has been postponed from November 29[SUP]th[/SUP] to February 16[SUP]th[/SUP] (Family Day)…
Milton velodrome opening event postponed

The Velo programs have also been postponed… Darn these construction delays, I was really looking forward to the track.
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Old 11-19-14, 09:03 AM
  #59  
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Yes its getting very frustrating, as the track itself is ready, and the building is actually very close, but the delays are for the rest of the facilities and to be honest, they dont have the staff ready.

BUT, its only another month and over the holidays. And the events are apparently still on, but Ill sort of believe it when I see it at this point.
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Old 11-19-14, 09:39 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by gtrob
Yes its getting very frustrating, as the track itself is ready, and the building is actually very close, but the delays are for the rest of the facilities and to be honest, they dont have the staff ready.

BUT, its only another month and over the holidays. And the events are apparently still on, but Ill sort of believe it when I see it at this point.
Do you have an experienced Track Director? Like a person who has directed a different track for a significant period of time?

This is *very* important.

Opening a velodrome is like opening a restaurant. There are only a few ways to get things right and running smoothly and a LOT of ways to mess it up.
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Old 11-19-14, 10:42 AM
  #61  
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We actually poached a guy who was running a track in Australia who moved here earlier this year. Its a big project, its not just a track, its a 70mil stadium. You hear about these kinds of things with every olympics and there are probably 1000 issues they have run into. We also had one of the worst winters in history last year right when were starting construction, so we were behind from day 1.

But Pan Am games is the real reason this place was built, which isn't until July. Then there is a 20 year commitment for funding afterward. Opening in January vs November really won't matter in the long run.


As a side note, they list the financials on the site. The place estimates it will cost $1.2m US/year to run, in case anyone was wondering what it costs to run a velodrome!
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Old 11-19-14, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by gtrob
We actually poached a guy who was running a track in Australia who moved here earlier this year.
Nice!
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Old 11-19-14, 11:25 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by gtrob
As a side note, they list the financials on the site. The place estimates it will cost $1.2m US/year to run, in case anyone was wondering what it costs to run a velodrome!
can you link me to this? i'm curious, and can't find it.
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Old 11-19-14, 11:52 AM
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Its a little buried in the FAQs

Frequently Asked Questions - Milton Velodrome

"The year one annualized net costs (2016) are estimated at $1,146,000. The Government of Canada and the Government of Ontario have confirmed that the Town of Milton will receive $736,000 per year for a 20-year period to offset these operating costs (including capital replacement costs) for the Centre. This will result in approximate operating costs of up to $410,000 per year."


Im not really sure where the membership fees and rental fees factor into that.
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Old 11-19-14, 12:22 PM
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I saw a pamphlet earlier that mentioned that it'll cost each resident of the town about $4 a year in taxes to support the operation. They were also lucky to get some decent donation from Mattamy - a local builder for residential properties who's currently building almost 60-70% of the new homes under construction.

Here's an interesting comparison of how various per capita costs compare:
Per capita costs according to facility:
[TABLE="width: 675"]
[TR]
[TD]Milton Seniors' Activity Centre
[/TD]
[TD]$1.79
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Milton Leisure Centre
[/TD]
[TD]$2.30
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mattamy National Cycling Centre
[/TD]
[TD]$4.10
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Milton Centre for the Arts
[/TD]
[TD]$4.72
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Milton Sports Centre
[/TD]
[TD]$5.84
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Milton Public Library - Beaty Branch
[/TD]
[TD]$5.89
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Last edited by myth001; 11-19-14 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 11-21-14, 10:48 PM
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Request for 2 tickets to the Pan Am games medal session of the omnium and sprint have been confirmed Now all I need to do is find a clever way to surprise my dad with the news at Christmas
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Old 11-22-14, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by sstang13
Request for 2 tickets to the Pan Am games medal session of the omnium and sprint have been confirmed Now all I need to do is find a clever way to surprise my dad with the news at Christmas
I'm sure you'll find a way.
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Old 11-24-14, 11:00 AM
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The certification and training courses also keep getting postponed again and again. So, to make it up for the ppl in waiting, they're being offered freebees. I've just been offered 2 tickets to Canadian National Track Championships, and a month free in the fitness centre.

Are others also getting such offers?

I don't mind the fitness centre, but I'd rather have got some in-velo credit that I could use towards bike rentals, or discounts towards seasonal membership.
Track Championship will nice to watch to get me introduced to the track events. Hopefully no more postponements.
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Old 11-24-14, 11:02 AM
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Uh-oh! Looks like Milton lost one event that was due in their new Velo to Burnaby. Sigh, the perils of construction delays...
Junior track nationals under the dome - Sports - Burnaby Now
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Old 11-24-14, 11:22 AM
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Jr nationals were pushed up because if they raced Jan 3rd, a lot of kids would be bumped up a year (you race the age you are that year, starting jan1). Really screwed kids who needed to get carded, so they last minute had them race in Burnaby.
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Old 11-24-14, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by gtrob
Track is finished and has been ridden (not by me unfortunately..)



Wow looks so fresh 'n clean with no advertisement on the timber (yet?). Great thread!
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Old 11-27-14, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by myth001
The certification and training courses also keep getting postponed again and again. So, to make it up for the ppl in waiting, they're being offered freebees. I've just been offered 2 tickets to Canadian National Track Championships, and a month free in the fitness centre.

Are others also getting such offers?
Yep. A member of my club and I both got the same offer. I presume it's pretty universal to fill the seats.

On a side note, I've learned why the tickets for the games were so pricey. Apparently, Pan Am used the cost model from the London Olympics as a guide to set prices. I'm not sure if anyone realized that track cycling in the UK is WAAAYYY more popular. That being said, apparently ticket demand for the track was decent so it didn't effect sales that much. There should be some left when they go on sale more broadly if anyone wants to pick up a few tix.
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Old 11-27-14, 04:51 PM
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I just watched a DVD called The Six-Day Bicycle Races which showed the history of track racing in the early 20th century. Some wooden velodromes were built in ten hours for single events. Then they were taken apart by saw, with the wood sold as firewood.
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Old 11-27-14, 05:27 PM
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This wood was flown in from Siberia and has a $1million price tag. That would be an expensive camp fire


The price of Pan-am tickets kept me away for the time being. something like $160 for good seats medal round? yikes

FYI anyone who wants to SEE racing like that, the milton challenge should still bring some big racers. Maybe not this year, but next year it will be at a more appropriate date (fall) and should be a good CL1 pre-worlds event. Oh yeah, they are already talking about getting a world cup
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Old 11-27-14, 06:20 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by noglider
I just watched a DVD called The Six-Day Bicycle Races which showed the history of track racing in the early 20th century. Some wooden velodromes were built in ten hours for single events. Then they were taken apart by saw, with the wood sold as firewood.
Wow. Not sure if I should be impress or scared for the riders and spectators!
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