Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

New MUP Trail Stuff

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

New MUP Trail Stuff

Old 09-21-19, 01:26 PM
  #1  
MNebiker
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: MN
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 14 Posts
New MUP Trail Stuff

As a trail rider, I really enjoy the weekly MUP trail frustration threads. They are more fun than reading Dunesburry and Dilbert combined!

But - guys and gals, we are in a rut. The same old stuff gets repeated over and over. In the past weeks there have been numerous threads covering:

Cyclists - fast & slow, riding no hands, riding in packs, cutting blind corners, in wrong lane, on phones, weaving all over the trail
Dogs - off leash, on long leashes, multiple groups of dogs, dogs that try to bite
Joggers & Walkers - in wrong lanes, wearing earbuds, talking to each other, moving wrong way when warned of passing
Cell phone addicts - on foot or on 2 wheels
Family groups - walking or on bikes, with little kids on first bikes, stopped in the middle of the trail
Moms - pushing strollers side by side or stopped on the trail to tend to the kids
Generalized rudeness or unconcious behaviour by any of the above
Crosswalks - cars don't stop,cyclists cross without lookiing
Bells vs. "On the left"
Flashing headlights
Electric bikes - ban or allow, speed issues

So - let's see if we can come up with something new and different. What is the strange NEW thing you have encountered on the trails.

Here's my nomination to open the list: Two weeks ago I encountered a young lady who had spread out her beach towel and was sunbathing on the trail.
MNebiker is offline  
Old 09-21-19, 01:41 PM
  #2  
Ghazmh
Senior Member
 
Ghazmh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Waltham Ma
Posts: 1,098

Bikes: 2019 Honey Allroads Ti, 2018 Seven Redsky XX, 2017 Trek Boon 7, 2016 Soma Smoothie, 2014 Trek 520, 2006 Gary Fisher Montare

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 325 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times in 30 Posts
Boycott MUP’s.
Ghazmh is online now  
Likes For Ghazmh:
Old 09-21-19, 02:46 PM
  #3  
wolfchild
Senior Member
 
wolfchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 5,750

Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1475 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 143 Times in 89 Posts
I don't have any complaints about MUPS here in my suburbs where I live and ride...MUPS make my daily commutes a lot easier, and I get to avoid some of the busy arterial roads with speeding cars and distracted drivers plus I get to enjoy some nature along the way. Seeing coywolves early in the morning or evening makes me feel happy...I just don't get it why so many bikeforums cyclists demonize MUPS and other people who use MUPS...I never had problems with walkers, strollers, joggers... and dogs which are on the leash most of the time.
wolfchild is offline  
Old 09-21-19, 03:17 PM
  #4  
badger1
Senior Member
 
badger1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 4,169
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1060 Post(s)
Liked 106 Times in 77 Posts
Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
i don't have any complaints about mups here in my suburbs where i live and ride...mups make my daily commutes a lot easier, and i get to avoid some of the busy arterial roads with speeding cars and distracted drivers plus i get to enjoy some nature along the way. Seeing coywolves early in the morning or evening makes me feel happy...i just don't get it why so many bikeforums cyclists demonize mups and other people who use mups...i never had problems with walkers, strollers, joggers... And dogs which are on the leash most of the time.
+1000
badger1 is offline  
Old 09-21-19, 03:44 PM
  #5  
Gconan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 355

Bikes: Norco search xr

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
Liked 34 Times in 15 Posts
Multiple use paths and Greenway are cool!
Gconan is offline  
Old 09-21-19, 03:49 PM
  #6  
Miele Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,452

Bikes: Miele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno SL, Miele MTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, VeloSport Adamas AX

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked 109 Times in 81 Posts
Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
I don't have any complaints about MUPS here in my suburbs where I live and ride...MUPS make my daily commutes a lot easier, and I get to avoid some of the busy arterial roads with speeding cars and distracted drivers plus I get to enjoy some nature along the way. Seeing coywolves early in the morning or evening makes me feel happy...I just don't get it why so many bikeforums cyclists demonize MUPS and other people who use MUPS...I never had problems with walkers, strollers, joggers... and dogs which are on the leash most of the time.
You have been incredibly lucky. I avoid MUPs because far too many people walk their dogs on very long retractable leashes that act as a take-down device for bicyclists when the dog is on one side of the path and the owner/walker is on the other side and the thin leash is across the path and is darn near invisible until you're right on top if it. This is not to mention the ultra-fast riding bicylcists and e-bikers who buzz you as they pass.

