Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Shogun 200: Is it supposed to look like that?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Shogun 200: Is it supposed to look like that?

Old 09-27-19, 11:47 AM
  #1  
TriBiker19 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
TriBiker19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: NH/MA
Posts: 313

Bikes: '82 Fuji Supreme, '85 Shogun 200, '87 Centurion Ironman, 89' Centurion Ironman

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 170 Post(s)
Liked 93 Times in 60 Posts
Shogun 200: Is it supposed to look like that?

I finally got around to cleaning my bike, since I knew nothing about bike maintenance until recently and my LBS didn't mention that I might want to strip all that gunk off my chain and gears. I noticed that some of the prongs are shorter than others. I compared it to my husband's Giant Sedona and my Ironman and neither of them have this "feature" (defect?).

Attached is the picture after 2 cleaning passes to illustrate what I'm talking about. Also attached is a photo of what it looked like when I got it back from my LBS after a "tune-up". I still have at least one more cleaning pass to go on the bike.

My other issue is when I lower the shifter on the right side, if I go too far, I can completely derail the chain--can I adjust so that doesn't happen or just be more careful?


TriBiker19 is online now  
Old 09-27-19, 12:03 PM
  #2  
Phil_gretz
Journeyman Bike Commuter
 
Phil_gretz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 5,238

Bikes: '71 Jeunet 630, '79 Peugeot PXN10LE, '88 Fuji Saratoga, '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '16 Motobecane Gran Premio Elite, '18 Velobuild VB-R-022

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 669 Post(s)
Liked 163 Times in 102 Posts
Are you saying that you had a bike shop "tune" your bike, and that it can still overshift on one side of the rear cogs? Take it back to them. There are two screws on each derailleur that are adjusted to limit travel to just meet the outer and inner alignment points. The bike shop should have checked these first.

As for cleaning, unless you paid the shop for this, any cleaning that they did is a benefit to you. You should keep your bike clean and well lubricated on your own. It's part of operation, just like pumping up the tires.
Phil_gretz is offline  
Old 09-27-19, 12:11 PM
  #3  
SurferRosa
Senior Member
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,320

Bikes: old school 531c & campy

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 564 Post(s)
Liked 208 Times in 130 Posts
Is the op defining "prongs" as teeth on the 5-speed rear cluster?

If the chain doesn't skip, it's probably fine.
SurferRosa is offline  
Old 09-27-19, 12:11 PM
  #4  
TenGrainBread 
Senior Member
 
TenGrainBread's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 2,262

Bikes: Cherubim, Alps, a few Schwinns

Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 906 Post(s)
Liked 209 Times in 142 Posts
As Phil says I would take it back to the shop and ask them to adjust the limit screws on the derailleur. Those are meant to stop the chain from shifting entirely off the freewheel. This should be one of the basic things they do as part of any tune up. Giving the bike a decent cleaning is also generally what's included in a basic tune up. I'm surprised whoever completed the "tune-up" didn't degrease your freewheel cogs a little bit, and at least get the built-up gunk off your derailleur pulleys. I'd be skeptical they touched the drivetrain at all if that's what your derailleur, chain, and freewheel came away looking like in the second picture. I'd take it back and show them the picture. As a former service mechanic I'd call that unacceptable.

Regarding the "short" teeth on the big cog there - that is normal and there by design. The theory was it helps the chain engage the large cog when shifting into it, normally a somewhat difficult shift due to the size of the last cog.

Lastly - nice job cleaning that area up. Just be wary with using a lot of degreaser around the freewheel - there are a lot of bearings inside the freewheel and inside the rear hub that need grease, and spraying that area down with a ton of degreaser or soapy water or solvent might dissolve some of the grease. I'll generally take the freewheel off the hub if I want to deep clean it.
TenGrainBread is online now  
Old 09-27-19, 12:36 PM
  #5  
AeroGut 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 29 Times in 23 Posts
Maybe not directly relevant to your question, but it looks like your derailleur hanger is missing the bolt that holds it in the dropout. It shouldnít be held on just by the axle nut. The way it is now it can end up in a slightly different position if you take the wheel off and put it back on, which could affect the shifting and limit adjustments.
For example this is an image of a derailleur hanger with the appropriate hardware: https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-spa...acket/?geoc=US
The funny shaped thing on the back slides into the dropout and the bolt holds everything in place.
AeroGut is offline  
Old 09-27-19, 12:51 PM
  #6  
TriBiker19 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
TriBiker19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: NH/MA
Posts: 313

Bikes: '82 Fuji Supreme, '85 Shogun 200, '87 Centurion Ironman, 89' Centurion Ironman

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 170 Post(s)
Liked 93 Times in 60 Posts
Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
Is the op defining "prongs" as teeth on the 5-speed rear cluster?