Cheers
Miele Man is online now  
Old 09-21-19, 03:53 PM
  #7  
Ross520
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 23 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
I don't have any complaints about MUPS here in my suburbs where I live and ride...MUPS make my daily commutes a lot easier, and I get to avoid some of the busy arterial roads with speeding cars and distracted drivers plus I get to enjoy some nature along the way. Seeing coywolves early in the morning or evening makes me feel happy...I just don't get it why so many bikeforums cyclists demonize MUPS and other people who use MUPS...I never had problems with walkers, strollers, joggers... and dogs which are on the leash most of the time.
Agreed.

Every once-in-a-while I'll have an issue, but usually I have an enjoyable, safe, ride.

How many MUP deaths do you hear about every year? I can't think of any.

And for me personally, I can't stand riding in traffic. It's not just the inherit danger of being struck, but the exhaust fumes as well. Everytime a car passes by you're breathing in harmful carcinogens.

We should be grateful of MUPs. It's a safe way to ride in the fresh air and observe nature.
Ross520 is offline  
Likes For Ross520:
Old 09-21-19, 03:56 PM
  #8  
cyclist2000
Senior Member
 
cyclist2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Up
Posts: 3,890

Bikes: Masi, Giant TCR, Eisentraut, Jamis Aurora Elite, Zullo (trainer bike), Cannondale, 84 Stumpjumper, 2 Waterfords, Tern D8, Bianchi, Gunner Roadie, looking for a Ti frame and Brompton M6R

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 156 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 38 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
You have been incredibly lucky. I avoid MUPs because far too many people walk their dogs on very long retractable leashes that act as a take-down device for bicyclists when the dog is on one side of the path and the owner/walker is on the other side and the thin leash is across the path and is darn near invisible until you're right on top if it. This is not to mention the ultra-fast riding bicylcists and e-bikers who buzz you as they pass.

Cheers
Where I get on the MUP near the house, heading north goes right through the city that has lots of people walking, skate boarding and other stuff. I ride to the south where there long stretches of farms or open areas. There are a lot less walkers or activity, except cyclists that direction.
cyclist2000 is offline  
Likes For cyclist2000:
Old 09-21-19, 04:12 PM
  #9  
Alleytom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 109

Bikes: 92 GT Arette, 83 Le Tour, 78 Paramount, 70 something Benotto 800 (project bike)

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Ross520 View Post
Agreed.

Every once-in-a-while I'll have an issue, but usually I have an enjoyable, safe, ride.

How many MUP deaths do you hear about every year? I can't think of any.

And for me personally, I can't stand riding in traffic. It's not just the inherit danger of being struck, but the exhaust fumes as well. Everytime a car passes by you're breathing in harmful carcinogens.

We should be grateful of MUPs. It's a safe way to ride in the fresh air and observe nature.
You are exactly right, I've made some observations about the other people on the Canal trails I ride here, but any issues really are few and far between. This morning three cyclists were struck by a hit and run driver in Chandler on Riggs Road, that is exactly why I stick to the trails... Luckily their injuries are not life threatening.
Alleytom is offline  
Old 09-21-19, 05:28 PM
  #10  
Witterings
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Witterings, West Sussex
Posts: 1,035
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 554 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 22 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by MNebiker View Post

Here's my nomination to open the list: Two weeks ago I encountered a young lady who had spread out her beach towel and was sunbathing on the trail.
If you just cycled on by you may have missed an opportunity ... If it was on an MUP regularly frequented by cyclists she may have been waiting for someone in Lycra to stop and say "Hello" **********
Witterings is offline  
Old 09-21-19, 05:59 PM
  #11  
sumgy
Senior Member
 
sumgy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 738
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 356 Post(s)
Liked 74 Times in 52 Posts
Boycott whiney posts by people who struggle to fit in with normal society.
sumgy is offline  
Likes For sumgy:
Old 09-21-19, 08:40 PM
  #12  
Slightspeed
Senior Member
 
Slightspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,829

Bikes: 1961 Legnano Gran Premio, 1964 Legnano Roma Olympiade, 1973 Raleigh Super Course, 1978 Raleigh Super Course, 1978 Peugeot PR10, 2002 Specialized Allez, 2007 Specialized Roubaix, 2013 Culprit Croz Blade

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 565 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 246 Times in 153 Posts
Anybody else ever see this guy? This was north of Ventura on the path that parallels 101. He is a South African guy towing a fullsize fiberglas rhino the down entire west coast to bring attention to "Save the Rhinos". I gave him $5 and had my picture taken. A friend in Seattle also saw him on the Gillman Trail.

It does get your attention.
Slightspeed is offline  
Likes For Slightspeed:
Old 09-21-19, 11:08 PM
  #13  
dayco
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: northern illinois
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 1 Post
I almost exclusively ride the bike trails. I can't enjoy riding a bicycle with motor vehicles buzzing around me. It's just blatantly unsafe and nerve racking. What ever problems I've experienced with riding on bike trails, they pale in comparison to the dangers of a road.

Up until recently, people were generally very friendly and sociable. It seems since all these mass shootings of late, people on the trail seldom say "Good morning" or even want to make eye contact. Most don't even say "On your left" when passing. I ride mostly low density suburban and rural trails.

Still, I'm not alone in loving bike trails. For every cyclist I see anywhere, there are at least ten on a trail to every one I see on a road. Most people apparently prefer not to ride with motor vehicles unless they have to.

Another thing I've noticed lately is an increase number of factory made E-bikes on the trails. I'm not sure how legal they are on trails since most trails are posted "No motor vehicles allowed". They are technically motor powered. They haven't bothered me so far since most of the E-bike riders try to blend in and yield to pedestrians and pedal powered vehicles. They pedal as they go by and then a few hundred feet ahead they quit pedaling. They at least try to put on good 'non-motor-vehicle' show.

Last edited by dayco; 09-21-19 at 11:13 PM.
dayco is offline  
Old 09-21-19, 11:50 PM
  #14  
sumgy
Senior Member
 
sumgy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 738
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 356 Post(s)
Liked 74 Times in 52 Posts
Originally Posted by dayco View Post
I almost exclusively ride the bike trails. I can't enjoy riding a bicycle with motor vehicles buzzing around me. It's just blatantly unsafe and nerve racking. What ever problems I've experienced with riding on bike trails, they pale in comparison to the dangers of a road.

Up until recently, people were generally very friendly and sociable. It seems since all these mass shootings of late, people on the trail seldom say "Good morning" or even want to make eye contact. Most don't even say "On your left" when passing. I ride mostly low density suburban and rural trails.

Still, I'm not alone in loving bike trails. For every cyclist I see anywhere, there are at least ten on a trail to every one I see on a road. Most people apparently prefer not to ride with motor vehicles unless they have to.

Another thing I've noticed lately is an increase number of factory made E-bikes on the trails. I'm not sure how legal they are on trails since most trails are posted "No motor vehicles allowed". They are technically motor powered. They haven't bothered me so far since most of the E-bike riders try to blend in and yield to pedestrians and pedal powered vehicles. They pedal as they go by and then a few hundred feet ahead they quit pedaling. They at least try to put on good 'non-motor-vehicle' show.
Illinois defines e-bikes as a:

Originally Posted by illinoisduilawyerblawg
“low speed electric bicycle” and refers to two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals, a top speed when powered solely by the motor under 20 mph (32 km/h), and an electric motor that produces less than 750 W (1.01 hp).
Originally Posted by illinoisduilawyerblawg
The Illinois law makes clear that the same rules that apply to other bicycles in Illinois also apply to electric bikes. The law also permits a person to operate an electric bike “upon any bicycle path unless the municipality, county, or local authority with jurisdiction prohibits” them on that path. Municipalities in Illinois have the power to create their own separate rules regarding access to streets and highways under their jurisdiction.


https://www.illinoisduilawyerblawg.c...tive-illinois/

Just call out Good Morning or Good Afternoon etc as you pass everyone.