If the chain doesn't skip, it's probably fine.
It will randomly change gears while I'm riding. I was trying to figure out if that's an issue with the non-uniform teeth or with the derailer.
TriBiker19 is online now  
Old 09-27-19, 01:41 PM
  #7  
BFisher
Senior Member
 
BFisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: NEPA
Posts: 595

Bikes: '61 Schwinn Klunker, '68 Hercules Klapprad, '71 Peugeot UO8, '78 Motobecane Grand Jubile, '79 Motobecane Grand Sprint, '87 Ironman Expert, '89 Puch Mistral Leader, '92 Trek 930

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked 133 Times in 93 Posts
Originally Posted by TriBiker19 View Post
It will randomly change gears while I'm riding. I was trying to figure out if that's an issue with the non-uniform teeth or with the derailer.
Random gear changes can sometimes be attributed to loose shift levers. If the lever is too loose, the tension on the cable is enough to move it back to the last gear.

And yes, as mentioned, your derailleur hanger is missing a bolt and nut. I may have a spare. PM me your address and I will send you one if I have it.

Last edited by BFisher; 09-27-19 at 01:44 PM.
BFisher is offline  
Old 09-27-19, 02:19 PM
  #8  
BFisher
Senior Member
 
BFisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: NEPA
Posts: 595

Bikes: '61 Schwinn Klunker, '68 Hercules Klapprad, '71 Peugeot UO8, '78 Motobecane Grand Jubile, '79 Motobecane Grand Sprint, '87 Ironman Expert, '89 Puch Mistral Leader, '92 Trek 930

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked 133 Times in 93 Posts
I have the bolt. Came off the same derailleur as yours.

It's yours if you want it.
BFisher is offline  
Old 09-27-19, 02:34 PM
  #9  
TriBiker19 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
TriBiker19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: NH/MA
Posts: 313

Bikes: '82 Fuji Supreme, '85 Shogun 200, '87 Centurion Ironman, 89' Centurion Ironman

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 170 Post(s)
Liked 93 Times in 60 Posts
Originally Posted by TenGrainBread View Post
As Phil says I would take it back to the shop and ask them to adjust the limit screws on the derailleur. Those are meant to stop the chain from shifting entirely off the freewheel. This should be one of the basic things they do as part of any tune up. Giving the bike a decent cleaning is also generally what's included in a basic tune up. I'm surprised whoever completed the "tune-up" didn't degrease your freewheel cogs a little bit, and at least get the built-up gunk off your derailleur pulleys. I'd be skeptical they touched the drivetrain at all if that's what your derailleur, chain, and freewheel came away looking like in the second picture. I'd take it back and show them the picture. As a former service mechanic I'd call that unacceptable.

Regarding the "short" teeth on the big cog there - that is normal and there by design. The theory was it helps the chain engage the large cog when shifting into it, normally a somewhat difficult shift due to the size of the last cog.

Lastly - nice job cleaning that area up. Just be wary with using a lot of degreaser around the freewheel - there are a lot of bearings inside the freewheel and inside the rear hub that need grease, and spraying that area down with a ton of degreaser or soapy water or solvent might dissolve some of the grease. I'll generally take the freewheel off the hub if I want to deep clean it.
My husband said that he was going to re-pack the hub...which I wish he would have told me before I went and cleaned the darn thing with the bike all together. It would have been so much easier with it disassembled. It was so dirty that I had to put a lot of degreaser in and scrub several times. Thanks for the reminder, though.

As for the LBS...I'm not going back. Besides the condition of the drivetrain, he missed that my tire sidewalls were peeling and told me I was good to go and the bike didn't need anything. I just don't trust him. He missed a little too much for me to think the tuneup was worth the money--I'm not sure he did anything.
TriBiker19 is online now  
Old 09-27-19, 02:36 PM
  #10  
RobbieTunes 
Half drunk? Finish!
 
RobbieTunes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Very Southern Indiana
Posts: 26,556
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 364 Post(s)
Liked 582 Times in 372 Posts
Originally Posted by TriBiker19 View Post
It will randomly change gears while I'm riding. I was trying to figure out if that's an issue with the non-uniform teeth or with the derailer.
Gremlins.
__________________
Robbie ♪♫♪...☻
I have unfinished business.

RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 09-27-19, 02:39 PM
  #11  
RobbieTunes 
Half drunk? Finish!
 