Last edited by unterhausen; 09-22-19 at 12:15 PM. Reason: political content is not allowed in this forum
sumgy is offline  
Old 09-22-19, 12:38 AM
  #15  
bargo68
Senior Member
 
bargo68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Fairfax, California
Posts: 91

Bikes: 2008 Surly Cross Check, 1981 Miyata Gran Touring, 1983 Miyata Ridge Runner, 1997 Serotta Atlanta

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked 43 Times in 29 Posts
Originally Posted by Ross520 View Post
How many MUP deaths do you hear about every year? I can't think of any.
To wit:
Albany California, Ohlone greenway. I ride this stretch twice a day, five times a week. Jus' sayin.

Albany's 1st homicide since 2015: Man dies of gunshot wound at popular Ohlone Greenway - Story | KTVU
bargo68 is offline  
Old 09-22-19, 01:16 AM
  #16  
02Giant 
Home School Valedictorian
 
02Giant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,827

Bikes: 13 Orbea Orca 02 Giant Cypress 88 Mongoose ATB 79 frame-built to 80 spec. Schwinn Traveller

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 899 Post(s)
Liked 77 Times in 55 Posts
Originally Posted by bargo68 View Post
To wit:
Albany California, Ohlone greenway. I ride this stretch twice a day, five times a week. Jus' sayin.

Albany's 1st homicide since 2015: Man dies of gunshot wound at popular Ohlone Greenway - Story | KTVU
I may have missed the part where this was cycling related.
__________________
I ain't broke and I ain't hungry but I'm close enough to care
tp

02Giant is online now  
Old 09-22-19, 05:08 AM
  #17  
livedarklions
Cyclesomatic
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 5,250

Bikes: Trek FX 3; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2699 Post(s)
Liked 1,056 Times in 648 Posts
Most of the MUP complaining I've seen on BF boils down to "omg, I had to slow down or talk to someone.". This isn't rocket science, if you see a dog on or next to the path, slow way down until you can tell whether there's a leash. This stuff is only frustrating if your intention is to ride the entire path like a time trial. I don't know of a single other type of route that will provide you with miles of intersection -free riding in an urban or suburban setting. Having to slow down or stop occasionally is a rather small price to pay for that.

Best interruption I've experienced on a mup was when I had to ride through the sprint practice of a high school track team. The coach basically just worked me into the routine and it was actually quite amusing. He jokingly offered me points for hitting a runner so they'd have incentive to run faster. Way more fun than getting close-passed by a semi.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 09-22-19, 05:15 AM
  #18  
livedarklions
Cyclesomatic
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 5,250

Bikes: Trek FX 3; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2699 Post(s)
Liked 1,056 Times in 648 Posts
Just for accuracy, there was a recent cycle-related fatality on the Minuteman Commuter Path when two cyclists collided, but that is extremely rare. One of the riders was killed by the collision.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 09-22-19, 05:54 AM
  #19  
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 29,431

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1232 Post(s)
Liked 81 Times in 59 Posts
That's the nice thing about the internet. You can interact with other people without having to put up with other people's actions.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
Retro Grouch is online now  
Old 09-22-19, 06:09 AM
  #20  
Champlaincycler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Adirondacks
Posts: 228

Bikes: 2018 Diverge Comp, 2016 Specialized SL4 Comp,

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Not many MUP's around me and I try to avoid them when away, but I accept that a Mup usually means riding a lot slower.