RobbieTunes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Very Southern Indiana
Posts: 26,556
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 364 Post(s)
Liked 582 Times in 372 Posts
Originally Posted by AeroGut View Post
Maybe not directly relevant to your question, but it looks like your derailleur hanger is missing the bolt that holds it in the dropout. It shouldn’t be held on just by the axle nut. The way it is now it can end up in a slightly different position if you take the wheel off and put it back on, which could affect the shifting and limit adjustments.
For example this is an image of a derailleur hanger with the appropriate hardware: https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-spa...acket/?geoc=US
The funny shaped thing on the back slides into the dropout and the bolt holds everything in place.
First thing I noticed. Some dropouts just have nub there, but that looks like it needs a threaded bolt.
I think the threads are in both the claw and the frame on some, and just in the frame on others, right?
__________________
Robbie ♪♫♪...☻
I have unfinished business.

RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 09-27-19, 02:39 PM
  #12  
TriBiker19 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
TriBiker19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: NH/MA
Posts: 313

Bikes: '82 Fuji Supreme, '85 Shogun 200, '87 Centurion Ironman, 89' Centurion Ironman

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 170 Post(s)
Liked 93 Times in 60 Posts
Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Gremlins.
Crud. I forgot about the rule and fed it after midnight.
TriBiker19 is online now  
Old 09-28-19, 10:56 AM
  #13  
RobbieTunes 
Half drunk? Finish!
 
RobbieTunes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Very Southern Indiana
Posts: 26,556
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 364 Post(s)
Liked 582 Times in 372 Posts
Originally Posted by TriBiker19 View Post
Crud. I forgot about the rule and fed it after midnight.
Keep the microwave plugged in.
__________________
Robbie ♪♫♪...☻
I have unfinished business.

RobbieTunes is offline  
Likes For RobbieTunes:
Old 09-28-19, 03:04 PM
  #14  
AeroGut 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 29 Times in 23 Posts
Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
First thing I noticed. Some dropouts just have nub there, but that looks like it needs a threaded bolt.
I think the threads are in both the claw and the frame on some, and just in the frame on others, right?
Actually, the bolt threads into a nut that looks like a nearly flat washer (look at the reverse view of the one for sale in the link). The nut/disc thing sits on the back side of the dropout so when the bolt is tight, the nut and the derailleur squeeze the dropout and hold the claw in place, even if you remove the wheel. With the wheel in place, you have two points of attachment for the claw, so it can't rotate.

A lot of people get confused by the fact that properly attaching the claw places it in such a way that the axle cannot be moved all the way back in the dropout. They expect the claw to go farther back, so they do weird things like putting the bolt into a fender mount hole.
AeroGut is offline  
Old 09-28-19, 03:27 PM
  #15  
BFisher
Senior Member
 
BFisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: NEPA
Posts: 595

Bikes: '61 Schwinn Klunker, '68 Hercules Klapprad, '71 Peugeot UO8, '78 Motobecane Grand Jubile, '79 Motobecane Grand Sprint, '87 Ironman Expert, '89 Puch Mistral Leader, '92 Trek 930

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked 133 Times in 93 Posts
These are the parts:


The smaller diameter section of the nut goes in the axle slot of the dropout. The bolt goes through the small hole in the claw.
I have several - will send one for free.
BFisher is offline  
Old 09-28-19, 03:38 PM
  #16  
TriBiker19 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
TriBiker19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: NH/MA
Posts: 313

Bikes: '82 Fuji Supreme, '85 Shogun 200, '87 Centurion Ironman, 89' Centurion Ironman

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 170 Post(s)
Liked 93 Times in 60 Posts
Originally Posted by AeroGut View Post
Actually, the bolt threads into a nut that looks like a nearly flat washer (look at the reverse view of the one for sale in the link). The nut/disc thing sits on the back side of the dropout so when the bolt is tight, the nut and the derailleur squeeze the dropout and hold the claw in place, even if you remove the wheel. With the wheel in place, you have two points of attachment for the claw, so it can't rotate.

A lot of people get confused by the fact that properly attaching the claw places it in such a way that the axle cannot be moved all the way back in the dropout. They expect the claw to go farther back, so they do weird things like putting the bolt into a fender mount hole.
Do you have a picture of what the whole thing should look like? He just put it back together and while I need to adjust the derailleur because the chain rubs in certain gears and the back won't give me full range of gears, I have to figure out what we're aiming for. Husband did find a bolt/nut at the hardware store that fit, and he placed it as you described.

This is current.
TriBiker19 is online now  
Old 09-28-19, 04:00 PM
  #17  
BFisher
Senior Member
 
BFisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: NEPA
Posts: 595

Bikes: '61 Schwinn Klunker, '68 Hercules Klapprad, '71 Peugeot UO8, '78 Motobecane Grand Jubile, '79 Motobecane Grand Sprint, '87 Ironman Expert, '89 Puch Mistral Leader, '92 Trek 930

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked 133 Times in 93 Posts



Apologies for the blurriness, but this is how it goes together.
BFisher is offline  
Old 09-28-19, 04:42 PM
  #18  
TriBiker19 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
TriBiker19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: NH/MA
Posts: 313

Bikes: '82 Fuji Supreme, '85 Shogun 200, '87 Centurion Ironman, 89' Centurion Ironman

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 170 Post(s)
Liked 93 Times in 60 Posts
Originally Posted by BFisher View Post



Apologies for the blurriness, but this is how it goes together.
That's awesome, thank you! The back nut isn't exactly what we have. We went with what we could get quick because he didn't want to reassemble the bike without the missing nut there in some fashion. Right now the part won't shift around, but if we remove the wheel it will fall off. I have a training ride and run tomorrow, so I needed it put back together.

Everything else looks kosher in my picture? We cleaned and repacked the hub yesterday. It rides better than it ever has.
TriBiker19 is online now  
Old 09-28-19, 05:01 PM
  #19  
BFisher
Senior Member
 
BFisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: NEPA
Posts: 595

Bikes: '61 Schwinn Klunker, '68 Hercules Klapprad, '71 Peugeot UO8, '78 Motobecane Grand Jubile, '79 Motobecane Grand Sprint, '87 Ironman Expert, '89 Puch Mistral Leader, '92 Trek 930

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked 133 Times in 93 Posts
As far as I can tell it looks fine. I've had good experiences with freewheels like yours - nice shifting if all else is up to par.

Double check that the limit screws are set to prevent you from shifting the chain past the last cog.

Good luck with your training.
BFisher is offline  
Likes For BFisher:
Old 09-28-19, 06:21 PM
  #20  
FlMTNdude
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Gainesville FL
Posts: 446

Bikes: 1988 Panasonic

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 20 Posts
Originally Posted by TriBiker19 View Post
It will randomly change gears while I'm riding. I was trying to figure out if that's an issue with the non-uniform teeth or with the derailer.
Could also be a chain issue. I have the odd issue that my bike does not like KMC, but loves the SRAM chains.
FlMTNdude is offline  
Old 09-28-19, 07:40 PM
  #21  
TriBiker19 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
TriBiker19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: NH/MA
Posts: 313

Bikes: '82 Fuji Supreme, '85 Shogun 200, '87 Centurion Ironman, 89' Centurion Ironman

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 170 Post(s)
Liked 93 Times in 60 Posts
Originally Posted by FlMTNdude View Post
Could also be a chain issue. I have the odd issue that my bike does not like KMC, but loves the SRAM chains.
Would that have started suddenly? It seems like it wasn't slipping from gear to gear until recently. I haven't dumped it, but I was quite a bit slower before I got to know the bike and started pushing it. Or might it still be chain and pushing it made the problem manifest?
TriBiker19 is online now  
Old 09-28-19, 07:55 PM
  #22  
FlMTNdude
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Gainesville FL
Posts: 446

Bikes: 1988 Panasonic

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 20 Posts
Originally Posted by TriBiker19 View Post
Would that have started suddenly? It seems like it wasn't slipping from gear to gear until recently. I haven't dumped it, but I was quite a bit slower before I got to know the bike and started pushing it. Or might it still be chain and pushing it made the problem manifest?
I am no mechanic but do my own work, but if I havenít checked my chain and it is worn, it will tell me. But there are other things besides that to check, chains are just relatively cheap and easy to replace, so worth a shot.
FlMTNdude is offline  
Old 09-28-19, 08:06 PM
  #23  
TriBiker19 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
TriBiker19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: NH/MA
Posts: 313

Bikes: '82 Fuji Supreme, '85 Shogun 200, '87 Centurion Ironman, 89' Centurion Ironman

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 170 Post(s)
Liked 93 Times in 60 Posts
Originally Posted by FlMTNdude View Post
I am no mechanic but do my own work, but if I havenít checked my chain and it is worn, it will tell me. But there are other things besides that to check, chains are just relatively cheap and easy to replace, so worth a shot.
But I just cleaned this one!

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll adjust the derailleurs and then see if it's still slipping. If it is, I'll get a chain for my next step.
__________________
I was going to have a good signature but apparently I'm too verbose.
TriBiker19 is online now  
Old 09-28-19, 08:45 PM
  #24  
clubman
Youngman Grand
 
clubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,825

Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic

Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1118 Post(s)
Liked 110 Times in 93 Posts
How big's that large cog? At 32 and over, you're maybe pushing the limits of that derailleur.
clubman is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.