That being said, all the gripes about MUP's reminds me of the old Yogi Berra saying " No one goes there anymore, its too crowded".
Champlaincycler is offline  
Old 09-22-19, 06:30 AM
  #21  
livedarklions
Cyclesomatic
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 5,250

Bikes: Trek FX 3; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2699 Post(s)
Liked 1,056 Times in 648 Posts
Originally Posted by Champlaincycler View Post
Not many MUP's around me and I try to avoid them when away, but I accept that a Mup usually means riding a lot slower.

That being said, all the gripes about MUP's reminds me of the old Yogi Berra saying " No one goes there anymore, its too crowded".
MUPs vary a lot in terms of speed, sometimes by a lot on the same path. There's a stretch at the northern end of the Minuteman, for example, where you can ride at 25 mph for a few miles without any undue risk.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 09-22-19, 07:32 AM
  #22  
Boxkite
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 257

Bikes: old and new

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked 82 Times in 52 Posts
Yesterday, an oncoming older male jogger crossed over into the lane I was riding. I ride on the right side just like as if I was in an automobile. There is painted wording and arrows on the trail giving such instruction. I had seen him a few seconds earlier in 'his' lane so I put my eyes onto the scenery or something. We were the only ones at this location. Next thing I'm getting 'warned' and had to get on the 'wrong' side of the trail. As I went by I just said 'stay on the right' and left it at that. (Pun intended!) To me, that was weird and didn't make any sense. FWIW- I slow way down to pass when an individual group is on the path. I use it as a reason to sprint away! Because of the prevalence of ear buds and portable radios that even I can hear I'm less inclined to say 'I'm gonna pass'. I just creep by and let the FW talk.
Boxkite is offline  
Old 09-22-19, 09:40 AM
  #23  
Miele Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,452

Bikes: Miele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno SL, Miele MTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, VeloSport Adamas AX

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked 109 Times in 81 Posts
Originally Posted by cyclist2000 View Post
Where I get on the MUP near the house, heading north goes right through the city that has lots of people walking, skate boarding and other stuff. I ride to the south where there long stretches of farms or open areas. There are a lot less walkers or activity, except cyclists that direction.
There's a r ail-trail near me that's quite busy from the access parking lots to about 3 kilometers on either side of those access parking lots. Other than there it's not too bad except on t he weekends when the local loco wannabe racers decide to use it for their own private train route and then it's, "Every one look out because we ain't slowing down for you or stopping". I simply avoid that rail-trail one the weekends and especially summer weekends. Seems to me that far too many bicyclists and e-bikers don't understand or maybe just don't care that there are others using that same MUP.

Cheers
Miele Man is online now  
Old 09-22-19, 09:44 AM
  #24  
bargo68
Senior Member
 
bargo68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Fairfax, California
Posts: 91

Bikes: 2008 Surly Cross Check, 1981 Miyata Gran Touring, 1983 Miyata Ridge Runner, 1997 Serotta Atlanta

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked 43 Times in 29 Posts
Originally Posted by 02Giant View Post
I may have missed the part where this was cycling related.
It's not. Just a random act of violence that took place on a MUP. It could have been a cyclist. It is sad that it had to be anybody.

On a positive note, on my way to work on Tuesday I saw a whole preschool being herded down the trail. They were participating in the climate strike and they all had hand painted posters and signs. I gave em all a big thumbs up and there's nothing that puts you in a better mood than a hundred kids screaming and cheering!
bargo68 is offline  
Likes For bargo68:
Old 09-22-19, 09:53 AM
  #25  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 18,732
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 94 Times in 80 Posts
there have been plans for a long rural mup near here that keep getting put off because people don't want the trail across their property fearing that people from State College will come out and cause problems. OTOH, at the other end of the valley there is a rail trail that is widely loved. And I have been on other rural rail trails that are major recreation areas in the communities nearby. It's really sad that people feel this way when the main beneficiary of this kind of trails are the people that live along it. And anyway, the flow of crime is actually the other way around, rural folks come to State College to commit crimes, because it's more of a target rich area. What is going to happen, someone might steal a hay bale?
unterhausen is offline  
Likes For unterhausen:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.